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Authority, are you in it?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Agallagher, Nov 22, 2020 at 7:52 AM.

  1. Agallagher

    Agallagher Undereducated.

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    Hey you,

    Here is a thought provoking question.

    Would you know if there is any scripture that says anyone as a believer has the authority to control another persons life using scripture because they are ordained to do so?

    Here is another question, about Jesus Christ.

    Would you agree that Jesus Christ only spoke with Jews and never to Gentiles? It seems like it would be very hard to be a complete disciple of Christ Jesus if you aren’t Jewish, He hand picked 12 and they were enough, it seems: what do you think about that?
     
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  2. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    1- no as Jesus is our Lord and we are not to lord things over others. Now accountability in a church setting is different and a little leaven leavens the whole lump and there is a biblical way to deal with willful sin in the church.

    2- God had chosen the Jews as His people from the beginning. Jesus went to His people and as Scripture say His own received Him not so the Gentiles were included as the people of God and both Jew and Gentile make up the body of Christ. The Church is one people under the New Covenant. Many OT prophecies predicted the Spirit would be upon all people, all nations and not just the Jews/Israel. We see its fulfillment in Acts and the Epistles.

    hope this helps !!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020 at 8:10 AM
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  3. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Scripture controls those God gave understanding to.

    All believing gentiles were and continue to be made part of biblical Israel.
     
  4. Joyous Song

    Joyous Song Active Member

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    Agallagher: Here is a thought provoking question. Would you know if there is any scripture that says anyone as a believer has the authority to control another persons life using scripture because they are ordained to do so?

    Matt.23 clearly states the scribes and Pharisees sit on the seat of Moshe so listen to what they say but do not follow their example. Likewise in Matt.16 Christ tells Peter he is the rock He will build His Church upon. and at the end of three of the four Gospels if I remembering correctly the disciples and those directly connected to them would be given the right to "loosen and bind" at least till Christ comes again.

    Agallagher: Would you agree that Jesus Christ only spoke with Jews and never to Gentiles? It seems like it would be very hard to be a complete disciple of Christ Jesus if you aren’t Jewish, He hand picked 12 and they were enough, it seems: what do you think about that?

    He also handpicked Paul and sent Him to the gentiles. Why Paul explains in Rom.11, is a mystery we are explaining right now and have several PDF available in Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum:

    Revelation 1: /www.christianforums.com/threads/revelations-chapter-1.8176788/
    Is.28: Isaiah 28 -PDF
    Prophets of the New Covenant: Prophets in the New Covenant
     
  5. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    Yes and no. Objectively many could argue no, subjectively I could argue yes.

    Basically I believe in the basic authority structure you see in the ancient churches like the Catholic church, Orthodox churches etc. Bishops, presbyters and deacons.

    I technically am a lapsed Coptic Orthodox. My wife flaked on the church years before we got divorced. She loved going to the church at least with me. But when I resumed a non traditional work schedule her attendance waned even though she had lots of friendly people in the church, and eventually stopped altogether my occasional church attendance going to special mid week and Saturday evening services soon out stripped hers. And eventually the church people got suspicious obviously assuming a divorce (made worse by the fact I stopped wearing my wedding ring since it bothered me typing on a computer key board). And I felt uncomfortable enough to stop going before the divorce..... And of course the actual divorce does not improve things.


    On the positive side of things coming from the Charismatic movement I have been generally open to the notion of where is God leading me. As well as other issues, especially things like using you spiritual gifts etc. The parable of the talents especially comes to mind, where the wicked servant doesn't use his investment etc. So I have continued on being active in trying to develop ministry or at least help people with the things I have when it comes to teaching, and sometimes prayer, and sometimes even financial and other forms of practical aid.

    There is a saying that "When life gives you lemons make lemonade" and I have tried to do that. Also in theology, philosophy etc. it is recognized that conflict and crises can lead to new solutions and things society needs. And when it comes to my own life, I sort of find the need to try to pioneer something different. I have a lot of experience and education that has mostly gone unused in different fields like psychology (was not able to finish my masters degree to have a career). And that sort of thing can make you sad when you reflect on the past. But their is suppose to be no waste with God.... And all the experiences are suppose to eventually be for out good if we are in Faith.

    So I seem to be on the slow road of trying to carve out some kind of new pathway that can let me use all the stuff I have learned in my life from: psychology, my early years as a Lutheran, my time as a nondenominational Charismatic, 3 years taking courses part time at Fuller Theological seminary, my time studying Orthodoxy, and time spent in the Coptic church. In the past I had some affinity for things like Apologetics, and seem to be doing that, as well as other things like Biblical commentary etc.

    I could easily go back to the Coptic church etc. because their is a lot of things I miss about it. But I think I got more out of attending those kind of churches, that I could really give or make use of my gifts etc. But I believe that God often shows you what to do, by pointing out "the low hanging fruit" around you (In the Bible, their are many occasions where he uses some aspect of what the person has immediately available to them). So I am doing that, but open to change for the future....
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020 at 8:57 AM
  6. SolaChristian

    SolaChristian New Member

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    I'm just curious - why do you interpret Jesus as saying that Peter is the rock upon which he will build his church? Do you think there is a different way of understanding this verse? And the Greek grammar in that verse is actually "whatever you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will have been loosed in heaven". Do you think that this changes the meaning that you ascribed to it?
     
  7. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You speak of twelve hand-picked apostles below. They did have some authority. Ask Ananias with his wife Sapphira.
    I'm thinking of the Centurian, who was not Jewish. Also a Samaritan woman. And right away in Acts an apostle is speaking with an Ethiopian who asks for and receives baptism.
     
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  8. royal priest

    royal priest debtor to grace

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    Hebrews 13:17
    Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

    John 4:7-10
    There came a woman of Samaria to draw water. Jesus said to her, “Give Me a drink.” For His disciples had gone away into the city to buy food. Therefore the Samaritan woman said to Him, “How is it that You, being a Jew, ask me for a drink since I am a Samaritan woman?” (For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.) Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”
     
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  9. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

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    2 Corinthians 1:24. Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy:
    for by faith ye stand.

    The model given is that of a faithful and caring shepherd (pastor).
    1 Peter 5:
    2
    Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly;
    3 nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock;
    4 and when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that does not fade away.

    Those under that authority are to respond in kind.

    Hebrews 13:17. Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.
     
  10. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    Good use of the scriptures brother !!
     
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  11. paul1149

    paul1149 that your faith might rest in the power of God Supporter

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    There are legitimate spheres of authority, such as a boss over an employee, a parent over a minor child, the government over citizens, that Scripture endorses. But beyond that we don't have leave to control anyone. Even God lets people make their own choices.

    Jesus spoke to the Canaanite woman at the well and to the Syro-Phoenician woman with a demonized daughter. He spent time in Samaria and in the regions approaching Tyre and Sidon. It's clear He spoke to non-Jews.
     
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  12. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We have authority over nothing. It is the will of the Father and His authority that rules us. Many do not do the will of the Father thus, are not walking in His Holy Spirit of truth, though we have free will, that freedom can be used for good or bad purposes. Be blessed,
     
  13. Agallagher

    Agallagher Undereducated.

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    You guys/girls are right when it comes down to Jesus speaking to others who were from different regions.

    The mainly the second question is addressed in whom he did give some authority to, that would have only been to the handpicked 12 disciples who were from the nation of Israel who were all Jewish.

    (That authority was basically to share the gospel and to encourage believers in that day to stay in faith and to keep themselves clean and to expect the Lords day for him to come back which the apostle Paul wrote and encouraged many times).​

    It seems as Christians we have no authority over anything at all. In this life individuals will all be responsible from themselves and what they have done in this life good or bad.

    We are to obey those who are over us as some people shared; also it looked like someone did share that even the apostle Paul talked about not having lordship over anyone’s faith.

    • The is a scripture in Titus or Timothy where it talks about bishops who are in charge of a church must be blameless and we as people are far from what the early church ever looked like.


    • No one still give any scriptures that say anyone has the authority over anyones faith, so that is good thing whew.


    Thank you all for the post and hope that it helped.​
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020 at 1:38 PM
  14. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)
     
  15. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    I think we don’t have anything to support the claim Jesus spoke only to gentiles. However, in Bible he says:

    Therefore go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
    Mat. 28:19-20

    That is why I think it is clear that in every nation, it is possible to become a disciple of Jesus.
     
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