Authority to Bind & Loose on earth

[racer]

Hi Matt,

I think that if the original poster answers your question, he'll be cited again for debating. Perhaps you could invite him to take the discussion to another forum such as CARM or NTRMin.

See?? Glad you're back . . . I was thinking the same.

 

[theseed]

In regards to Apostalistic authority, I believe that Peter was in the leader of the 12, was in Rome, and was given authority by Jesus. I don't see that authority as absolute, but as relating to practices like cirmucision. It is heaven that does the binding and the loosing. Also, I don't see where that said authority was to be passed down. Some say that Mathias was not supposed to be an Apostle because the Apostels were supposed to wait on Christ. I believe Christ chose the 12th Aposlte--Paul.

 

[LynneClomina]

Your question assumes that this aspect of the disciples' authority was passed on to their successors. I reject that assumption as false.

~Matt

i believe it was passed on to every believer, as every believer is a preist.

 

[Carlos Vigil]

1 Timothy 2:2
for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.

Sorry about that,...I should have written: ( 2 Tim 2:2 )

 

[Carlos Vigil]

Rather, please explain your position more. Where do you see a succession of apostolic authority in 2 Timothy 2:2? Which element(s) in this passage is indicative of apostolic authority being passed on (Timothy entrusting, the quality of the men being passed on the teachings, etc.)?

~Matt[/QUOTE]

Dear Matt,
Which elements?...( of 2Tim. 2:2 )
(1) "the things you have HEARD FROM ME"
(2) "HAND ON...(entrust) (commit) (transmit);... to trustworthy men.
(3) "who will be... ABLE to TEACH... others.
This passage REVEALS APOSTOLIC TRADITION caught red-handed!
as clearly as a snapshot of one runner handing the BATON to another
relay runner.
shall we shoot those runners for practicing "the abominable ;APOSTOLIC TRADITION?"

For the LOVE OF TRUTH and the edification of the brothers.
Carlos.

 

[tigersnare]

Dear Matt,
Which elements?...( of 2Tim. 2:2 )
(1) "the things you have HEARD FROM ME"
(2) "HAND ON...(entrust) (commit) (transmit);... to trustworthy men.
(3) "who will be... ABLE to TEACH... others.
This passage REVEALS APOSTOLIC TRADITION caught red-handed!
as clearly as a snapshot of one runner handing the BATON to another
relay runner.
shall we shoot those runners for practicing "the abominable ;APOSTOLIC TRADITION?"

For the LOVE OF TRUTH and the edification of the brothers.
Carlos.

I guess next we'll have to define "apostle", then "apostolic succession", and then whatever "apostolic tradition" is.......

 

[InquisitorKind]

Which elements?...( of 2Tim. 2:2 )
(1) "the things you have HEARD FROM ME"
(2) "HAND ON...(entrust) (commit) (transmit);... to trustworthy men.
(3) "who will be... ABLE to TEACH... others.

Your original question was about the authority to bind and loose. If passing on the authority of binding and loosing is based on the three elements you've outlined, why would any teaching Christian taught by other Christians be exempt from that authority?

Again, if you would like to continue discussion, I would recommend to you the site I sent through PM. I don't want you to get cited for debating violations.

~Matt

 

[12volt_man]

I'm a little embarrassed to admit this but when I was a new Christian, I got sucked into the WoF movement and was taught that this passage referred to binding and casting out demons.

I used to go around all the time saying "I bind the Devil in Jesus name".

I know it was stupid but I didn't know any better.

 

[tigersnare]

I used to go around all the time saying "I bind the Devil in Jesus name".

This isn't normal????

Rock on Dude

 

[Carlos Vigil]

Your original question was about the authority to bind and loose. If passing on the authority of binding and loosing is based on the three elements you've outlined, why would any teaching Christian taught by other Christians be exempt from that authority?

Again, if you would like to continue discussion, I would recommend to you the site I sent through PM. I don't want you to get cited for debating violations.

~Matt

Hi InquisitorK,
there are many more scriptures that show Authority being being transfered
than what I have outlined.

about exemption;..."Not every one who says "lord,lord" ( I'm a christian, I'm a christian) ...shall enter the kingdon of God , but ONLY the one who DOES the the will of my Father in heaven."...Authority and obedience walk together....he who is faithful in little things will be entrusted with...
the sole source of authority is Jesus Christ.(Mat. 28:18)
and He brought THE NEW COVENANT.... whoever Lives and teaches the NEW COVENANT,to him God entrusts Authority....in common language; ARE YOU UNDER CONTRACT WITH GOD? take out the contract, read what He commands us to DO.

Binding & Loosing Authority can be seen in John 14:21 "He who OBEYS the commandments he has from me is the man who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father and I too will love him and REVEAL myself to him."

The Patristic fathers exercized this Authority when they formally acknowledged the doctrine of Papal Supremacy in the second century.
the doctrine of the Holy Trinity in the fourth century...of the Holy Bible in the fourth century,...of transubstantiation in the thirteenth century.

if we "christians" decide to believe some doctrines and some not, then we
become JUDGES and not OBEYERS of Gods Word.
and the authority we enjoy is in priportion to our OBEDIENCE of the NEW COVENANT....CO + VENIR = TOGETHER + WE COME (With God according to HIS "contract)

For the LOVE OF TRUTH
Carlos

 

[Carlos Vigil]

I'm a little embarrassed to admit this but when I was a new Christian, I got sucked into the WoF movement and was taught that this passage referred to binding and casting out demons.

I used to go around all the time saying "I bind the Devil in Jesus name".

I know it was stupid but I didn't know any better.

12 volt man,
you are hilarious!!!!...you have me laughing...( I've done that too )
but THEN I discovered The BLOOD OF THE NEW COVENANT in Mat.26:28
and in Rev. 12:11 and 1 John 5:6,7,8

I don't know how that trend started but it sure is effective to lead "little ones astray" FROM the NEW COVENANT.....in search for power & authority.
Carlos

 

[Carlos Vigil]

I guess next we'll have to define "apostle", then "apostolic succession", and then whatever "apostolic tradition" is.......

What do you think?...
is it better to; (A)define the race ...or to
(B) run the race ?

 

[InquisitorKind]

there are many more scriptures that show Authority being being transfered
than what I have outlined.

That doesn't answer the question I asked.

about exemption;..."Not every one who says "lord,lord" ( I'm a christian, I'm a christian) ...shall enter the kingdon of God , but ONLY the one who DOES the the will of my Father in heaven."...Authority and obedience walk together....he who is faithful in little things will be entrusted with...
the sole source of authority is Jesus Christ.(Mat. 28:18)
and He brought THE NEW COVENANT.... whoever Lives and teaches the NEW COVENANT,to him God entrusts Authority....in common language; ARE YOU UNDER CONTRACT WITH GOD? take out the contract, read what He commands us to DO.

How is this relevant?

Binding & Loosing Authority can be seen in John 14:21 "He who OBEYS the commandments he has from me is the man who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father and I too will love him and REVEAL myself to him."

How are you defining binding and loosing authority? You certainly don't see the common Roman Catholic understanding in this passage.

The Patristic fathers exercized this Authority when they formally acknowledged the doctrine of Papal Supremacy in the second century.

You would be the first Roman Catholic to document this. What's your supporting evidence?

~Matt

 

[tigersnare]

What do you think?...
is it better to; (A)define the race ...or to
(B) run the race ?

Your knowledge and widsom could possibly be vastly superior to mine.....because I don't see how your question has anything to do with stating an agreed upon definition for the terms we are discussion.....much less the question even making sense.

 

[BBAS 64]

What do you think?...
is it better to; (A)define the race ...or to
(B) run the race ?

A race that is not defined can not be run?

BBAS

 

[d0c markus]

this is a good discussion... i have left it edified.

 

[Carlos Vigil]

A race that is not defined can not be run?

BBAS

Dear BBAS64,
The first thought that comes to my mind is;
"All who are LED by THE SPIRIT OF GOD are sons of God."(Rom. 8:14... and
"The things you have heard from me through many witnesses you must hand on to trustworthy men who will be able to teach others." (2 tim. 2:2

Does "being led by the HOLY SPIRIT" and introducing to others the same
process reveal any aspect of "THE RACE" to you?
a brother IN CHRIST
Carlos

 

[d0c markus]

Dear BBAS64,
The first thought that comes to my mind is;
"All who are LED by THE SPIRIT OF GOD are sons of God."(Rom. 8:14... and
"The things you have heard from me through many witnesses you must hand on to trustworthy men who will be able to teach others." (2 tim. 2:2

Does "being led by the HOLY SPIRIT" and introducing to others the same
process reveal any aspect of "THE RACE" to you?
a brother IN CHRIST
Carlos

You should become a protestant.

 

[backley]

What do you think?...
is it better to; (A)define the race ...or to
(B) run the race ?

Carlos,

I believe apostolic succession is supported by the scripture but there was a criteria that needed to be met.

Act 1:21 "Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us--
Act 1:22 beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us--one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection."

It is pretty clear that apostolic succession is supported but can no longer take place because no one can meet the criteria. Hope this helps.

God Bless,

Brian

 

[Carlos Vigil]

Carlos,
I believe apostolic succession is supported by the scripture but there was a criteria that needed to be met.

Act 1:21 "Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us--
Act 1:22 beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us--one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection."

It is pretty clear that apostolic succession is supported but can no longer take place because no one can meet the criteria. Hope this helps.

God Bless,



Thank you Backley for the Blessing
It does help some,but tell me...if we use those scriptures as the criteria for APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION (apostolic authority) Succession proceeds from authority, does it not?)
doesn't that criteria ELIMINATE St.Paul as AN APOSTLE?...since he did not accompany them at all from the baptism of John until His Ascension?
when, where and how did St. Paul get HIS APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY?
and was he and the other Apostles in accord?... "that they may be one..." (John17:11 ).....I believe that down through the centuries, THE ONE TRUE FAITH that Jesus enjoyed, that He transfered to His Apostles, which THEY OBEYED, and transfered to other TRUSTWORTHY MEN, has given and does still give Apostolic Aithority to all who obey Him, to this very day.
If APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY has ended, then there is NO AUTHORITY on earth
and we can all do as we please. any body can start any thing they dream up
and give it a "dignified name" employ cheer leaders to drum up recruits and get large numbers of poor gillible souls and teach every wind of doctrine.But
God will say "DEPART FROM ME YOU WORKERS OF INIQUITY, I NEVER KNEW YOU."
isn't APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY is on earth to CLEARLY REVEAL THE "HARD AND NARROW WAY THAT LEADS TO LIFE ? doesn't "Apostolic" mean "sent by the
the Holy Spirit?"..... under what authority is YOUR CHURCH run?
is it Apostolic Authority?.....
if we do not submit to those Shephards who are called and submit, then are we not in danger of being "these people who honor me with their lips but their heart is far from me?" ...are we not in danger of "giving allegiance to the prince of the air , that spirit who is even now at work among the rebellious"?
IN THE LOVE OF CHRIST & FOR THE LOVE OF TRUTH,for the brotherhood,
Carlos
(I suppose this means I am banned from P/R/E for ever)