Autism and Vaccines Researcher for CDC, Indicted for Fraud and Money-Laundering

[Lion Hearted Man]

Then basically were vaccinating kids against a disease thats rarely serious or fatal. Even in the most recent outbreaks over the last 10 years I can't remember one never vaccinated kid that died from it.

In 2008, there were 18 deaths due to measles every hour (most were children under 5).

And measles actually has benefits:
Several medical studies have shown that these diseases prime and mature the immune system, thereby lowering the risk of serious diseases such asthma and ovarian cancer later in life.

Post the studies. I will only accept peer-reviewed papers on PubMed.

But just like all vaccines the MMR vaccine has side effects:
MMR vaccine VAERS reports 7 deaths per year (1990-1994):
"From July 1990 thro' April 1994, 5799 ADRs following MMR vaccination were reported to US Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS); including 3063 cases requiring emergency medical treatment, 616 hospitalisations, 309 who did not recover, 54 children left disabled and 30 deaths."--- John P Heptonstall

7 dears per year vs. 18 deaths per hour in unvaccinated countries...I know what I'd pick!

Numerous medical reports published in prestigious medical journals have cited major complications resulting from the MMR vaccine, including retardation, chronic seizures, inflammatory bowel disease, hearing loss, chronic arthritis, encephalitis and aseptic meningitis.
MMR vaccines adverse reactions citations

In 1999, New Jersey Medical School researchers found abnormally high titers of anti-measles antibodies in autistic children. They concluded that the MMR vaccine may cause chronic over-activation of the immune system, leading to brain and nervous system damage

We're trading measles for cancer, asthma, allergies, weakened immune systems, Autism, etc....

There is no evidence that the measles vaccine has caused cancer, asthma, allergies, weakenend immune systems, or Autism. Your standards for evidence for the things you want to believe are considerably lower than for the things you don't want to believe. And I like how you essentially blew off my argument that the vaccine lowered the morbidity of measles.

 

[MattRose]

GodBethEGlory you still aren't comparing not vaccinating anyone to vaccinating everyone. Don't you think there is a clear benefit to one of these options?

 

[GodbetheGlory]

In UK, from 1998 to 2007 (as of 24th November), there were 28,364 cases of measles.
Out of the 12 deaths from 1998 - 2007, one is known not to be measles, one is provisional, 2 were immunodeficient children within the age where vaccines are administered, and the other 8 were older deaths resulting from infections contracted prior to 1967. From the years of 1998 – 2007, the risk of any unimmunized child dying from ACUTE measles was as follows:
immunodeficient children = one per 14,182 cases of measles; healthy normal children = 0 out of 28,364.
Any suggestion that in 2008, the risk of any child dying of acute measles is 1 in 2,000 is another fictional statistical manipulation, in the same vein as: “in order for the risk/benefit equation to be tipped in favour of leaving children unvaccinated against MMR, there would need to have been more than 7500 deaths from MMR in the last 10 years.” -----Hilary Butler [Letters BMJ Becoming Ben Oct 2008]

A heathy unvaccinated child in a first world nation like the UK or USA is not going to die from measles. Yet kids do die from the MMR vaccine.

Enough Said!

 

[GodbetheGlory]

1.Viera Scheibner, Vaccination, 1993, p. xx, p. 97; West, 1966; Cancer 1966; Lancet 1985; (re: asthma prevention: Lancet 1996, 1999).

Measles, mumps and/or rubella (three day measles) are rarely serious childhood diseases. All three confer lifelong immunity to healthy, well-nourished children. Several medical studies have shown that these diseases prime and mature the immune system, thereby lowering the risk of serious diseases such asthma and ovarian cancer later in life

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

PubMed, please. No more whale.to.

 

[Ar Cosc]

GodbetheGlory, whale.to can't be taken as a credible source when it makes outlandish claims like psychics are being deliberately killed with cancer by the government to make more people atheist.

Edit: and this classic:

Stevo's whale friend said yes, that's the goal. In his words: "They, the Illuminati, have always feared the humans linking with the cetaceans like this in etheric battle; they knew it would be their undoing. This is why our navy has been genociding whales and dolphins for years."

http://www.whale.to/b/dolphins_h.html

 

[GodbetheGlory]

Can you disprove the statistic? That healthy non-vaccinated kids in 1st world nations are not dying from the measles like you are implying....

 

[Gishin]

Can you disprove the statistic? That healthy non-vaccinated kids in 1st world nations are not dying from the measles like you are implying....

Don't need to, the statistic is irrelevant to the total safety of vaccines, especially when you add such specific caveats to it.

Are you part of the deadly psychic dolphin alliance?

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

Don't need to, the statistic is irrelevant to the total safety of vaccines, especially when you add such specific caveats to it.

Are you part of the deadly psychic dolphin alliance?

Psychic dolphins tried to stop funding for the smallpox vaccine back in the day...maybe that's what's going on here...it all makes sense!!

 

[GodbetheGlory]

GodBethEGlory you still aren't comparing not vaccinating anyone to vaccinating everyone. Don't you think there is a clear benefit to one of these options?

There's a clear benefit to non-vaccinating.
Is there a satistic you'd like me to show you? Or a question you have?

 

[GodbetheGlory]

There is no evidence that the measles vaccine has caused cancer, asthma, allergies, weakenend immune systems, or Autism. Your standards for evidence for the things you want to believe are considerably lower than for the things you don't want to believe. And I like how you essentially blew off my argument that the vaccine lowered the morbidity of measles.

Yes there is. There's a direct correlation between increased vaccines and these rise diseases. Countries that do less vaccines have lower rates of these diseases while countries with more vaccines have higher rates. As we increase our rates of vaccines we also see and increase in these diseases. Some of these diseases (if not all) were virtually non-existent prior to vaccines, both in the USA and in out countries that didnt have vaccines. But now that every country in the world is being vaccinated we're seeing these diseases everywhere.
There's also evidence that some of the vaccines had cancer causing viruses, such as the polio vaccines in the 1960's:
Vaccine scandal revives cancer fear - 07 July 2004 - New Scientist

Then we have studies:
Salzburger Elternstudie (Survey of / by parents) (2001-2005) Results: Unvaccinated children -- virtually no asthma; vaccinated 1 in 10; and three to five times less Neurodermatis.......Englische Kohortenstudie (1988 - 1999) Results: Vaccinated children are up to 14 times more likely to have asthma than the unvaccinated and up to nine times more like to have skin problems. ......Langzeitstudie in Guinea-Bissau: [May 2005 Germany] Who is healthier, the vaccinated or the unvaccinated?!

Quotes from people who have been around vaccines:
Vaccines and suppression of eczema in many cases from vaccination is where we need to look. When I was a nurse in pediatrics from 1971 - 1974 we had 2 children who would come into the hospital from time to time in my 2.5 years on a pediatric, 6-20 year old unit From 1974 - 1978 I worked in a pediatric office practice as nurse office manager - a busy one with 4 peds - one of the busiest in the city - we had only 1 child that I can remember having asthma - ONE!!!!!!!! Vaccines at that time were DPT, oral polio, MMR or just measles and rubella vax for some....we saw many many ear infections at 3 months and beyond after vaccines started and many many antibiotics we say not as much eczema as I am seeing today and therefore not as much suppression with steroids (which results in suppression of the skin condition and development of the deeper lung condition of asthma) NOW add Hep B at birth and more; hep a, Prevnar (9-strain vaccine), HIB, chickenpox vaccine --Voila!-----Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA

Then there's the thousands of parents who are speaking out because their once healthy child went in for a vaccine then within hours or days started displaying autistic symptoms.

In a court all this would be considered evidence. So yes we do have evidence.

The question is just how much do vaccines effect these diseases?, we don't know.


Yes i did answer your question. The measles vaccines may have reduced the cases of measles. But what did that accomplish since healthy non-vaccinated kids don't die from measles but kids do die and get injured by the MMR vaccine.

 

[MattRose]

Yes there is. There's a direct correlation between increased vaccines and these rise diseases. Countries that do less vaccines have lower rates of these diseases while countries with more vaccines have higher rates. As we increase our rates of vaccines we also see and increase in these diseases. Some of these diseases (if not all) were virtually non-existent prior to vaccines, both in the USA and in out countries that didnt have vaccines. But now that every country in the world is being vaccinated we're seeing these diseases everywhere.
There's also evidence that some of the vaccines had cancer causing viruses, such as the polio vaccines in the 1960's:

Isn't there a more obvious reason as to why "...we increase our rates of vaccines we also see and [sic] increase in these diseases"?

Maybe this increase in disease detection is due to more medical care available in the country. How many bushmen living in grass huts on the plains of Africa are reporting cases of autism to the CDC? Do you think the medical personnel in nations who don't have the ability to vaccinate is somehow able to diagnose the diseases your link mentioned?

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

Then there's the thousands of parents who are speaking out because their once healthy child went in for a vaccine then within hours or days started displaying autistic symptoms.

In a court all this would be considered evidence. So yes we do have evidence.

The question is just how much do vaccines effect these diseases?, we don't know.


Yes i did answer your question. The measles vaccines may have reduced the cases of measles. But what did that accomplish since healthy non-vaccinated kids don't die from measles but kids do die and get injured by the MMR vaccine.

Show the peer-reviewed papers that back up what you say. If you don't have peer-reviewed papers, you have nothing but conjecture. This is how science works. If you want to demonstrate something, you do a study, control for the variable, do a statistical analysis, and have it reviewed by your peers to ensure it is a good study. You don't have any of that, though. It's all anecdotal. If you really had evidence, you'd be posting links to PubMed articles, not whale.to nonsense.

 

[GodbetheGlory]

Show the peer-reviewed papers that back up what you say. If you don't have peer-reviewed papers, you have nothing but conjecture. This is how science works. If you want to demonstrate something, you do a study, control for the variable, do a statistical analysis, and have it reviewed by your peers to ensure it is a good study. You don't have any of that, though. It's all anecdotal. If you really had evidence, you'd be posting links to PubMed articles, not whale.to nonsense.

I'm sorry but that's not how reality works. You have to look at all aspects of something not just one study (and I have posted studies). As we see from the topic of this thread studies can be bought to say one thing only to turn out to be fraud. If all you do is go by the latest so-called "study" and ignore everything else then you've lost touch with reality.

 

[GodbetheGlory]

Isn't there a more obvious reason as to why "...we increase our rates of vaccines we also see and [sic] increase in these diseases"?

Maybe this increase in disease detection is due to more medical care available in the country. How many bushmen living in grass huts on the plains of Africa are reporting cases of autism to the CDC? Do you think the medical personnel in nations who don't have the ability to vaccinate is somehow able to diagnose the diseases your link mentioned?

Africa isnt exactly a country of nothing but grass huts and wild tribes. Although poorer then the USA they still have Goverments, Hospitals, Doctors, etc.

And even if we only compare the USA over the last 40 years we can see that the rates of these disease (allergies, asthma, cancer, autism, etc.) have increased as we've increased the number of vaccines. And as we add new vaccines we see new allergies appear:

"Most children will not experience any reaction to their vaccinations yet their immune systems may be set up to react to peanut protein, for example, in the future. From some research I found, it appears that the advent of the Hib vaccine (Haemophilus influenza type B) in the early 1990’s in the USA and in 2001 in Sweden (and various dates in other countries) has created high rates of peanut allergy regardless of peanut consumption. In countries such as China and Indonesia, where large quantities of peanuts are eaten, but the Hib vaccine is not routinely given, peanut allergies are almost non-existent. Could there be a link between the Hib vaccine and peanut allergies?"

"Another study published in “Epidemiology” in 1997 followed 1265 children born in 1977 to determine if infant immunization is a risk factor for childhood asthma or allergy. The 23 children in the study who received no DPT and polio immunizations had no recorded asthma episodes or consultations for asthma or other allergic illness before the age of 10 years; in the immunized children, 23.1% had asthma episodes, 22.5% asthma consultations and 30% consultations for other allergic illness. Of course, other factors could be at play also. Yet, this study does make me question the possible link!"
Possible Causes of Food Allergy

 

[GodbetheGlory]

Show the peer-reviewed papers that back up what you say. If you don't have peer-reviewed papers, you have nothing but conjecture. This is how science works. If you want to demonstrate something, you do a study, control for the variable, do a statistical analysis, and have it reviewed by your peers to ensure it is a good study. You don't have any of that, though. It's all anecdotal. If you really had evidence, you'd be posting links to PubMed articles, not whale.to nonsense.

Vijendra K. Singh, a scientist at the Utah State University, published a conclusive study in 2001 confirming that MMR-vaccinated children have abnormally high levels of measles virus antibodies, indicating that autism may be a neuro-immune response to the vaccine. Singh found auto-antibodies in 80% of autistic children while normal children had none. These auto-antibodies apparently attack the myelin proteins surrounding the sheath of nerve fibers, resulting in brain dysfunction. Singh found that 55% of autistic children developed this condition after receiving the MMR vaccine and 33% after receiving the diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis (DTP) vaccine.

Stephen T. Schultz Acetaminophen (paracetamol) use, measles-mumps-rubella vaccination, and autistic disorder Acetaminophen (paracetamol) use, measles-mumps-rubella vaccination, and autistic disorder
Autism, Vol. 12, No. 3, 293-307 (2008)
DOI: 10.1177/1362361307089518 © 2008 The National Autistic Society, SAGE Publications
The present study was performed to determine whether acetaminophen (paracetamol) use after the measles-mumps-rubella vaccination could be associated with autistic disorder. This case-control study used the results of an online parental survey conducted from 16 July 2005 to 30 January 2006, consisting of 83 children with autistic disorder and 80 control children. Acetaminophen use after measles-mumps-rubella vaccination was significantly associated with autistic disorder when considering children 5 years of age or less (OR 6.11, 95% CI 1.42—26.3), after limiting cases to children with regression in development (OR 3.97, 95% CI 1.11—14.3), and when considering only children who had post-vaccination sequelae (OR 8.23, 95% CI 1.56—43.3), adjusting for age, gender, mother's ethnicity, and the presence of illness concurrent with measles-mumps-rubella vaccination. Ibuprofen use after measles-mumps-rubella vaccination was not associated with autistic disorder. This preliminary study found that acetaminophen use after measles-mumps-rubella vaccination was associated with autistic disorder.

 

[MattRose]

"Another study published in “Epidemiology” in 1997 followed 1265 children born in 1977 to determine if infant immunization is a risk factor for childhood asthma or allergy. The 23 children in the study who received no DPT and polio immunizations had no recorded asthma episodes or consultations for asthma or other allergic illness before the age of 10 years; in the immunized children, 23.1% had asthma episodes, 22.5% asthma consultations and 30% consultations for other allergic illness. Of course, other factors could be at play also. Yet, this study does make me question the possible link!"
Possible Causes of Food Allergy

This link is to a quack website. Don't you see that they are just selling books? There's a big difference between factual websites and websites that say what you want to hear.

Vijendra K. Singh is head of Brain State Technologies which is a money extracting company for people with lost causes. Unfortunately, there is a wrestler and an illegal immigrant with the same name. As such, I didn't find any smoking guns on him, but I'm sure someone else will. Volunteers?

Anyway the scientific community is satisfied that autism isn't linked to MMR. Who are we to challenge their research? I don't even own a beaker or test tube.

Just to remove the clutter from this discussion. I'll agree to accept your premise that MMR causes autism and allergies and anything else you want it to. The fact remains that 100's of millions of people are alive due to MMR. With MMR, some people get autism, and alleriges and their life. Without they get death. I thought christians chose life?

 

[MattRose]

Stephen T. Schultz Acetaminophen (paracetamol) use, measles-mumps-rubella vaccination, and autistic disorder Acetaminophen (paracetamol) use, measles-mumps-rubella vaccination, and autistic disorder

That study was based on results from an online parental survey. Coincidently, all the kids turned out to be well above average in looks and intelligence.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

Vijendra K. Singh, a scientist at the Utah State University, published a conclusive study in 2001 confirming that MMR-vaccinated children have abnormally high levels of measles virus antibodies, indicating that autism may be a neuro-immune response to the vaccine. Singh found auto-antibodies in 80% of autistic children while normal children had none. These auto-antibodies apparently attack the myelin proteins surrounding the sheath of nerve fibers, resulting in brain dysfunction. Singh found that 55% of autistic children developed this condition after receiving the MMR vaccine and 33% after receiving the diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis (DTP) vaccine.

Link me to the study, please. Just finding high rates of antibodies (the intended effect of the vaccine, by the way) doesn't mean that has an effect. You'd have to find evidence of the demyelination. So post those studies, please (and link to PubMed.)

Stephen T. Schultz Acetaminophen (paracetamol) use, measles-mumps-rubella vaccination, and autistic disorder Acetaminophen (paracetamol) use, measles-mumps-rubella vaccination, and autistic disorder
Autism, Vol. 12, No. 3, 293-307 (2008)
DOI: 10.1177/1362361307089518 © 2008 The National Autistic Society, SAGE Publications
The present study was performed to determine whether acetaminophen (paracetamol) use after the measles-mumps-rubella vaccination could be associated with autistic disorder. This case-control study used the results of an online parental survey conducted from 16 July 2005 to 30 January 2006, consisting of 83 children with autistic disorder and 80 control children. Acetaminophen use after measles-mumps-rubella vaccination was significantly associated with autistic disorder when considering children 5 years of age or less (OR 6.11, 95% CI 1.42—26.3), after limiting cases to children with regression in development (OR 3.97, 95% CI 1.11—14.3), and when considering only children who had post-vaccination sequelae (OR 8.23, 95% CI 1.56—43.3), adjusting for age, gender, mother's ethnicity, and the presence of illness concurrent with measles-mumps-rubella vaccination. Ibuprofen use after measles-mumps-rubella vaccination was not associated with autistic disorder. This preliminary study found that acetaminophen use after measles-mumps-rubella vaccination was associated with autistic disorder.

So acetaminophen use resulted in autism after MMR, but ibuprofen didn't? So why don't we just give ibuprofen after you get the MMR and then you don't get autism?

That study does not implicate MMR, it implicates acetaminophen if anything. This is actually interesting, because acetaminophen causes liver and kidney failure because it generates a lot of oxidants when it is metabolized. If there is a component of oxidative stress contributing to autism, that's a good thing to know. But this study doesn't implicate the vaccine.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

I'm sorry but that's not how reality works. You have to look at all aspects of something not just one study (and I have posted studies). As we see from the topic of this thread studies can be bought to say one thing only to turn out to be fraud. If all you do is go by the latest so-called "study" and ignore everything else then you've lost touch with reality.

This is how reality works. You don't understand it because you don't understand science. In order for an idea to be established, there must be evidence. For something to qualify as evidence, it must be scrutinized and criticized with the scientific method. Only after it has withstood scrutiny can it be accepted, which is the whole point of doing research and publishing peer reviewed papers. You don't get to make up your own reality just because you want a reason to hate Big Pharma and think everyone should go to homeopaths.