Av

[TheReasoner]

AV, you did not answer my question. Please do.

Are the poor to blame for their own poverty?

 

[Jazer]

AV, you did not answer my question. Please do.

Are the poor to blame for their own poverty?

It depends on how you define poverty. We are told by Moses that we choose between blessing or curse: "I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;". Clearly prosperity is a blessing from God. The Bible is filled with promises from God, if we do out part, we can be sure He will do His part of the promise.

 

[TheReasoner]

It depends on how you define poverty. We are told by Moses that we choose between blessing or curse: "I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;". Clearly prosperity is a blessing from God. The Bible is filled with promises from God, if we do out part, we can be sure He will do His part of the promise.

Material wealth Jazer?
The bible does not promise us material wealth. Au contraire!

Prosperity is a blessing from God yes. Spiritual prosperity. Material wealth, well... You cannot worship both God and Mammon.

YouTube - John Piper and the Prosperity Gospel

The question was for AV though.

 

[Jazer]

Material wealth.

As in name it and claim it, blab it and grab it? Is there a hook in your bait The Bible says that God will not deny us any good thing. He seems to know better then we do what is good and what is not good. Money can get you into sin pretty quick and a lot of money can get you into a lot of sin. Drinking, drugs, prostitution, gambling and so on. How many rock stars have lost control and ended up dead? Look at Charlie Sheen, clearly a case of someone that has more money then they are mature enough to handle.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

As in name it and claim it, blab it and grab it? Is there a hook in your bait The Bible says that God will not deny us any good thing. He seems to know better then we do what is good and what is not good. Money can get you into sin pretty quick and a lot of money can get you into a lot of sin. Drinking, drugs, prostitution, gambling and so on. How many rock stars have lost control and ended up dead? Look at Charlie Sheen, clearly a case of someone that has more money then they are mature enough to handle.

The prosperity gospel portrays Jesus as a capitalist. I think it's completely off-base, and used by rich Christians to justify ignoring the one thing Jesus said never to ignore - the poor. The prosperity gospel is all about greed. I thought greed was a sin.

 

[AV1611VET]

Matthew 26:11 For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.

 

[TheReasoner]

Matthew 26:11 For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.

That is not an answer AV.
Why will they always be around? Is it because they are lazy?

 

[TheReasoner]

As in name it and claim it, blab it and grab it? Is there a hook in your bait The Bible says that God will not deny us any good thing. He seems to know better then we do what is good and what is not good. Money can get you into sin pretty quick and a lot of money can get you into a lot of sin. Drinking, drugs, prostitution, gambling and so on. How many rock stars have lost control and ended up dead? Look at Charlie Sheen, clearly a case of someone that has more money then they are mature enough to handle.

A good answer I think

Money corrupts very easily. Yeah some few times God entrusts someone with a lot of it. But I do not consider it a blessing but a serious responsibility if that happens. Not an excuse to consume but a command and empowering to bless and help. Most who come by large amounts of money do so by inheritance or by way of sharp elbows. Which I do not consider good.

By the way, do you know who the most Christ-like loving people I have ever met were?
A couple of families in extreme poverty. One of these had two severely handicapped children, lived in a heavily crime infested area, no electricity or running water and dirt hut to top it off. They had nothing. They both had a love and radiated a deep inner peace unlike anything I have ever seen. Richer than me by far - in terms of God's spiritual gifts, His presence, faith and even hope.

It was humbling and marvelous.

The prosperity gospel portrays Jesus as a capitalist. I think it's completely off-base, and used by rich Christians to justify ignoring the one thing Jesus said never to ignore - the poor. The prosperity gospel is all about greed. I thought greed was a sin.

A bad one. Look at how Jesus approached that sin in Matthew 23 and 25 for example. Or in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.
Personally I consider the prosperity gospel to be idolatry and heresy.

 

[AV1611VET]

That is not an answer AV.
Why will they always be around? Is it because they are lazy?

I'm not going to argue with you about this, Faith Guardian.

I don't know if they're lazy or not -- they seem pretty industrious to me.

Either the government, or they themselves refuse to eat these cows, and will starve to death with a cow in the vicinity.

Like I said, if I went over there and barbecued one of their cows on the 4th of July, I would probably be escorted out (or worse) by the police or the religious zealots -- one or the other.

In my opinion.

 

[TheReasoner]

I'm not going to argue with you about this, Faith Guardian.

I don't know if they're lazy or not -- they seem pretty industrious to me.

Either the government, or they themselves refuse to eat these cows, and will starve to death with a cow in the vicinity.

Like I said, if I went over there and barbecued one of their cows on the 4th of July, I would probably be escorted out (or worse) by the police or the religious zealots -- one or the other.

In my opinion.

There are poor outside India you know. Thank you for answering though. Glad you didn't say 'yes'. Hope you don't think so either. Yes, they are often industrious. In fact at times they are literally worked until they die or are physically ruined - blind, sick and/or otherwise broken. Many industrialists get them hooked on drugs or alcohol to keep them satiated and less aware of the ongoing abuse. Some even use soldiers and mercenaries to keep them in line with terror.

In fact many of the products we use every day are likely made in facilities wherein this happens to one degree or another.
Lazy? No. Not lazy. Some are, of course. Like some rich are. But only a few.

As for the cows, eating them would not be wise. Animals such as them are not a very good food source in terms of how much resources they require to grow. Furthermore they provide milk and dung which in turn can be burned and limit deforestation somewhat. Plus when they do die I am told they are eaten, plus the hide bones and everything useful is used for something. Hespera might correct me if I am mistaken. Maybe she knows more than me

We could have had them all eat the cows. Satiating (some of) their hunger right now. But then they would be gone and the resources they provide would be gone. Then what?

 

[AV1611VET]

We could have had them all eat the cows. Satiating (some of) their hunger right now. But then they would be gone and the resources they provide would be gone. Then what?

I don't believe this one bit.

As I said before, they need Jesus Christ, then they will flourish as a nation.

They have the resources -- (I think) -- just not the right infrastructure.

(Way to take the emphasis off of Gandhi.)

 

[Hespera]

There are poor outside India you know. Thank you for answering though. Glad you didn't say 'yes'. Hope you don't think so either. Yes, they are often industrious. In fact at times they are literally worked until they die or are physically ruined - blind, sick and/or otherwise broken. Many industrialists get them hooked on drugs or alcohol to keep them satiated and less aware of the ongoing abuse. Some even use soldiers and mercenaries to keep them in line with terror.

In fact many of the products we use every day are likely made in facilities wherein this happens to one degree or another.
Lazy? No. Not lazy. Some are, of course. Like some rich are. But only a few.

As for the cows, eating them would not be wise. Animals such as them are not a very good food source in terms of how much resources they require to grow. Furthermore they provide milk and dung which in turn can be burned and limit deforestation somewhat. Plus when they do die I am told they are eaten, plus the hide bones and everything useful is used for something. Hespera might correct me if I am mistaken. Maybe she knows more than me

We could have had them all eat the cows. Satiating (some of) their hunger right now. But then they would be gone and the resources they provide would be gone. Then what?

Then what? There will never be an end to the reasons why westerners and their reilgion are superior to them cow worshippers who wont convert.

 

[TheReasoner]

I don't believe this one bit.

As I said before, they need Jesus Christ, then they will flourish as a nation.

They have the resources -- (I think) -- just not the right infrastructure.

(Way to take the emphasis off of Gandhi.)

Well. In many cases we have their resources AV.
And if Jesus is the reason for prosperity why is Latin America poor? Almost all are Christians there.
One reason is that europe and the us are taking the resources and corrupting the politicians.

As for cows, they require much to grow. Plants can grow faster while requiring much less energy to reach maturity. Also they are cheaper and more reliable to keep. One cow produces as much waste water as 16 people and eats much more than humans, too. If you look at it eating cows is not too smart, energy budget or pollution wise. In fact it's mighty stupid really.

Are there enough resources? Yes. Often rotting here and in the US. We consume more than we need and they don't get enough. In part because of us. Not only because of us, but in part.

 

[TheReasoner]

Then what? There will never be an end to the reasons why westerners and their reilgion are superior to them cow worshippers who wont convert.

Ethnocentrism under a religious guise is a terrible thing. Well, all ethnocentrism is.

 

[AV1611VET]

Well. In many cases we have their resources AV.
And if Jesus is the reason for prosperity why is Latin America poor? Almost all are Christians there.
One reason is that europe and the us are taking the resources and corrupting the politicians.

As for cows, they require much to grow. Plants can grow faster while requiring much less energy to reach maturity. Also they are cheaper and more reliable to keep. One cow produces as much waste water as 16 people and eats much more than humans, too. If you look at it eating cows is not too smart, energy budget or pollution wise. In fact it's mighty stupid really.

Are there enough resources? Yes. Often rotting here and in the US. We consume more than we need and they don't get enough. In part because of us. Not only because of us, but in part.

Are you trying to make some kind of point?

What does this have to do with Gandhi and his ilk?

We're talking about people starving to death with cows nearby, for crying out loud.

-- Mamma mia.

 

[TheReasoner]

Are you trying to make some kind of point?

What does this have to do with Gandhi and his ilk?

We're talking about people starving to death with cows nearby, for crying out loud.

-- Mamma mia.

Okay AV. Let me simplify.

Say you have a starving village. They have a tiny food source and a shed of seeds for planting next spring. You can fill most of their bellies, though not all, with the seeds. But if you do you will have no crop next fall.
Do you distribute the seeds?

 

[AV1611VET]

 

[TheReasoner]

Okay AV. Let me simplify.

Say you have a starving village. They have a tiny food source and a shed of seeds for planting next spring. You can fill most of their bellies, though not all, with the seeds. But if you do you will have no crop next fall.
Do you distribute the seeds?

Well, do you?

 

[Hespera]

Okay AV. Let me simplify.

Say you have a starving village. They have a tiny food source and a shed of seeds for planting next spring. You can fill most of their bellies, though not all, with the seeds. But if you do you will have no crop next fall.
Do you distribute the seeds?

Well why not eat any of the people who die? ll its just some sort of religious rubbish not to.

I mean, nobody in their right mind ever holds some religious value above material things.

Ask any Christian martyr about that.

 

[Saving Hawaii]

Okay AV. Let me simplify.

Say you have a starving village. They have a tiny food source and a shed of seeds for planting next spring. You can fill most of their bellies, though not all, with the seeds. But if you do you will have no crop next fall.
Do you distribute the seeds?

What would Nikolai Vavilov do?