• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

Australia goes sub nuclear

Discussion in 'News & Current Events (Articles Required)' started by Tanj, Sep 16, 2021.

  1. Tanj

    Tanj Redefined comfortable middle class

    +7,157
    Australia
    Atheist
    Married
    So our Prime Minster, Scotty from Marketing, has added another blunder to his bag-o-blunders by scrapping an existing 90 billion dollar diesel based submarine fleet upgrade (on which several billion has already been spent and who knows how many billions more will be paid for the contract break) to maybe in 10-20 years get us some nuclear powered (but not armed) submarines which we will be unable to service (since we have no nuclear industry), man (since we have no sailors with nuclear sub experience) and which will be less agile and more unwieldy in our coastal waters....but hey, we can wander off an spook China, so hurray.

    Morrison has gone nuclear — and there's no turning back

    That's quite a long read, but the best (prophetic given when it was made) summary can be found here
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. 1rreducibly Complex

    1rreducibly Complex Newbie

    385
    +203
    Christian
    Single
    Isn't australia one of many foreign nations that drastically cut its military and defense spending.

    Assuming the united states would always be there to protect them from russia and china.

    This response is too little, too late.
     
  3. Tanj

    Tanj Redefined comfortable middle class

    +7,157
    Australia
    Atheist
    Married
    nope.

    Protect us from what, exactly?

    You seriously have no understanding, not even a little bit, of our geopolitical position.
     
  4. 1rreducibly Complex

    1rreducibly Complex Newbie

    385
    +203
    Christian
    Single


    Maybe you missed past history when the USA was tasked with building a missile shield around russia to contain it. Maybe you missed past history when russia threatened to invade either switzerland or sweden.

    Maybe you missed china's announcement when they redrew maps which made hawaii and the entire pacific their future territory.

    Maybe you missed china's attempts to wage a passive war on taiwan, japan and hong kong. In order to push their expansionist future plans. Which could include an expansion into taking over australia.

    Maybe one of us doesn't entirely understand the geopolitical positions present.

    (But somehow I don't think that person is me.)

    China is building 3 or 4 aircraft carriers right now. Have you ever wondered why they're being built?
     
  5. Tanj

    Tanj Redefined comfortable middle class

    +7,157
    Australia
    Atheist
    Married
    I sure did! Please provide evidence of Russia doing this (as opposed to the now non existent USSR). And then explain how that is relevant to Australia.

    Sure did. Missed the part where that is relevant to Australia as well.

    Missed that too. Evidence would be nice at this point, perhaps start with the definition of a "passive war", and then move on the Japan and likely take over of Australia bit.

    Well that's definitely true.

    You think incorrectly.
     
  6. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

    +8,019
    Non-Denom
    Single
    US-Republican
    Well, you have two allies with 60 to 70-ish years of experience with these that you would likely be able to train with in some capacity (though likely limited). And the US Navy built its first nuclear sub before there was a nuclear power plant attached to our power grid.

    Enjoy the subs, I think your navy will like them once they are built to meet your countries defense needs. Just don't embarrass yourselves like Russia did.
     
  7. Tanj

    Tanj Redefined comfortable middle class

    +7,157
    Australia
    Atheist
    Married
    I'm 56, not sure I'll even be alive by the time they are built. The only way to meet our defense needs is to make them small diesel subs.
     
  8. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

    +8,019
    Non-Denom
    Single
    US-Republican
    Reactors can be made much smaller and cleaner now. And, they're better when it comes to climate change.
     
  9. 1rreducibly Complex

    1rreducibly Complex Newbie

    385
    +203
    Christian
    Single
    Australia will never receive these subs.

    For the same reasons the eurofighter typhoon was a disaster.

    US healthcare will never be fixed.

    And california will never see a completion to their high speed rail project.

    Someone bump this post years from now, when this is confirmed, so people can know its not hard to anticipate or predict future outcomes for those who pay attention and bother to learn the basic facts on things.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
  10. sjastro

    sjastro Newbie

    +1,995
    Christian
    Single
    There is a silver lining to this as the comedian turned lawyer Corrine Grant stated we now have the time to equip the Australian Navy with snorkels and flippers.
     
  11. Petros2015

    Petros2015 Well-Known Member

    +2,866
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    Ulp.

    ... Amazon package delivery drops? *hopeful*
     
  12. wing2000

    wing2000 E pluribus unum Supporter

    +11,743
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    "We're spending 30 Billion dollars a year to protect our trade with China.....from China"

    [Maybe Amazon should pitch in]
     
  13. timewerx

    timewerx the village i--o--t--

    +5,101
    Christian Seeker
    Single
    Australia have particle beam weapons anyway but they're pointed out into space for killing threats from space, they should figure out how to aim it at targets over land or water.
     
  14. Petros2015

    Petros2015 Well-Known Member

    +2,866
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    Take THAT Jewish Space Laser!
     
  15. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

    +6,520
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I don’t think that Australia is a foreign nation to the OP.
     
  16. Gene2memE

    Gene2memE Newbie

    +4,561
    Atheist
    Private
    In some ways a stupid decision, and in some ways a smart one.

    In the short term, rather dumb. It creates capacity gap of 10 to 15 years, potentially even more. The existing Collins class subs are outdated and weren't particularly good when new (a friend of mine was part of the engineering team in Adelaide, and he has a thing or two to tell about them). So keeping them in service beyond 2035 and potentially beyond 2045 is more than a little silly

    In the long term, reasonably smart. It adds a new capacity to the RAN and (depending on the purchase) provides a sizable improvement over the planned conventional submarine. However, Australia was already going with a conventional version of a nuclear powered sub - Thales et al have got to be cheesed off that they didn't decide to just move ahead with the nuclear version.

    Likelihood is that Australia will select the UK's Astute class. The other possibility is the updated Virginia class, but it's probably too much sub at better than 10,000 tons.

    If we're sensible, we'll probably run with a copy of India's 'outsource-insource' defence procurement strategy: have the first couple made to requirements in the country of design, then move production locally once a lot of the hard lessons have been learned.

    I suspect that once delays are announced - it's a big defense contract, there's always delays - Australia will probably end up leasing some second hand diesel-electrics from somewhere in the interim.

    So, new submarine by 2040-2045, here we come.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  17. timewerx

    timewerx the village i--o--t--

    +5,101
    Christian Seeker
    Single
    Both of them got huge help from USA in developing those weapons. But OZ's particle beam packs a much bigger punch, it can destroy much larger objects and the beam also packs a lethal dose of radiation and powerful EMP that can fry electrical systems. It's like getting hit by a mini nuke.

    The only drawback of OZ "Death ray" is the beam produced is much slower than the speed of light and it's much more complicated to aim...

    Same reason it's probably difficult to use it to destroy land or sea targets. It's ground based (too big to be put on a plane) and the beam cannot be reflected by mirrors.
     
  18. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

    +6,454
    Australia
    Non-Denom
    Divorced
    Australia's defence procurement is as much a disaster as everyone else's. Having spent 8-1/2 years in the RAN, I have a certain amount of experience. I don't see a problem with nuclear subs. The ranks of submariners with conventional experience are pretty thin. It may attract people to the submarine service. Conventional subs are nowhere near as comfortable as nuclear.

    The biggest problem that I see is the continual waste of money. Defence is notorious for buying high value items that just don't work. Helicopters, for example. JSF may be another. There is not enough data to be sure.

    I'm also concerned about recruitment. I'm not convinced that a bunch of woke, progressive snowflakes will make good servicemen and women. And whatever else the military is forced to employ. Unfortunately, Australia is headed in that direction. Thank God for God. He's bigger than all this.
     
  19. Tanj

    Tanj Redefined comfortable middle class

    +7,157
    Australia
    Atheist
    Married
    And yet you constantly succeed in making him appear small and petty.
     
  20. MyOwnSockPuppet

    MyOwnSockPuppet Regeneration of myself after computer failure

    613
    +285
    Atheist
    Married
    I thought the easiest and cheapest way to meet Australia's defense needs was the rich and glorious variety of venomous and poisonous reptiles, arthropods, gastropods, jellyfish, molluscs, insects, fish, plants and mammals.
    If that doesn't deter a potential invader then the sharks and crocodiles and general uninhabitability of huge tracts of the interior might work.

    If all else fails threaten to feed them to the drop bears...
    Dropbear.jpg
     
Loading...