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Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."
God leads and Jesus Christ is able to build His church. he builds the church from insode believers as they let the Word of Christ dwell in them richly t, from this they teach and admonish one another, in psalms and hymns etc. Christ works effectually in every part,
"15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love."( Ephesians 4:15,16 KJV)
To edify means to "build up as a housebuilder. And this is how Christ builds His church, in us.
"30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted."(1 Corinthians 14:30,31)
"5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation:"(romans 12:5-8)
Acts 20:32
And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified."
Notice that Paul did not commend them to a man or pastor or pope or any such order. He trusted that God would work in them
"10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."( 1 Peter 4:10,11)
"27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."(1 John 2:27)
and there is no "worship service in the new testament". Many times believers speak thinsg from the traditions they have learned. Like saying tings like "lets go to church", or "my pastor is the head of the church", etc. These are wrong, no one ever goes to church we are the church, and Christ alone is the head of the church.
Whoa, hold on. We need to look at that scripture to see what part of speech the words holy and reverend are in Ps 111:9?
'holy' is an adjective, not a pronoun, not a name of God. And reverend is a verb, not a pronoun, not a name of God.
So holy is describing that God's name is holy. ie. green is the shirt.
reverend is a verb
reverend = H3372 = fearing
yaw-ray'
A primitive root; to fear; morally to revere; causatively to frighten: - affright, be (make) afraid, dread (-ful), (put in) fear (-ful, -fully, -ing). (be had in) reverence (-end), X see, terrible (act, -ness, thing).
See here for parts of speech
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/psalms/111-9.htm
Master of Divinity is not a title, it is first a master's degree in theology. Then it is a description of one who has studied and understands what the divine word of God teaches. It in no way implies that they themselves are divine."Master of Divinity,
Feared and holy is Yahwah.God reverend and holy is His NAME
Master of Divinity is not a title, it is first a master's degree in theology. Then it is a description of one who has studied and understands what the divine word of God teaches. It in no way implies that they themselves are divine.
It is the same with the Hebrew word, rabi and rabanim, teacher/master. In the Greek, didaskalos. Paul calls himself a teacher and God ordains teachers, people with understanding of God's word to help others to understand.
Feared and holy is Yahwah.
God says that His chosen people are holy. So God being holy does not mean His people are not.
People get hung up on titles rather than understanding what the title means. Just like people who get hung up on Rabbi. Jesus was not saying you can't use the word that describes a man who is your teacher/master/mentor. He was saying that we are never to give them a place above the true teacher and master of our souls. We are never to believe what they say before/over what God says.
Reverend Jones, Father Smith, Pastor Green, do not have the same authority that God has, but they do have some authority as ministers and servants to their portion of God's flock. It is their duty to God. By the same token it is the flock's duty to God not to allow these men to overstep their authority or to revere them as God or even as little gods.
This thread is giving me pause for thought. How do you read Matt16:18-19? I do appreciate your input regarding authority in the church.
That is cool and all, but someone has to say, : "Let us bow our heads in prayer." or "Let us sing [such-n-such] song" You confuse the role of a minister with authority. They are not one and the same.
Leadership is not about exercising authority. Did you not understand my first reply?
Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
These are just my understandings and I don't claim that I have everything correct.This thread is giving me pause for thought. How do you read Matt16:18-19? I do appreciate your input regarding authority in the church.
I don't go to church, God is my authority.AUTHORITY IN THE CHURCH
A very important question that should be asked by all believers is,
“what authority do elders or anyone in the body have, and how are they to function in the body?”
So much is said today about the authority of ministers. It is seldom even questioned if those who are in “authority over us”, are actually in Gods authority the way he shows it to us. But much of the understanding of authority and the so called “coverings” of ministers over others is misunderstood and false and not in God’s order.
This whole issue of authority has been a major struggle for believers throughout history. We can easily look back at the times of Jesus and see the Pharisaical groups pressing their authority and traditions of men over men against the word of God and of the reformers standing against the false authority of the Catholic Church and the entire religious order of man that was forced upon men, where none could speak or question such distorted authority. We even see the false authority that was set up in Protestant churches. This issue has been perhaps one of the main areas of struggle against God’s order in the body ministry over the centuries.
But even today this issue of authority is still a great concern. Men’s authority can and does often fight against God’s authority.
The authority that men set for themselves today is often a "positional authority" over others and as Lords over the other believers where the authority is in man's persons and greatness over others with their learning and natural ability often. While this authority is allowed within political governments and rulers and kings have such authority to govern nations and as long as they are not a terror to good works etc (Romans 12) . This authority however, is not the same in the church and among the gathering of believers .
Sadly however, many today have similar authority as the worlds rulers have in their positional authority in many assemblies today and they rule the same way among the believers. Usually this one ruler has a man made title and is called “the Pastor” or the unbiblical title “Reverend”, and they go by many different titles. Their position and function in this is not in the authority of God in the Church .
Yes, there are pastor gifts as well as other gifts as we have seen (Ephesians4:11) but theses gifts are not titles and there is not to be one man over the gatherings as the pastor. Today men take such flattering titles and some call themselves "masters of divinity".No man is called by a title in the a new Testament . And only Gods is referred to as reverend as we read ,
“He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.” (Psalms 111:9)
How can men take such titles in the body of Christ that clearly only belong to God?
Jesus spoke against much of the authority that we see today when dealing with the apostles arguing who is the greatest among them and as some jostled for position Matthew 20:21. When seeing thus kind of arguing Jesus was moved with indignation against them and said,
“But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:”( Matthew 20: 25-27)
"42 But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. 43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:" Mark 10:42,43
What Jesus spoke here was a very different understanding of authority to the worlds understanding. He first defines the worlds authority of princes over men and those who are great among them . He says they exercise two things,, DOMINION over them and AUTHORITY over them. The word “dominion” means, “Κατακυριεύουσιν” means “to lord it over - significant of an absolute and oppressive domination. And the word authority is “κατεξουσιάξουσιν”, which means, to use authority harshly and severely
Jesus also uses the word " to rule over". This word means in Greek, "to be first (in political rank), reign. These false rulers are FIRST and in a political sense, positionally in the world. But this is not the new Testament rule for believers. They are to be in the new creation and walk in that rule, under Christ headship and leading (Ephesians 4:15,16). The word of God is their authority.
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them,"Galatians 6:15,16)
So the "rule" is to live from the new creature in the new creation. Peter said also,
"neither as being lords over God’s heritage, but being ensamples to the flock." 1 Peter 5
The word "lords" has the meaning of controling subjugate and Lord against. This is what we see in many places this absolute control over the flock. This control is as the Gentile authority. And it should not be done this way. Overseer elders should be examples to others in word and deed. That speaks more than a dictator who dishes out orders and control over others.
This Lording over others in an absolute oppressive way where all are under this kind of authority is not to be so in the church . Jesus clearly says , “But it shall not be so among you: “. But this kind if authority is seen everywhere today where all are subject to the ones who are great among them and the authority is in their persons or positions. Paul also warned against this kind if false authority and that men would draw away others after themselves, (Acts20:30). And John also warned of this as we has shown, (1 John 3:26) .
But what kind of authority does Jesus define for the church? the authority of the church is founded upon Christ and derived from Him and his word, it is worked in humility and love, not in an oppressive dominance of men's persons, as Lords over others or in the natural human wisdom and personality cults. On the contrary, Jesus says, that the one who will be great among them should be as MINISTERS and SERVANTS. A servant does not have authority in the world. But in Gods order this is where they find it. The true authority of God comes when we live in the word of God and speak the word of God. This authority is from God and not of ourselves. We are only able to walk in Gods authority when we are dead to self and let Christ effectually work in us and as we walk in the word of God and His leading. This is how we see the true service and ministry in the light and Spirit of God. And as we read in scripture, It is God that will “Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ;”(Hebrews 13:21).
Any man who walks outside of God working in himself does not have Gods authority or Gods order.
Jesus directly turns the world upside down with this teaching and we find this understanding all through the New Testament. John said similar things when he said that believers have no need that any man should teach them (1 John 2:26??. )It is God that teaches through the anointing in Christ and in the word. To day that believers have no need for any MAN yo teach us is the heart of the matter. It is not men's natural wisdom and persons that we are to hear but Gods word, His anointing that we must abide in. We don't know man after the flesh anymore as Paul said, and we crucify the flesh and the old man. We are to live in the new man. And when Christ as the head works in all believers His anointing teaches us all things, even if that anointing uses a believer to speak, we listen for the authority of Gods word in our heart by a manifestation of the truth ( 2 Cor 4).To speak forth from this anointing is to speak from God’s leading and according to his word,this the only real authority among us
This is clearly the only authority we we are to walk in in the body of Christ, because imagine a man who calls himself a reverend pastor or the leader of the church , and who has preeminence in a meeting, and then he says things that are false or lies and he speaks from his natural mind what he knows naturally in the flesh. Are all believers just suppose to listen to him and obey? Are we suppose to go contrary to the word of God and our conscience just because he says he is the authority? No, this authority of men is not Gods authority and it is not grounded in the word and it has no inner witness to believers. Yet how many people are under such men who exhalt themselves and go contrary to the word of God and who have this positional authority that gives them dominance over the rest if the body and quenches the spirit in others who would speak a word of correction or instruction? Remember Paul taught the believers to let the word of Christ dwell in them richly and from this leading to teach and admonish one another (Colossians 3:16) he did not say let the pastor only have authority in his person and he alone can speak. Yet this is exactly what we see happening today and the roots if this was strongest during the dark ages during the Middle Ages where a strong clergy laity (so called) was set up over all and where for a long time no man could speak or minister except the priest reverend, the pastor etc. and supreme authority was in a man called the pope.
In the time of Constantine who wanted to make Christianity a more prominent belief . He immitated the pagan religions in some things and build large refurbished temple type structures unbiblically called churches. Then he had priest or ministers, who later were known as the clergy set up over others. The body was then silenced under such men. this was very similar to the pagan religious leaders. We even see Gods people wanting to be like the pagan nations and have a man rule over them with Saul. But when they did this God said they stopped wanting God to rule over them. God was ruling over them by his word and they wanted a king instead. This is what we see today . many want a king or one man pastor ministry over them, and Gods anointing ( the word of God sown in them) in rejected as the only teacher and rule we live in. This creates a false authority in men's persona over the body and it is exactly similar to the gentile rule and authority that Jesus warned against.
This problem of authority was a similar problem that Jesus , had with the Pharisees, and the apostles also after his death. . The religious leaders pressed their authority over Gods and tried to stop Jesus and the apostles them from living and speaking in the word of God. Even the early reformers who stood against the Roman Catholic Church met with such false authority. Such men were against the word of God and did not want to hear the word correct them. They loved their rule over men and their high places being exalted and they loved to be called of men in their high titles and positions. Jesus warned of this also, be not called rabbi, or master.
In church History we also see such a conflict with the religious leaders of the day many times in the reformation days as well as later. Who can forget reformers saying things like,
“Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason - I do not accept the authority of the popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other - my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not recant anything for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. God help me. Amen.” (Martin Luthers address at Diet Worms on April 2, 1521)
This was an issue of those times as it is similar today, in fact this has always been an issue. I am not quoting Luther here to justify all he said, for there are many issues with Luther and various reformers that may not be agreed upon. But the principle here was a driving issue for the reformers.
But if a believer speaks the word of God and according to Holy scripture (which were given by the same Spirit in every believer), and if they live in that word and their faith follows , then they have authority.
To put it simply, imagine this scene. A Pope is sitting in his chair of authority in a long robe and with a crown , and he has a castle like structure around him, with high ceilings and gold and precious stones, and many men around him in lower positions. Then a baby Christian walks in and the Pope says something not according to the Holy scriptures and the baby Christian reads a scripture that corrects him. The baby christian has more authority than the Pope in that. The Baby Christians authority is the word of God, the Popes is his position and political reigning and person.
Paul directed the elders of Ephesus to this same leading and authority that he was in, when after having warned them of being drawn after men’s persons and how men would rise up from among them to draw away disciples after themselves, he commended them to God and the word of his grace that is able to build them up. This “word of His grace” is where the power and life and where authority comes.
“ I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up” Acts 20:32)
We see more about this word of God”s grace or this word of authority when Jesus taught, this again shows where’s he authority is, giving us an example . It was said ,
“For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes. “(Matthew 7:29)
It was Jesus word as he taught that had the weight of authority not in the positional political authority as the scribes. Here we see the two different authorities and their spheres of influence. One teaches the heart and the other is set up over men in the world.The Pharisees were in a positional authority as the religious leaders. But Jesus spoke as one having authority in his teaching. This is because the word of God is the authority. Jesus authority was not like theirs. Yet today how many are in a positional authority as the scribes and pharisees were over others?
Even those in the who were in positional authority over others in the world. When hearing this word of authority from Jesus could recognize it if they had faith as we see with the Roman Centurion,
“The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed. 9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it. When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel” Matthew 8:8-10)
Here we see that it was Jesus word that carried the authority and even the Roman Centurion knew this. The centurion was not appealing to Jesus earthly authority as a king or political leader but to his authority in His word spoken.This is the same authority we have in Christ today.
But, Jesus, as his followers today, are often challenged in this authority,
“And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority? “
Jesus was not recognized in the positional authority as the priest or Pharisees, or in a political sense of authority. Jesus was not a earthly king as they understood, not one of the Pharisees or priest. They did not understand his authority but when he spoke no man spoke as he did and his teaching was with power and authority.
Some today put more stress on the visible political , positional authority as the Gentile authority was then. They do not see the divine authority that men speak in as they abide in Christ . All believers can have this authority .
We see it n the apostles were also questioned in this authority,
“And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this? 8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them”(Acts 4:7, 8)
The leaders and priest did not recognize their authority or in what name they spoke. But when Peter answered he spoke in that authority and was “filled with the Holy Ghost” he was not speaking the word of men, but as it is in truth , the word if God that effectually works in those that believe.
The authority we have in Christ is also as we live in the word and speak the word of God.
To be in Christ and in his name we have the authority, as Jesus did to cast out devils ,
“ for with authority commandeth he even the unclean spirits, and they do obey him. “
Jesus also sent his disciples out and gave them power to cast out devils, before the cross (Matthew 10) .To do so men have to be in His name, and this is more than a formula of words. To speak things be in his name or to do things “on His name”, means to be in the character qualities and attributes of Christ and to have his life in us. Without this life and power in Christ we can do nothing (John 15), this is our authority.
We see some men trying to cast out devils in Jesus name whom Paul preached and the devils jumped all over them . They were using a formula of words but not themselves in the name of Jesus or his authority in their hearts .
“Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth. 14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. 15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? 16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded”(Acts 19:13-16)
But those believers who are “in Christ” are on his name also, or in the character of Christ as new creations they have the power to cast out devils”
“And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils” (Mark 16:17)
And Jesus said at one time,
“..., he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out” Matthew 10:1)
This word “power here can also imply authority , privilege,right strength, force.
The reason that believers can go forth in the Lord and His word with authority is because Jesus has all power and authority and this power in him is given to those who believe. And when we believe we have his life and can live and speak the word of God. Believers are to let that word of Christ dwell in them richly. This is far different from men’s authority. Even if a man was a king over a country and was not in the authority, or power of the Lord he could not cast out a devil. Devils dont care if your an earthly king, but if you are in the name of Jesus and in his life and power and word, then we can do all things.
“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth” (Matthew 28:18)
Jesus has ALL power ( authority) over all heaven and earth. Where is mans authority in this and without being in Gods word there is no authority in the church
In the book of Hebrews we see the authority referred to again although many wrongly understand this section . It says,
“Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation” (Hebrews 13:7)
Here we see that Christians are told to “remember” such people or to “be mindful” of such men. The reason to do this is because they have spoken “the word of God” and their faith follow. As we saw already, we know that it is the word of God’s grace that is able to build them up. They will speak the word and are an example in their walk. This is how believers are to be mindful if them.
We also read that they (plural elders) have the “rule” over them. These men would no doubt be referring to the elders/overseers who watch and care for them who are more mature brothers who speak and live in the word more soundly and settled. But this “rule“ is by the word of God as the writer said. Not because they are like the “Gentile authorities” in some positional authority or "rule" over others. This rule is not mans rule or natural understanding , it is a spiritual direction in Christ These two "rules" the gentile rule and how elders rule, are different.
Jesus Christ has called all believers to know or recognize (ordain) elders among believers who live and move in this word. This "rule" of elders is only as they speak and follow in the word of God and live in and from the new creation. men who do not speak and follow Christ in the word do not have this rule spoken of here and their word is not the word of God’s authority. As Paul also said to follow him as he followed Christ.
We read more of the “rule” for all believers when Paul said.
“ 14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. ...18 Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen. “ (Gelatins 6:14-16,18)
Here Paul silences any glory of men in their flesh weather works they do it we can extend this to natural rule or authority over others. All men can only glory in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ and without Jesus we can do nothing (John 15)
When we are dead to self we can walk in the “rule” of Christ in us. There is no self glory, or exalting of ourself, or dominating or controling others under our authority.. Paul said, that nothing else is important except being a new creation in Christ. This living from the new creation is the rule if our faith and practice and God’s order in our lives .Paul ends this thought with a prayer that the “grace of our Lord Jesus Christ would be with their spirit. Showing again that this is a spiritual rule. Yes, the spiritual rule extends and affects our lives as we live in earth. But the source and center of that rule, authority, and order is in Christ spiritually. This is how we have the peace of God ruling in our hearts also as Paul said here and in other places,
“And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. “ (Colossians 3:15)
Here we see where the rule is and the peace , it is of God’s rule and order in our hearts. This is not mans rule or natural rule as a king over a nation like the gentiles ruled.
The peace of God is not as the worlds peace. Men can set up their own outward order and it may seem peaceful bit the true "rule of God’s peace is in our hearts" as we are living in Christ all our lives flow from this and our authority in the word as well. Jesus said,
“Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. “ (John 14:27)
This peace affects our hearts. This not like the worlds peace. The world can only have rulers who act as Lords over others in the natural realm and in their authority. These men become like Lords over others forcing them to submit and controling them. But the peace of God that RULES is in our hearts, and God is in control of all things as we abide in him and walk with him.
Believers live in the kingdom of God and he is the king of that kingdom. No natural man rules over that kingdom. Only the God-man Jesus Christ
Gods rule is what we walk in as we are led by the Spirit.
“Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. 17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. 18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) 20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ” (Philippians 3:16-20)
Paul mentions walking according to the “rule” again. That "rule is related to having the same mind, this mind we have us the “mind of Christ” (1 Corinthians 2) .But as Paul said, those who don’t walk on this rule mind earthly things. They also glory in these things and to their Shane. How many today have their own programs and order and exalt themselves over others and make a name for themselves seeking to bring glory to them and their religious systems?
Paul also says that those who are enemies of this “rule” are those who are enemies of the cross. As I already mentioned, the only way to see the word working in us and this anointing of the life of Christ manifest in our lives and gatherings is when we are crucified with Christ. Paul echos this understanding in many places.
Paul was so certain if this grace and rule in his life that he said for others to follow him and he follows Christ and he told them to mark or take note if those who walk the sane and who reflect in their life example the life of God as they are led by the Spirit. And as Paul said “our conversation is in heaven”. And believers live in Gods kingdom within, from where all order and rule begins and from where the authority flows .
In the same chapter of Hebrews 13 we read,
“Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls,” (Hebrews 13:17)
Notice first if all that there is a plurality of persons spoken here, and not just one man, certainly not one man called “the pastor or reverend”. But believers are told to “obey “ them. This word “obey” is not the same word used for children obeying their parents. This word means “ allow yourself to be persuaded". The reason believers should allow themselves to be persuaded is because these men have “spoken the word of God and their faith follow”. They are to let the word of God persuade them and quicken them.And as they walk in the word and show forth the example they show their faith by their works. This is to let God work and lead them.
We also see another word that is used differently here than it is in other places in the New Testament and that word is “submit”. This word is not the same word as wives submit to your husbands, but rather it means “ to yield as in combatants” . Believers are to allow themselves to be persuaded by the word of God that mature brothers speak and to yield to this. Not following their own ways and fighting against Gods word. In fact all believers are to submit to one another in this as well because anything can be revealed to another from God (1 Corinthians 14).
In the same chapter 13 of Hebrews we read a telling verse that again pulls all this obedience to the word and submission. This verse below shows who the real ruleris and where this authority comes from,
“Now the God of peace,...Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. “ (Hebrews 13:20, 21)
The God of peace alone can make us perfect in EVERY good work. This shows were all our good works our words and utterance come from and where the true authority and rule come from. And as this scripture says God is WORKING in us as we live in the spirit.
Everything we do comes from the spirit. We must worship God in Spirit and in truth. Jesus shows that it is His word that gives life,
“ the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life” (John 6:63)
Again it is the word if God that has power and authority. Not men’s words in the church or men’s authority. Espescially if they speak contrary to the Holy scriptures.
Paul commended the Jews for searching the scriptures if what he said was true of not. He was willing to have his life and words and ministry examined by the authority of God, the Holy scriptures.
and if all believers abide in this word and walk in it, that is where authority comes from.
Elders who use the word rightly and are skilful in the word of righteousness, will have the authority of Gods word to use and have weight. babes are unskillful in the word of righteousness. In titus we read that overseers are able by sound doctrine to exhort and convince the gainsayer. They do not just bark out their authority and say things like,"I am the overseer listen to me, and its my house stop etc. No they persuade, convince, exhort and all in and by the word. They hold fast the faith full word that they have been taught and this is how they exhort the gainsayers.
may it be so in every place today as well.
"...holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. 10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 11 whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not..." Titus 1:9-11)
Amen
I don't go to church, God is my authority.
Then why do you think you need to tell us that we should not call a teacher, a teacher? That's rather puzzling to me.But to sum up, we dont need MAN to teach, the old man is crucified dead and we do not walk in that man or listen to that man as relating to spiritual truth and life.
Somebody has to lead worship service.
Then why do you think you need to tell us that we should not call a teacher, a teacher? That's rather puzzling to me.
Why was Paul teaching people who were indwelled by the Holy Spirit, if they didn't need teachers? Why would we be given teachers at all in the assembly?
So when Jesus said call no man Rabbi or father/you should not be called Rabbi, what did He mean? I believe two things....
Mat 23:8 `And ye--ye may not be called Rabbi, for one is your director--the Christ, and all ye are brethren;
I understand this as saying we are all equal brothers in Christ. No one is better than the other, whether they are an arm or a toe. We should not be giving place to any other notion or encouraging others to stumble by giving them praise or respect that only belongs to God.
Mat 23:12 and whoever shall exalt himself shall be humbled, and whoever shall humble himself shall be exalted.
Well this is pretty self explanatory. If God gives one the ability to pastor or teach His flock, they should not exalt themselves above others in the flock, cause others to stumble by giving them a equal position with God.
These particular titles were being addressed because of the pharisee and sadducee used these titles and we are never to allow the church to become like they were. They exalted themselves to gain the praise of men.
Mat 23:7 and the salutations in the market-places, and to be called by men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
Abi! Abi! Rabi! Rabi! Mori! Mori! exalting themselves among men and at the same time not living up to what they taught.
If Pastor Smith is exalting himself among men or taking the authority that only belongs to God, then he has a spiritual problem. And if those in the church give him that place in their view, they have a spiritual problem.
So maybe you are correct. We should stop using all titles, pastor, elder, etc. Maybe they are stumbling blocks. Do you think that will cause these problems to go away?
Our God is a jealous God. We are not to steal His thunder.
Hello,
I understand the tension of having no need for man to teach us and God giving the gift of teachers . I understand this as we are not listening to the man to teach us it is Christ who teaches the believer who lives in the new man with Christ as his head and then from that he teaches. And those who listen listen for the anointing in then to bear witness according to the scriptures and the light they have. Paul would say things like follow me as I follow Christ . And he would say thingsike , I say, by the grave given unto me (Romans 12) .
And about me telling you or teaching about not needing mAn to teach, I seek to speak from the anointing that I have been given. I listen in my spirit as all should do who speak or hear. Yes, we may need correction also at times. That's why the body edifices itself under Christ headship and exhorts and ministers to one another. So that any part that lacks is supplied by the other parts of the body . Every joint and band has nourishment ministered. But all this is in the new man we only need to hear the new man as he is in Christ . The old man should be crucified. John , who wrote 1 John 2:27 was teaching them. But it wasn't him, rather the word of God and the anointing taught him and he spoke forth from that word, all who were believers also would be taught from the anointing in then. so where is man in his natural ability and in his titles and positional authority over them? John wrote 1John 2:27 to protect from those who were deceiving and seducing them.
Paul said to the Colossians, to let the Word of Christ dwell in them richly. This Word is able to build up all buyers and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. this Word works in those that believe and as they abide in the word and his word abides in them, then all are able to speak and live in that Word. Paul said to the Corimthians, (whom he also taught to live in the word and walk in the word)
36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? "(1 Corinthians 14:36)
Here we see that the word CAME out from them. The word will come out of believers as they let the Word of Christ dwell in them richly. Then,as they walk in the spirit they are able to teach and admonish one another .
Then they are able to abound in all utterance as we read.
2 Corinthians 8:7
Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also. "
1 Corinthians 1:5
That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge; "
And we must all pray for such an utterance to speak as we ought to speak,
Colossians 4:3
Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds: "
all bievers should listen and wait for the Lord in all things and whatsoever we do, in word or deed, to do all in the name (character authority power ) of the Lord Jesus
even as I consider your words I listen on my spirit and I have many words come to my mind and many scriptures. as weak a vessel as I am I seek to always let my words be seasoned with salt and grace .
I pray that the words I speak would be sound words that cannot be condemned. I always seek to have a conscience void of offence . If in anything I am not sound I pray the Lord will reveal this to me through the anointing and I hear His word echoed in many believers as I listen in my Spirit .
Otherwise it will be a riot and a disorderly process of worship. Look at all the feuds that arose because of the home grown religion that started in the 1st century. The people started to revolt against their elders and make false accusations and Paul had to butt in to stop the rioters and assign leaders to make it orderly again.
Home grown religion grew into an evangelists movement that collapsed on itself in later years as all these manuscripts found in these small church groups were found in the thousands and so the question arises, where is the anthropology (cultural), chronology and history to these home grown churches?
They dissolved very quickly because Paul's movement was only temporary and it required an orderly constructed church to carry the baton so to accomodate for the growing congregation.
Yes and it is by Jesus Christ we offer the sacrifice of praise. BY HIM, and he is in the midst of the Church singing praise to God.
as we read,
Hebrews 2:12
Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee."
Hebrews 13:15
By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually,...
and
"I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also." ( 1 Cor 14:15 KJV)
Whoa, hold on. We need to look at that scripture to see what part of speech the words holy and reverend are in Ps 111:9?
'holy' is an adjective, not a pronoun, not a name of God. And reverend is a verb, not a pronoun, not a name of God.
So holy is describing that God's name is holy. ie. green is the shirt.
reverend is a verb
reverend = H3372 = fearing
yaw-ray'
A primitive root; to fear; morally to revere; causatively to frighten: - affright, be (make) afraid, dread (-ful), (put in) fear (-ful, -fully, -ing). (be had in) reverence (-end), X see, terrible (act, -ness, thing).
See here for parts of speech
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/psalms/111-9.htm
The continuous church institution has already been doing this for the last 2000 years. It has a history and chronology and culture. It remains a known quantity throughout the last 2000 years. Since it has grown in membership the congregation needs to be accommodated when they come together in communion in buildings called churches.
Well when someone is saying that Reverend is a name for God and the verse clearly shows that is not what the verse says.......that is why I posted what I did.I don't understand the purpose of you sharing this Hank, but I believe LoveofTruth has addressed this
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