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Futurist Only Babilon

Psalm3704

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I see the Babylon of end times prophecy, as New York. Jeremiah 51:1-32, Isaiah 47:1-15, Revelation 18 really don't fit anywhere else.

Are you sure it's New York? Let's look at the scriptures you're siting. I'm just gonna do Jeremiah 51. Too lazy to check the others.

Jeremiah 51:11 ERV
Sharpen the arrows!
Get your shields!
The Lord has stirred up the kings of the Medes
because he wants to destroy Babylon.
The army from Babylon destroyed his Temple in Jerusalem,
so he will give them the punishment they deserve.

Are you sure it's America that will destroy the temple in the near future?

Jeremiah 51:3-4 ERV
3 The Babylonian soldiers will not get to use their bows and arrows.
They will not even put on their armor.
Don’t feel sorry for the soldiers of Babylon.
Destroy her army completely!
4 Babylon’s soldiers will be killed in the land of the Chaldeans.
They will be badly wounded in the streets of Babylon.”

It said Babylon's soldiers will be kill and wounded in the streets of Babylon.......in the land of the Chaldeans. Are you sure America is the land of the Chaldeans?

Jeremiah 51:29 ERV
The land shakes and moves as if it is in pain.
It will shake when the Lord does to Babylon what he plans—
to make the land of Babylon an empty desert,
a place where no one will live.

It said Babylon is a desert. New York is not a desert.

Jeremiah 51:24 NKJV
“And I will repay Babylon
And all the inhabitants of Chaldea

For all the evil they have done
In Zion in your sight,” says the Lord.

This looks like Babylon is somewhere in the land of Chaldea, not New York.










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Wgw

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I think Babylon in a futurist-prophetic sense is an iconographic depiction of urban corruption, contrasted with Jerusalem, which typographically represents urban virtue, in a sense.

Shifts in water flow caused Babylon or rather Seleucia-Cstesiphon to "migrate" to what is now Baghdad. Which alas is not what it used to be even in the 19th century. I don't regard Babylon as a lost city on a par with, say, Merv or Petra, in that the population basically shifted to a nearby location.
 
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Douggg

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"Left"? Left before what?
Before the little horn emerges out of Europe. The EU is only one step away from it's final form. The idealists over there want a United States of Europe. In their slang, they call it the European Project.
 
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Luke17:37

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As we type, Gog is manipulating his muslim horde to invade and occupy Christian Europe and USA.
This fits into Mystery Babylon's plan to destroy all national borders to create a mixed melting-pot.

In Ezekiel 38:11 [KJV] Gog goes up to the land of unwalled villages... which is quite symbolic of the
muslim hordes' main target, Germany, whose infamous wall separating western and communist Germany
was finally torn-down Nov 9. 1989.



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I believe there is only one Gog/Magog battle after the 1,000 year reign of Jesus (Revelation 20:7-10), which will be established in Jerusalem and will bring peace (Isaiah 2:1-4).
 
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Luke17:37

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Dougg, we are mostly in agreement, the world will be in duress in the last days.
You are right that Armageddon is to fight Jesus, but I see Zechariah 14:1-2, as happening at the mid point of the 7 year peace treaty. Confirmed by Daniel 11:31 and all what happens in Revelation 12.

AlasBabylon, [good name!] Gog will attack a people gathered out of the nations....making their home in the Land at the center of the world. Ezekiel 38:12 This must be the Holy Land, confirmed by how Gog and his army will die on the mountains of Israel.... Ezekiel 39:4

I believe there's only one Gog/Magog battle after the thousand year reign (Revelation 20:7-10), which is headquartered in Jerusalem and characterized by peace (Isaiah 2:1-4).
 
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AlasBabylon

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I believe there is only one Gog/Magog battle after the 1,000 year reign of Jesus (Revelation 20:7-10), which will be established in Jerusalem and will bring peace (Isaiah 2:1-4).


I used to think that was possible [but we may differ as to the location of Jerusalem]... until my prince turned into Gog.

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Luke17:37

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Look in Zechariah 14 as to how people get slain at the time of a great tumult, and then what happens to those
that survive it.

I know about Zechariah 14 but I attribute that to the Battle of Armageddon at the Return of Christ.
 
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AlasBabylon

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I believe there is only one Gog/Magog battle after the 1,000 year reign of Jesus (Revelation 20:7-10), which will be established in Jerusalem and will bring peace (Isaiah 2:1-4).


The 1000 years ruling with Christ is symbolic, not literal.
Christians ruling in Christ's righteousness.

There is no way evil runs amok once Christ has literally returned to earth...
and especially not after 1000 years of Christ literally ruling on earth !

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Luke17:37

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The 1000 years ruling with Christ is symbolic, not literal.
Christians ruling in Christ's righteousness.

There is no way evil runs amok once Christ has literally returned to earth...
and especially not after 1000 years of Christ literally ruling on earth !

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I just reread your post. Somehow I missed "especially not after 1000 years of Christ literally ruling on earth!" But that's what the Bible says - that Satan will released to deceive the nations, and be successful in deceiving some. Consider how Adam and Eve lived in Eden and they still rebelled. Even though Satan would be bound for a thousand years, sons and daughters or Adam are still sinners so can sin can exist even without outside temptation. Wickedness comes from the heart (Matthew 15:18-19, Jeremiah 17:9). (And Satan would be released to lead the Gog/Magog rebellion.)
 
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Luke17:37

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Zechariah 5:5-11 does not necessarily call for a revived empire in the historical land of Babylon.

Isaiah 13 seems to see Babylon mostly as a united people who are anti-Christ (see Isaiah 13:4).

The Babylon in Revelation is described as "Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots and of the Abominations of the Earth." Since it's a mystery, I don't think it's going to come with the name "Babylon" or arise out of the same footprint in the Middle East. I do believe there will be a kingdom associated with it (Revelation 13:1-2).
 
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AlasBabylon

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I just reread your post. Somehow I missed "especially not after 1000 years of Christ literally ruling on earth!" But that's what the Bible says


The 1000 years is God's People, Christians, symbolically "ruling with Christ"... that is... in Christ's righteousness...
it is the same as the national resurrection in Ezekiel 37.. when God gathers and unifies His people... and they
are unified and they rule in the righteousness of Christ. None of this is God returning and literally ruling.
Unless you want to believe that God can literally rule the earth for a 1000 years then evil can arise and upset
God's applecart... no thanks... that is not the God of Israel I serve.

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Luke17:37

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The 1000 years is God's People, Christians, symbolically "ruling with Christ"... that is... in Christ's righteousness...
it is the same as the national resurrection in Ezekiel 37.. when God gathers and unifies His people... and they
are unified and they rule in the righteousness of Christ. None of this is God returning and literally ruling.
Unless you want to believe that God can literally rule the earth for a 1000 years then evil can arise and upset
God's applecart... no thanks... that is not the God of Israel I serve.

.

I worship God as He reveals Himself. And I suggest you do the same. It's not God's fault that men rebel.
 
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AlasBabylon

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. (And Satan would be released to lead the Gog/Magog rebellion.)


Satanic antichrists have been released and they have worked overtime to subvert and pervert
and destroy all Christian nations... and now that they have weakened their Christian enemy...
they have already sent their antichrist hordes into every Christian nation to finally destroy it....
the Gog invasion and war is happening now... except God's people are not fighting against Gog
because like you and most other Christians, they don't realize it is happening NOW... that is why
fire from heaven and Christ's second coming can come at any time.


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Luke17:37

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Satanic antichrists have been released and they have worked overtime to subvert and pervert
and destroy all Christian nations... and now that they have weakened their Christian enemy...
they have already sent their antichrist hordes into every Christian nation to finally destroy it....
the Gog invasion and war is happening now... except God's people are not fighting against Gog
because like you and most other Christians, they don't realize it is happening NOW... that is why
fire from heaven and Christ's second coming can come at any time.


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Jesus' second coming cannot come until the revealing of the man of sin and the great apostasy (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3).

I agree that many people are deceived about the Scriptures, times, etc., and unless they wake up, they are in great danger of being one of the permanently deceived. I don't think the great apostasy is here yet, but the foundation has certainly been established (2 Peter 3:3-9).

I don't see a "man of sin" yet - at least, not one who has distinguished himself enough for me to be certain of his identity.

We obviously have a very different view of Bible prophecy.
 
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AlasBabylon

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Jesus' second coming cannot come until the revealing of the man of sin and the great apostasy (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3).


Oh boy... well... you tell Jesus that all the vile perverted abominations happening today are not evil enough for you
and your imaginary "THE Antichrist" demi-god has not arrived yet... so Jesus will just have to wait until you say it's time.

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Luke17:37

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Oh boy... well... you tell Jesus that all the vile perverted abominations happening today are not evil enough for you
and your imaginary "THE Antichrist" demi-god has not arrived yet... so Jesus will just have to wait until you say it's time.

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You sound a little angry. I did not write the Bible - Jesus did. If I can't take 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 literally - a passage to provide perspective to the Church on what to expect - what of the Bible can I trust? I am not the one who said, "And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?” (Luke 18:7-8).

I take a literal approach to most of Scripture/prophecy. You probably saw that if you read my Bible study about the Taken, the Carcasses and the Vultures.
 
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Luke17:37

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Those who don't understand the "great apostasy" is already here... are part of it.

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It is true that most people I talk to today do not put up with sound doctrine. I can see how you would call this "apostasy." However, by definition, apostasy is willfully turning away from the faith - that is, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12:31-32, Hebrews 6, Revelation 14:9-11).

Matthew 24:9–13 (NKJV)
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
 
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