Authoritarian parenting

[Serving Zion]

So I came across a Quirk pocket book today: "Stuff Every Mom Should Know" by Heather Gibbs Flett and Whitney Moss. I was reading through it, to make sure it was a worthy gift, and I have decided that I can't endorse it or allow it to influence some person's mother.

Anyhow, the particular issue that I would like to discuss with people that can help me work it out, is from page 49: Cheat Sheet of Parenting Philosophies and Trends.

There is a paragraph there with the title "Authoritarian parenting", and this is what it says:

The parent is the leader, makes decisions, and does not need to rationalize to the child. This style of parenting earned media attention under "Tiger Mom". (Even if you feel you fall far outside this realm, know that at some point we all are driven to say "Because I said so!").

Now, I am not a parent, so I can only imagine the extent of the test of patience that it is. I have all the patience in the world for children, and I've never ended up in that situation where they have driven me to impatience. But I have plenty of experience on the receiving end of the impatience, and even still I have to deal with the likes of them in the present day, people with power who have this mentality that they don't need to rationalize their decisions to me.

Now, I find this is always aptly described as arrogant and abusive. I genuinely do not understand how a person could be comfortable with themselves as being such a person.

To me, "Because I said so" is always a failure and it can only be because they do not like the answer that they would give when they are pressed to explain themselves .. it would reveal that they are making the wrong judgement.

A child, of course, is very discerning and pure in their judgements, and where something doesn't make sense to them, they are entitled by nature to have it explained to them. So puts the child in a position where they feel that the parent is being mean, that they do not understand the child's point of view, and that they don't really care if the child is happy with their decision or not. They are also helpless because the parent is like a giant to them, and they aren't so good at expressing themselves.

It isn't the nature of love, that is compassionate, patient, kind and gentle, open to reason and agreement, loving the truth etc. It's just a heart that really doesn't think of the child as anything more than a thing to be managed.

It breaks my heart when I see children treated that way, and I just can't bear to let it happen in front of me. If I could run away from it I would, but these are children, and when this happens in front of me, I need to intervene for them .. otherwise, what kind of world has it become?

There has been a few occasions where I have had to do that, notably when parents have made their children cry in public, and although I carry in no judgement against the parent and always approach the child first to find out what's wrong and what I can do to help them be happy again, the parents immediately rise up against me.

To me it just seems that the world is going to hell because they are doing whatever they want with no concern for what is right and wrong .. and these are children who are crying for justice and begging to understand why it is wrong to do what they think is ok, and they're getting told to just shut up and do what they're told. .. and now I have just found out that not only is the world failing to bring justice for the children, it it is even going so far as to teach them that it is a valid parenting style!!

.. so, yeah, if there's anyone out there who has something for me that can help, it won't go amiss. Everyone who thinks it's OK to treat children this way, go jump in a lake and stay well away from me.

 

[Rescued One]

I've tried to talk to people about this, but many are annoyed.

Authoritative parenting is what is needed. I started a thread and then abandoned it.
https://www.christianforums.com/thr...vice-you-didnt-request.8060552/#post-72576753

 

[JIMINZ]

There has been a few occasions where I have had to do that, notably when parents have made their children cry in public, and although I carry in no judgement against the parent and always approach the child first to find out what's wrong and what I can do to help them be happy again, the parents immediately rise up against me.

You don't approach the child, first.
You are insinuating yourself into a situation which you have no idea as to what has transpired 1,3,5 hrs earlier which brought them to this situation which is now unfolding in front of you.

They may have risen up against you, I say your lucky someone hasn't knocked your lights out before now.

The parent is intimately involved with the child 24/7 you are not, and to only get a glimpse of an event, does not give you or anyone the right to intervene.

Especially by usurping the parents authority.

If you have something to add to the situation, say it to the parent first, if your scared to do that then keep out of it altogether.

Dr. Spock in the 1950's screwed up a whole generation of kids, and then in the 1980's said "OOPS" I made a mistake, are we today still dealing with the ramifications of his OOPS?

Personally I would never give any such book to anyone.

I have 1 son 43, 1 daughter 11, and another Daughter 6 mo.

My son has 4 Daughters and has said he was glad for the way I raised him and that he is raising his with the same care, love and interest as he had growing up.

Everyone has bad days, it doesn't mean the child is being abused, but that is what our society has turned in to.

Oh, my soapbox just crunched, bye.

 

[Rescued One]

I looked at the online preview at Barnes and Noble and it looks like a good book. I don't think the authors are endorsing authoritarian parenting methods. They defined several styles of parenting so that we can see the differences.

 

[Serving Zion]

I looked at the online preview at Barnes and Noble and it looks like a good book.

It does, that's why I bought it. It is subtle though.

 

[JIMINZ]

I looked at the online preview at Barnes and Noble and it looks like a good book.

.
Unless someone has asked for advice, then we shouldn't assume they need help.

As long as the child is secure in the knowledge that the patents love them, there will always be times when they don't get their way and become upset.

I really do not care for someone who has never walked in the shoes of a parent, advising us who have.

It's not that I know everything, but they just don't have a clue.

I have always said, my child is entitled to voice their opinion on things concerning the family, but just because you have voiced that opinion does not automatically mean that it is the correct thing to do, and I have the overriding vote.

This does not mean we never do what the child wants, but it also doesn't mean I am bulldozed into things I don't think are good either, it's a two way street, and the child has to know and learn that their opinion does in fact matter, it gives them a voice, and that is something which not enough children have, I know I didn't, and I want to make sure my children do, which I have seen does carry over into adulthood.

Authority is good for a child's upbringing, it gives them a sense of security as to where they stand, and that someone IS looking out for their well being, as long as that Authority is tempered with Love, Compassion, Long-suffering, Gentleness, Meekness, Kindness and Charity. the kid will be just fine.

 

[blackribbon]

There are times when authoritarian parenting is the appropriate form of parenting. In the case of an emergency, a child needs to be able to follow directions without needing an explanation or a discussion on the "whys" or "how comes". They need to know how to obey immediately. If you don't practice this during other times, there is no way the child will know how to read his parent and know this is a time for blind and immediate obedience. There are also times when the situation is such that a child isn't old enough or needs to be sheltered from mature situations and may need to obey blindly. A good parent uses different types of parenting as appropriate...and sometimes that may even vary from child to child as well as situation to situation.

The truth is that we all need to learn how to take instruction and follow it without questioning. At work, I don't usually have a vote on new policies even when they are stupid or inefficient....especially when the policies are driven by the accreditation organization who obviously have forgotten what it is like to actually be doing the job being regulated.

And truthfully, there are times when God is an authoritarian parent. When my husband died of cancer, I didn't get to have a discussion with God on "why" this happened. I was asked to trust that God was in control and this was part of His big picture. I have since had the opportunity to see some of the ways God has used his death for good even if I'd still rather have him back. If we do not learn how to trust our parents in authoritarian leadership situations, it has to make it more difficulty to trust that our Heavenly Father in difficult situations when God asks us to trust Him blindly. Blind faith comes from an authoritarian situation. We don't get to discuss the situation until we understand. We trust God simply because "He said so."

 

[Serving Zion]

The key problem is when the child does not trust the parent's judgement, and the parent believes they do not owe the child an explanation. It is distressing, and when it is impossible to escape that tyrannical giant, you are not describing a figure that is like God at all. God is love, and love is patient, kind, gentle, not self-interested but loving justice, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and not hypocritical. Knowing this, you should stop trying to defend that technique.

I am not talking about an emergency when a child naturally knows it is a time for haste. I am saying that hell on earth comes from those parents who dominate and crush innocent children with a punishment of their wrath, only to silence an inconvenient complaint and to avoid an inconvenient truth.

Not only do they not care that the child has a point of view that is valid to the best of his knowledge, but they withhold the wisdom from him that they rely on in their judgement and that he is begging for them to share. They are obligated to do this, because teaching a child is a parent's duty, and yet they believe that the child should comply with an instruction that goes against his better judgement, they use their power to prevent his objection.

This forces the child to cry in agony and that is not OK in my view. Yes, parents are even being taught to think that it is OK for children to cry in bitter distress without a sweet glimpse of sympathy.

I say it again, if you are a person who supports that behaviour, there is a place appointed for you and it is not with me.

 

[Dave-W]

I am not talking about an emergency when a child naturally knows it is a time for haste.

I would hazard a guess (having raised 4 children) that the emergencies are rare enough that the child will NOT "naturally know it is a time for haste." Some kids may, but certainly not all. Probably not even the majority.

 

[Dave-W]

Not only do they not care that the child has a point of view that is valid to the best of his knowledge, but they withhold the wisdom from him that they rely on in their judgement and that he is begging for them to share. They are obligated to do this, because teaching a child is a parent's duty, and yet they believe that the child should comply with an instruction that goes against his better judgement, they use their power to prevent his objection.

I was raised by my dad with this phrase: (among many) "Boys are to be rarely seen and NEVER heard."

So now my wife is frustrated that I do not communicate.

 

[Serving Zion]

I would hazard a guess (having raised 4 children) that the emergencies are rare enough that the child will NOT "naturally know it is a time for haste." Some kids may, but certainly not all. Probably not even the majority.

This is interesting. I wonder how much you can elaborate on this for me. I didn't mean that they would naturally know that a situation of emergency has arisen without being told, but what I did mean is that in a situation of emergency they will be of a nature more likely to make haste than to ask for explanations and to question the parent's judgement in the moment (although it might still happen if the parent is making a sinful judgement - Matthew 19:14).

I was raised by my dad with this phrase: (among many) "Boys are to be rarely seen and NEVER heard."

So now my wife is frustrated that I do not communicate.

Yes, every action is responsible for a consequence. I think a lot of the problems is that children are a byproduct of sex, so they aren't exactly the sole purpose of the family and the parents resent them (I am sorry if this seems a bit rude, I am speaking in general) .. though there is a lot of reasons for a bitterness to arise in a family where the children are resented, perhaps for envy of the unquenchable joy

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

So I came across a Quirk pocket book today: "Stuff Every Mom Should Know" by Heather Gibbs Flett and Whitney Moss. I was reading through it, to make sure it was a worthy gift, and I have decided that I can't endorse it or allow it to influence some person's mother.

Anyhow, the particular issue that I would like to discuss with people that can help me work it out, is from page 49: Cheat Sheet of Parenting Philosophies and Trends.

There is a paragraph there with the title "Authoritarian parenting", and this is what it says:

The parent is the leader, makes decisions, and does not need to rationalize to the child. This style of parenting earned media attention under "Tiger Mom". (Even if you feel you fall far outside this realm, know that at some point we all are driven to say "Because I said so!").

Now, I am not a parent, so I can only imagine the extent of the test of patience that it is. I have all the patience in the world for children, and I've never ended up in that situation where they have driven me to impatience. But I have plenty of experience on the receiving end of the impatience, and even still I have to deal with the likes of them in the present day, people with power who have this mentality that they don't need to rationalize their decisions to me.

Now, I find this is always aptly described as arrogant and abusive. I genuinely do not understand how a person could be comfortable with themselves as being such a person.

To me, "Because I said so" is always a failure and it can only be because they do not like the answer that they would give when they are pressed to explain themselves .. it would reveal that they are making the wrong judgement.

A child, of course, is very discerning and pure in their judgements, and where something doesn't make sense to them, they are entitled by nature to have it explained to them. So puts the child in a position where they feel that the parent is being mean, that they do not understand the child's point of view, and that they don't really care if the child is happy with their decision or not. They are also helpless because the parent is like a giant to them, and they aren't so good at expressing themselves.

It isn't the nature of love, that is compassionate, patient, kind and gentle, open to reason and agreement, loving the truth etc. It's just a heart that really doesn't think of the child as anything more than a thing to be managed.

It breaks my heart when I see children treated that way, and I just can't bear to let it happen in front of me. If I could run away from it I would, but these are children, and when this happens in front of me, I need to intervene for them .. otherwise, what kind of world has it become?

There has been a few occasions where I have had to do that, notably when parents have made their children cry in public, and although I carry in no judgement against the parent and always approach the child first to find out what's wrong and what I can do to help them be happy again, the parents immediately rise up against me.

To me it just seems that the world is going to hell because they are doing whatever they want with no concern for what is right and wrong .. and these are children who are crying for justice and begging to understand why it is wrong to do what they think is ok, and they're getting told to just shut up and do what they're told. .. and now I have just found out that not only is the world failing to bring justice for the children, it it is even going so far as to teach them that it is a valid parenting style!!

.. so, yeah, if there's anyone out there who has something for me that can help, it won't go amiss. Everyone who thinks it's OK to treat children this way, go jump in a lake and stay well away from me.

I noted that you aren't a parent. Sometimes things you don't understand prior to becoming a parent, you understand differently once you become one. I prefer to explain things to everyone; but, there are definitely times when spending time explaining every decision you have to make is impractical and even dangerous. Again, I prefer to reason. I am telling you that my approach hasn't always worked as has led to some very dangerous situations.

 

[blackribbon]

The key problem is when the child does not trust the parent's judgement, and the parent believes they do not owe the child an explanation. It is distressing, and when it is impossible to escape that tyrannical giant, you are not describing a figure that is like God at all. God is love, and love is patient, kind, gentle, not self-interested but loving justice, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and not hypocritical. Knowing this, you should stop trying to defend that technique.

I am not talking about an emergency when a child naturally knows it is a time for haste. I am saying that hell on earth comes from those parents who dominate and crush innocent children with a punishment of their wrath, only to silence an inconvenient complaint and to avoid an inconvenient truth.

Not only do they not care that the child has a point of view that is valid to the best of his knowledge, but they withhold the wisdom from him that they rely on in their judgement and that he is begging for them to share. They are obligated to do this, because teaching a child is a parent's duty, and yet they believe that the child should comply with an instruction that goes against his better judgement, they use their power to prevent his objection.

This forces the child to cry in agony and that is not OK in my view. Yes, parents are even being taught to think that it is OK for children to cry in bitter distress without a sweet glimpse of sympathy.

I say it again, if you are a person who supports that behaviour, there is a place appointed for you and it is not with me.

The key problem in your scenerio is when the child doesn't trust the parent's judgement....either there is something wrong with your parenting or you have not taught your child to trust. No parent owes a child an explanation for bedtime, why they should eat what mother cooked for dinner, or why you don't feel comfortable letting them spend the night at Bobby's house. There is a reason why a parent is a parent and a child is a child. (For example: No child ever thinks he is tired...part of growing up is learning how to eat food even if it isn't your favorite or you won't be able to eat at friends' house....and Bobby's father is known to come home drunk every night after work).

And how exactly will a child know how to act in an emergency if he is never allowed the chance to learn how to act simply because he was told to act. And he won't be allowed to question his teacher at school over every little thing.

I am guessing that you must not have had consistent and loving parents if you think that there is no place in a child's life for authoritative parenting from time to time. I am sorry.

 

[blackribbon]

This is interesting. I wonder how much you can elaborate on this for me. I didn't mean that they would naturally know that a situation of emergency has arisen without being told, but what I did mean is that in a situation of emergency they will be of a nature more likely to make haste than to ask for explanations and to question the parent's judgement in the moment (although it might still happen if the parent is making a sinful judgement - Matthew 19:14).

How about when confronted by an angry snake when walking with daddy in the country? The child needs to respond immediately to a firm "STOP!" and not keep going while asking "Why daddy? I want to catch that butterfly" (yes, this is a real situation...along with "get behind me" when confronting an angry cow...etc)

 

[PloverWing]

The effectiveness of authoritarian parenting vs explanatory parenting depends some on the individual child, and also on the situation.

My children needed explanations. They needed to know why it's important to eat your vegetables, why it's bad to leave your shoes in the middle of the living room floor, and on and on. They didn't have much use for authority for its own sake, but they would do what was good if they could see why it was good.

Now that they're young adults, my children have told me that they wished that they'd had more explanations along the way -- even though I felt like I was explaining everything in the universe to them when they were kids.

By contrast, two of my nephews respond well to authority. They don't want to hear the explanations; they just want to hear what it is that they're supposed to do. So a lot of this is the child's personality.

Even if you have an explanation-based parenting style, there's an exception that comes to mind. Sometimes when kids ask "why", they're not really asking "why"; they're saying that they don't want to follow your instructions. If you really need them to follow your instructions, and no explanation is persuading them, because they just don't want to do it, then occasionally it comes to "just do it" -- essentially, "because I said so". But that was my last resort, not my first resort.

As to emergencies: Usually, if something really dangerous is going on, there's a particular super-serious tone of voice that I automatically fall into, and a particular body language that's very focused, and my children have been able to pick up on that and understand that this situation is different and serious.

 

[blackribbon]

The effectiveness of authoritarian parenting vs explanatory parenting depends some on the individual child, and also on the situation.

My children needed explanations. They needed to know why it's important to eat your vegetables, why it's bad to leave your shoes in the middle of the living room floor, and on and on. They didn't have much use for authority for its own sake, but they would do what was good if they could see why it was good.

Now that they're young adults, my children have told me that they wished that they'd had more explanations along the way -- even though I felt like I was explaining everything in the universe to them when they were kids.

By contrast, two of my nephews respond well to authority. They don't want to hear the explanations; they just want to hear what it is that they're supposed to do. So a lot of this is the child's personality.

Even if you have an explanation-based parenting style, there's an exception that comes to mind. Sometimes when kids ask "why", they're not really asking "why"; they're saying that they don't want to follow your instructions. If you really need them to follow your instructions, and no explanation is persuading them, because they just don't want to do it, then occasionally it comes to "just do it" -- essentially, "because I said so". But that was my last resort, not my first resort.

As to emergencies: Usually, if something really dangerous is going on, there's a particular super-serious tone of voice that I automatically fall into, and a particular body language that's very focused, and my children have been able to pick up on that and understand that this situation is different and serious.

I am guessing that you didn't feel the need to explain the same things over and over as they revisited the same topic. Or did you really sit down and explain why it was important to eat their veggies every time you sat at the table. And did you allow them to "opt out" if they didn't agree that it was necessary to eat a veggie on any particular day?

 

[Serving Zion]

No parent owes a child an explanation for bedtime, why they should eat what mother cooked for dinner, or why you don't feel comfortable letting them spend the night at Bobby's house.

This is not a fair and reasonable way to treat a person whom you are exercising power over .. can you confirm for me whether you believe a parent should be fair and reasonable with their children?

 

[JIMINZ]

This is not a fair and reasonable way to treat a person whom you are exercising power over .. can you confirm for me whether you believe a parent should be fair and reasonable with their children?

.
Any child, only has whatever rights the parent affords that child.

You can talk, negotiate, reason with, and cajole but in the end the parent has the final say on any matter.

There are some occasions when some input from the child may be beneficial to a reasonable outcome, but when a parent negotiates with a child on a regular basis, the parent has lost all, authority....Especially when in an argument with that same child.

 

[Hazelelponi]

The key problem is when the child does not trust the parent's judgement, and the parent believes they do not owe the child an explanation. It is distressing, and when it is impossible to escape that tyrannical giant, you are not describing a figure that is like God at all. God is love, and love is patient, kind, gentle, not self-interested but loving justice, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and not hypocritical. Knowing this, you should stop trying to defend that technique.

I am not talking about an emergency when a child naturally knows it is a time for haste. I am saying that hell on earth comes from those parents who dominate and crush innocent children with a punishment of their wrath, only to silence an inconvenient complaint and to avoid an inconvenient truth.

Not only do they not care that the child has a point of view that is valid to the best of his knowledge, but they withhold the wisdom from him that they rely on in their judgement and that he is begging for them to share. They are obligated to do this, because teaching a child is a parent's duty, and yet they believe that the child should comply with an instruction that goes against his better judgement, they use their power to prevent his objection.

This forces the child to cry in agony and that is not OK in my view. Yes, parents are even being taught to think that it is OK for children to cry in bitter distress without a sweet glimpse of sympathy.

I say it again, if you are a person who supports that behaviour, there is a place appointed for you and it is not with me.

I had a niece by marriage who was told not to go into the road for any reason, that it was dangerous.

They lived quite a distance from other people, but the house was near a road where people drove fast on when they did drive down the road, and the house was at the bottom of a blind hill.

So, it was one of the few rules the parents had - don't go into the road it's dangerous. You could get hurt or die if you go into the road.

by the time children are a little older you figure you've trained them right, and they can follow the rules.

One day this niece was playing in the yard, and her ball she was playing with went into the road. She went to get it out of the road against the rules and was stuck by a car and killed. She was 10 and had lived in that house with those same rules since the day she was born.

Children obeying their parents is life and death. Period. It's life and death.

25 years after that little girl died I sat and held my FIL's hand while he cried over her loss.. and his guilt, he blamed himself for not being strict enough, for not making it clearer. No child ever played outside again without an adult present, not even if they were 20.

Kids don't always understand the reason why they can't have that doll at the store, or why throwing themselves on the ground screaming because they aren't getting what they want is wrong, or why they shouldn't run into the road or talk to strangers, or why they can't have ice cream before dinner..they arent old enough to always understand the reason.

But what they need to understand, what can never be disputed, is that if there is a rule it MUST be followed...

And you, as someone who isn't even a parent have zero business telling anyone how to raise their child. When you have kids then you raise them as you see fit, but the raising of anyone's child is the parents job. Period.

No parent is willing to wait until they are identifying their childs dead body in a morgue somewhere.

 

[Serving Zion]

Awww.. I am so sorry that I have to speak about this, let us observe silence for a moment.