Auxillary Bishops

[Dorothea]

Does anybody else find this somewhat bothersome? Or is it just me being picky? I think assistants to the bishops should be clergymen lower in the hierarchal line, not a fellow bishop subordinated to such a position. Am I being a jerk for thinking this?

This came up because my bishop (who's 90 or a few years older than that) is getting an auxiliary bishop, which I understand that he's old and probably will retire soon. If the "auxiliary" bishop is the next in line to assume Met. Isaiah's spot, I guess I can see that. I admit, I'm a bit nervous who will eventually take his place.

Is that how it works at times with auxiliary bishops, Fr. Matt?

 

[seashale76]

I admit to being confused regarding them too. I remember when the Antiochian bishops were suddenly demoted to auxillary bishops. All of them thought otherwise before Met. Phillip tried to eject Bishop Mark to Alaska. All of the bishops were unaware that they were auxillary bishops. Everyone had been under the impression that the Patriarchate was going to change the constitution to reflect that years before- and they were all told this- but it never actually happened. There was a time in the immediate aftermath of this kerfluffle when parishes were forbidden to commemorate their bishops- only the Metropolitan. The last priest we had was moved to a new parish by the Metropolitan and knew about it before his 'auxillary bishop'.

 

[Dorothea]

I admit to being confused regarding them too. I remember when the Antiochian bishops were suddenly demoted to auxillary bishops. All of them thought otherwise before Met. Phillip tried to eject Bishop Mark to Alaska. All of the bishops were unaware that they were auxillary bishops. Everyone had been under the impression that the Patriarchate was going to change the constitution to reflect that years before- and they were all told this- but it never actually happened. There was a time in the immediate aftermath of this kerfluffle when parishes were forbidden to commemorate their bishops- only the Metropolitan. The last priest we had was moved to a new parish by the Metropolitan and knew about it before his 'auxillary bishop'.

I hadn't heard about that, or vaguely remember that in the Antiochian Church, but it bothers me. Doesn't seem right. Just how I feel.

 

[Dewi Sant]

*following

this is something which confuses me too.
The bishop is the unity of the diocese, suffragans and Auxillary bishops seem to complicate that.
I don’t know if there’s an Orthodox equivalent, but Arch-Deacon is the office for an episcopal assistant in Anglicanism.

 

[rusmeister]

They’re there for when the warped bishops and impulsive bishops fail to hold the line.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Does anybody else find this somewhat bothersome? Or is it just me being picky? I think assistants to the bishops should be clergymen lower in the hierarchal line, not a fellow bishop subordinated to such a position. Am I being a jerk for thinking this?

This came up because my bishop (who's 90 or a few years older than that) is getting an auxiliary bishop, which I understand that he's old and probably will retire soon. If the "auxiliary" bishop is the next in line to assume Met. Isaiah's spot, I guess I can see that. I admit, I'm a bit nervous who will eventually take his place.

Is that how it works at times with auxiliary bishops, Fr. Matt?

I always heard they help the bishop do the work of a bishop (ordinations, parish visits, consecrations, etc) when the ruling bishop needs help due to age or the size of the diocese or whatever.

 

[ArmyMatt]

They’re there for when the warped bishops and impulsive bishops fail to hold the line.

no

 

[archer75]

They’re there for when the warped bishops and impulsive bishops fail to hold the line.

Is this really their purpose? I have never heard of this.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Is this really their purpose? I have never heard of this.

it’s not, that’s the job of every bishop, not just an auxiliary.

 

[rusmeister]

A Star Trek joke goes over people's heads.
It was too obscure, I suppose.

 

[ArmyMatt]

A Star Trek joke goes over people's heads.
It was too obscure, I suppose.

sorry, rus. totally over my head. apologies.

 

[E.C.]

Does anybody else find this somewhat bothersome? Or is it just me being picky? I think assistants to the bishops should be clergymen lower in the hierarchal line, not a fellow bishop subordinated to such a position. Am I being a jerk for thinking this?

I do find it bothersome with how they're used in this country, especially by the Greeks and Antiochians, but it does work in some areas. For example, while Patriarch Porfirije of Serbia may be Metropolitan of Belgrade, etc; he does have a vicar bishop that does help oversee his immediate area of Belgrade while he carries out his patriarchal duties.

The Greeks seem to use auxiliary bishops to pack the court with Phanar loyalists and the Antiochians subordinated their bishops to the metropolitan making their metropolitan more like a mini-Orthodox pope-like figure.

The OCA's auxiliary bishops can actually make decisions however they've ironed that out with their diocesan bishop. For example, the Romanian Episcopate of the OCA is actually pretty big and I wouldn't be surprised if Archbishop Nathaniel and Bishop Andrieu have an agreement on the roles, duties, and responsibilities betwen them.

I admit to being confused regarding them too. I remember when the Antiochian bishops were suddenly demoted to auxillary bishops. All of them thought otherwise before Met. Phillip tried to eject Bishop Mark to Alaska. All of the bishops were unaware that they were auxillary bishops. Everyone had been under the impression that the Patriarchate was going to change the constitution to reflect that years before- and they were all told this- but it never actually happened. There was a time in the immediate aftermath of this kerfluffle when parishes were forbidden to commemorate their bishops- only the Metropolitan. The last priest we had was moved to a new parish by the Metropolitan and knew about it before his 'auxillary bishop'.

I remember that and it became one of many reasons that if I were to become a priest it would not be with the Antiochians. So long as Metropolitan Philip was able to bribe Antioch with million dollar donations to Balamand the patriarch and Synod of Antioch suddenly found ways to justify his moves. That's also how he ensured the spiritual court regarding Ben Lomond went the way he wanted. I have little doubt that Metropolitan Joseph has continued this tactic.

 

[archer75]

A Star Trek joke goes over people's heads.
It was too obscure, I suppose.

Definitely missed it.

 

[Dorothea]

They’re there for when the warped bishops and impulsive bishops fail to hold the line.

But Met. Isaiah is a solid, good bishop.

 

[Dorothea]

I always heard they help the bishop do the work of a bishop (ordinations, parish visits, consecrations, etc) when the ruling bishop needs help due to age or the size of the diocese or whatever.

Ah, okay. I thought it may be because Met. Isaiah is old, so that makes more sense. Thanks, Father.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Ah, okay. I thought it may be because Met. Isaiah is old, so that makes more sense. Thanks, Father.

no problem!

 

[Dorothea]

I do find it bothersome with how they're used in this country, especially by the Greeks and Antiochians, but it does work in some areas. For example, while Patriarch Porfirije of Serbia may be Metropolitan of Belgrade, etc; he does have a vicar bishop that does help oversee his immediate area of Belgrade while he carries out his patriarchal duties.

The Greeks seem to use auxiliary bishops to pack the court with Phanar loyalists and the Antiochians subordinated their bishops to the metropolitan making their metropolitan more like a mini-Orthodox pope-like figure.

The OCA's auxiliary bishops can actually make decisions however they've ironed that out with their diocesan bishop. For example, the Romanian Episcopate of the OCA is actually pretty big and I wouldn't be surprised if Archbishop Nathaniel and Bishop Andrieu have an agreement on the roles, duties, and responsibilities betwen them.


I remember that and it became one of many reasons that if I were to become a priest it would not be with the Antiochians. So long as Metropolitan Philip was able to bribe Antioch with million dollar donations to Balamand the patriarch and Synod of Antioch suddenly found ways to justify his moves. That's also how he ensured the spiritual court regarding Ben Lomond went the way he wanted. I have little doubt that Metropolitan Joseph has continued this tactic.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Ioustinos]

But Met. Isaiah is a solid, good bishop.

Metropolitan Isaiah is a great bishop. You can tell by the growth of the parishes under him and the caliber of clergy that serve him.

I used to live in Denver and attended Sts. Peter and Paul out in Boulder. I think they are giving help to Metropolitan Isaiah since, although he is active, is advanced in years. I am familiar with some priests that have served with Father Constantine Moralis and I think he will be a good fit in the Metropolis of Denver. Only time will tell, but from what I have seen he fits the "spirit" of the Denver metropolis.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Metropolitan Isaiah is a great bishop. You can tell by the growth of the parishes under him and the caliber of clergy that serve him.

I used to live in Denver and attended Sts. Peter and Paul out in Boulder. I think they are giving help to Metropolitan Isaiah since, although he is active, is advanced in years. I am familiar with some priests that have served with Father Constantine Moralis and I think he will be a good fit in the Metropolis of Denver. Only time will tell, but from what I have seen he fits the "spirit" of the Denver metropolis.

I have heard nothing but good stuff about Met Isaiah.

 

[Dorothea]

Metropolitan Isaiah is a great bishop. You can tell by the growth of the parishes under him and the caliber of clergy that serve him.

I used to live in Denver and attended Sts. Peter and Paul out in Boulder. I think they are giving help to Metropolitan Isaiah since, although he is active, is advanced in years. I am familiar with some priests that have served with Father Constantine Moralis and I think he will be a good fit in the Metropolis of Denver. Only time will tell, but from what I have seen he fits the "spirit" of the Denver metropolis.

Ah. I've been to your former parish in Boulder several years ago when Dr. Maria Khoury spoke. Thanks for sharing this. It's good to know!