ATTN Seniors: Trumps calls for cuts to Social Security, Medicare

[iluvatar5150]

It's the military. It's not a political idiology. It's not socialist, or capitalist or libertarian. It's just a goofy argument.

Socialism isn't merely a political ideology, either. It's an economic system characterized by social ownership of the means of production. Among the industries in which the military participates are: security, law enforcement, retail, engineering and construction, health care (if you count the VA), and scientific and industrial research.

 

[rjs330]

Socialism isn't merely a political ideology, either. It's an economic system characterized by social ownership of the means of production. Among the industries in which the military participates are: security, law enforcement, retail, engineering and construction, health care (if you count the VA), and scientific and industrial research.

The military is not an economic system either.

 

[iluvatar5150]

The military is not an economic system either.

It's a socially-owned means of production.

 

[essentialsaltes]

The military is not an economic system either.

'Healthcare' is not an economic system, but some people start shouting socialism if we use people's tax money to pay for it.

 

[rjs330]

It's a socially-owned means of production.

No it's not, it's the military. It's not socialism. It's a public institution not and individual. It's a governments responsibility to protect it's citizens and borders. In fact the military is outlined in the Constitution as a common defence.

It's not a socialist redistribution of wealth.

 

[iluvatar5150]

No it's not, it's the military. It's not socialism. It's a public institution not and individual. It's a governments responsibility to protect it's citizens and borders. In fact the military is outlined in the Constitution as a common defence.

It's not a socialist redistribution of wealth.

Do you even know what you’re arguing? Nobody said anything about redistribution of wealth. Whether or not you think something is the government’s responsibility has nothing to do with whether or not it fits with a socialist paradigm.

 

[Always in His Presence]

It's a socially-owned means of production.

What does the Military produce?

There are industries that make money off the needs of the military, but what exactly does the Military produce ("means of production")?

 

[TLK Valentine]

What does the Military produce?

There are industries that make money off the needs of the military, but what exactly does the Military produce ("means of production")?

Point taken.... it's more of a money pit.

 

[rjs330]

Do you even know what you’re arguing? Nobody said anything about redistribution of wealth. Whether or not you think something is the government’s responsibility has nothing to do with whether or not it fits with a socialist paradigm.

I think you don't know what your arguing. Its a great tactic of the left to attribute socialism to things that are not really socialism. They do it to try and push the socialist agenda.

They know conservatives appreciate the military so come up with a cockamamie theory to say, see socialism isn't so bad. The military is socialist so you conservatives really do like socialism. The fact of the matter is socialism is redistribution if wealth and control over citizens lives by the government. While the military is a public institution designed to protect and defend the Constitution, the citizens and borders of this sovereign nation. It's there to protect our freedoms. It's not there to take from some people in order to give to others.

 

[rjs330]

'Healthcare' is not an economic system, but some people start shouting socialism if we use people's tax money to pay for it.

Healthcare is certainly part of the economic system. It's 18% of the GDP. And it becomes socialism when you use taxpayer money to fund it all and then control people's care with it.

 

[iluvatar5150]

What does the Military produce?

There are industries that make money off the needs of the military, but what exactly does the Military produce ("means of production")?

It mostly produces services rather than goods. As I’ve already pointed out, those services include:

Security
Healthcare
Law Enforcement
Engineering and Construction
Scientific and Industrial Research

To a smaller degree, it engages in retail and entertainment services, mostly directed towards service personnel. And you could argue that the construction bit produces goods, though that’s relatively small, too.

I think you don't know what your arguing. Its a great tactic of the left to attribute socialism to things that are not really socialism. They do it to try and push the socialist agenda.

They know conservatives appreciate the military so come up with a cockamamie theory to say, see socialism isn't so bad. The military is socialist so you conservatives really do like socialism. The fact of the matter is socialism is redistribution if wealth and control over citizens lives by the government. While the military is a public institution designed to protect and defend the Constitution, the citizens and borders of this sovereign nation. It's there to protect our freedoms.

No, that isn’t what socialism is. Your definition is nothing more than a ridiculous boogeyman sold to you bunch a bunch of ignorant, dishonest right-wing pundits. Trying pulling something from a textbook next time instead of Sean Hannity’s blog.

It's not there to take from some people in order to give to others.

And yet, that’s exactly what it does much of the time. At this point, the military exists to protect jobs more than it does to protect our security. Watch what happens when the DOD tries to cut a weapons program that isn’t needed or rearrange bases. Politicians crawl out of the woodwork to salvage any scraps they can for their districts, regardless of whether or not it’s actually needed. My hometown is still trying to cling to some DFAS offices and AFRL labs that don’t really need to be there anymore after BRAC shut down the main parts of the base in the 90’s.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Healthcare is certainly part of the economic system.

So is the military.

It's 18% of the GDP.

The military is 3% of GDP.

And it becomes socialism when you use taxpayer money to fund it all and then control people's care with it.

Taxpayer money funds 100% of the military expenses, but it is centrally controlled by the government.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Actually the military is quite like a socialist country.

You are told where to live, what your job will be, when you can eat, what you can eat, when you can have access to healthcare and to what extent you can receive benefits.

you have limited choices and are almost completely dependent on the powers over you in almost every aspect of life with severely limited choices and punitive actions taken if you try to deviate from governmental policies

you are correct, just like socialism.

 

[rjs330]

It mostly produces services rather than goods. As I’ve already pointed out, those services include:

Security
Healthcare
Law Enforcement
Engineering and Construction
Scientific and Industrial Research

To a smaller degree, it engages in retail and entertainment services, mostly directed towards service personnel. And you could argue that the construction bit produces goods, though that’s relatively small, too.





No, that isn’t what socialism is. Your definition is nothing more than a ridiculous boogeyman sold to you bunch a bunch of ignorant, dishonest right-wing pundits. Trying pulling something from a textbook next time instead of Sean Hannity’s blog.



And yet, that’s exactly what it does much of the time. At this point, the military exists to protect jobs more than it does to protect our security. Watch what happens when the DOD tries to cut a weapons program that isn’t needed or rearrange bases. Politicians crawl out of the woodwork to salvage any scraps they can for their districts, regardless of whether or not it’s actually needed. My hometown is still trying to cling to some DFAS offices and AFRL labs that don’t really need to be there anymore after BRAC shut down the main parts of the base in the 90’s.

Please give me a socialist country that doesn't do exactly what I said. Oh, socialism sounds really nice in theory, but in practice it's exactly what I said. There hasn't been a single socialist country that hasn't done exactly what I said it does.

As far as the military is concerned and your points about protecting jobs and politicians protecting stuff, I can't argue that. I agree. But politicians so that for everything that affects their districts and the jobs in the districts. That's what they do. But that doesn't make it socialist. It's not.

But socialism is all about taking money from people and giving it to others. It's about government control that people willingly turn over to the government. They give up HUGE chunks of their income to the government and let the government control large chunks of their freedom.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Please give me a socialist country that doesn't do exactly what I said. Oh, socialism sounds really nice in theory, but in practice it's exactly what I said. There hasn't been a single socialist country that hasn't done exactly what I said it does.

As far as the military is concerned and your points about protecting jobs and politicians protecting stuff, I can't argue that. I agree. But politicians so that for everything that affects their districts and the jobs in the districts. That's what they do. But that doesn't make it socialist. It's not.

But socialism is all about taking money from people and giving it to others. It's about government control that people willingly turn over to the government. They give up HUGE chunks of their income to the government and let the government control large chunks of their freedom.

Again, go read a textbook - or heck, even wikipedia - instead of just repeating nonsense from talk radio. I’m not going to argue with you if you can’t even get basic concepts right.

 

[rjs330]

So is the military.



The military is 3% of GDP.



Taxpayer money funds 100% of the military expenses, but it is centrally controlled by the government.

Private funding for the military is 3% of the GDP. The military doesn't make its own equipment and buys it from the private sector. Totally different from healthcare. All of healthcare is private. Doctors choose how much to charge people. Hospitals are privately run.

The military is 100% run by the government. It's an institution of the government just like the FBI, CIA, The State Department or any other government department or institution you can think of. It's not socialism unless you are trying to say all government is socialism.

 

[rjs330]

Again, go read a textbook - or heck, even wikipedia - instead of just repeating nonsense from talk radio. I’m not going to argue with you if you can’t even get basic concepts right.

Oh I've read the definition. Like I said, it sounds nice in theory. However when put into actual practice it NEVER works like the definition. Never. That's why it's bad.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Oh I've read the definition. Like I said, it sounds nice in theory. However when put into actual practice it NEVER works like the definition. Never. That's why it's bad.

Then, at best, you’re conflating “socialism” the sort of overbearing big brother state of right-wing fever dreams with “socialism” the economic system that the rest of us are talking about.

Howsabout actually addressing what we’re talking about and not something else?

 

[rjs330]

Then, at best, you’re conflating “socialism” the sort of overbearing big brother state of right-wing fever dreams with “socialism” the economic system that the rest of us are talking about.

Howsabout actually addressing what we’re talking about and not something else?

You still haven't produced any real world applications of socialism anywhere where it's not exactly what I said it was. Pie in the sky Utopia doesn't happen in the real world.

And we veered into this topic because one of your left wing compadres tried to tell us that having a military is socialism. Trying to convince us socialism is good.

 

[Speedwell]

You still haven't produced any real world applications of socialism anywhere where it's not exactly what I said it was. Pie in the sky Utopia doesn't happen in the real world.

And we veered into this topic because one of your left wing compadres tried to tell us that having a military is socialism. Trying to convince us socialism is good.

It's a bootless task, because you have never been honest about what you call "socialism." That's what the business about calling the military "socialist" is all about--it's nothing but a jab at your True Scotsman.