Attitude Towards Virginity

[fishstix]

I've noticed a trend in threads on various boards on this forum on the topic of virginity and the hope for a virgin spouse. Some people will start by saying that they value virginity and are saving themselves and hope for a virgin spouse. And then others start condemning them for being judgemental towards non-virgins etc.

Why do so many people, on a Christian forum, have a negative attitude towards those who are virgins and hope that their spouse will be too? One would almost think that that hoping for a virgin spouse is a terrible sin in some people's eyes, perhaps even that it is worse to hope for a virgin spouse than to have premarital sex. What's the deal with that?

 

[Starcradle]

This is merely conjecture, yet perhaps a certain number among those offended have already engaged in premarital relations (some before coming to the Lord) and are fearful of being judged/rejected upon that basis. Other Christians may adopt a negative attitude because they do not consider premarital relations a transgression (classifying adultery alone as being "fornication") and hence scoff at the idea of virginity altogether. Still others may react defensively because they have fallen into sexual immorality and are seeking to justify it or conceal from themselves the truth of its spiritually destructive results.

I understand and share your frustration, fishstix. Yet as you well know, it is not surprising when people deem what is bad, good and what is good, bad. Sharing one's body with the man/woman you are married to, and with he/she alone, is the Biblical ideal and yes, I become very disheartened when I see it being condemned.

 

[Donny_B]

Just concentrate on staying within the will of God and you will avoid a lot of problems.

 

[jenptcfan]

I think it's great to commit to staying a virgin and/or hope for a virgin spouse. If you have remained a virgin and want a virgin spouse, I think God will bless that.

I think the sticking point is that some people see sexual sin as the unpardonable sin...or as if it's SO bad that they could never see a spouse separate from that. That comes through in some posts and is really discouraging to the folks who have engaged in sexual sin in the past but have repented, turned from their ways, and are forgiven by God. It takes a lot to forgive oneself in the aftermath of sexual sin...definately a lot longer than it takes God to forgive! And once you get to the point where you can accept yourself again and realize that God has washed you whiter than snow, you kinda start to feel confident again that you MIGHT be good enough for a relationship with a Christian spouse...and BAM you read a post saying that a Godly spouse wouldn't even consider you because you have a past which doesn't even exist anymore in God's eyes. It's just discouraging and it tears open a wound. Seems to magnify a past sin and say "this person isn't good enough for me because of something she did in the past and has no way of going back to change...and it doesn't matter how much the person has grown spiritually since that time and what other wonderful qualities she would have as a wife and mother because she just can't make up for that one mistake years ago."

I know that all that is probably not the intention of all the people who post in threads like that. (And I don't read that into every post that says 'I want a virgin wife/husband'...just some of them).

 

[harmmony]

As someone who has sexual sin in my past, operative word - past. So here are my answers to your question, hope to stay on topic.

Firstly we ALL have sin in our past, all sin being equal sexual sin is no worse than any other kind.

Secondly, since I became saved, I reinstated my virginity and I have been saving myself, and living with all the temptations and issues that brings up. So, just because a person has been saving themselves for longer than I have doesn't make them more pure than I am. And I don't believe a person has to actually have sex in order to commit sexual sin, you can do it in your mind and heart much more easily, so who but God is to say that anyone has or has not committed sexual sin.

And let me say, that I do not think there is anything at all wrong with HOPING for a virgin spouse, if you are a virgin. My issue is with those who have said that they would outright not consider marrying anyone who wasn't a virgin, that is judgemental and completely sinful as far as I'm concerned. To condemn anyone for a past they can't change is completely unChrist-like. I would be far more concerned about possible soul ties and emotional connections to people from the past, which may be the case for a virgin or a non-virgin.

 

[MrsGnomeCrusher]

Why do so many people, on a Christian forum, have a negative attitude towards those who are virgins and hope that their spouse will be too? One would almost think that that hoping for a virgin spouse is a terrible sin in some people's eyes, perhaps even that it is worse to hope for a virgin spouse than to have premarital sex. What's the deal with that?

I see it the total opposite on here. I don't see that people are negative towards people who are virgins. Rather I see a negative towards people who aren't.

Then again, I may be sensitive because before I found the Lord, I had relations with men. As jenptcfan stated, (this statement is true for me) I still dwell on it even though He has forgiven me. Then I read such posts where people who wouldn't consider marrying someone who isn't a virgin, and they start condemning me for my past. Although it really doesn't matter what others think, sometimes it starts to eat away at me.

Is this really THAT big of an importance that makes a person who they are? I understand that there are people who have led a Christian life since they are born and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I can understand how they must be treated by other people in society because sex is perceived as such a casual, meaningless event that "it's no big deal." However, in turn, some virgins treat people who have had relations with judgement and scorn.

The facts are that none of us have walked in each other's shoes. None of us know why another person did what they did or didn't do or their reasoning behind it. Judgement is reserved on God and not anyone on this earth.

 

[Sign Of The Fish Burger]

As someone who has sexual sin in my past, operative word - past. So here are my answers to your question, hope to stay on topic.

Firstly we ALL have sin in our past, all sin being equal sexual sin is no worse than any other kind.

Secondly, since I became saved, I reinstated my virginity and I have been saving myself, and living with all the temptations and issues that brings up. So, just because a person has been saving themselves for longer than I have doesn't make them more pure than I am. And I don't believe a person has to actually have sex in order to commit sexual sin, you can do it in your mind and heart much more easily, so who but God is to say that anyone has or has not committed sexual sin.

And let me say, that I do not think there is anything at all wrong with HOPING for a virgin spouse, if you are a virgin. My issue is with those who have said that they would outright not consider marrying anyone who wasn't a virgin, that is judgemental and completely sinful as far as I'm concerned. To condemn anyone for a past they can't change is completely unChrist-like. I would be far more concerned about possible soul ties and emotional connections to people from the past, which may be the case for a virgin or a non-virgin.

Great posst. I couldnt have said it better myself.
YOu hit the nail on the head with that one.

 

[Lucubratus]

I see it the total opposite on here. I don't see that people are negative towards people who are virgins. Rather I see a negative towards people who aren't.

Then again, I may be sensitive because before I found the Lord, I had relations with men. As jenptcfan stated, (this statement is true for me) I still dwell on it even though He has forgiven me. Then I read such posts where people who wouldn't consider marrying someone who isn't a virgin, and they start condemning me for my past. Although it really doesn't matter what others think, sometimes it starts to eat away at me.

Is this really THAT big of an importance that makes a person who they are? I understand that there are people who have led a Christian life since they are born and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I can understand how they must be treated by other people in society because sex is perceived as such a casual, meaningless event that "it's no big deal." However, in turn, some virgins treat people who have had relations with judgement and scorn.

The facts are that none of us have walked in each other's shoes. None of us know why another person did what they did or didn't do or their reasoning behind it. Judgement is reserved on God and not anyone on this earth.

Hey I remember that post and commented on it a time (or two? I forget) but I agree with you Caelda. I'm not a virgin and was deflowered even as a believer and had already been baptized :o , I just did the usual stupid things people do - fell into temptation and all that other stuff. I used to torment myself too much on that and really, please try not to let it gnaw at you anymore - despite what people say, listen to the rational responses like what Signs of the Fish wrote, that's an inteliigent response. If someone's being argumentitive or negative about it, it hardly serves any purpose.

Might add - dwelling on it and feeling like **** about it is sinful as well. Didn't say that to make anybody feel worse

 

[MrsGnomeCrusher]

Hey I remember that post and commented on it a time (or two? I forget) but I agree with you Caelda. I'm not a virgin and was deflowered even as a believer and had already been baptized :o , I just did the usual stupid things people do - fell into temptation and all that other stuff. I used to torment myself too much on that and really, please try not to let it gnaw at you anymore - despite what people say, listen to the rational responses like what Signs of the Fish wrote, that's an inteliigent response. If someone's being argumentitive or negative about it, it hardly serves any purpose.

Might add - dwelling on it and feeling like **** about it is sinful as well. Didn't say that to make anybody feel worse

I know. Ain't that a kicker? I don't really dwell on it anymore. It's just sometimes when I read these threads that I start self-doubting a bit. Then I have to re-realize that it really doesn't matter what anyone says or thinks. I think everyone should remember that. If someone judges you for being a virgin or not being a virgin, than that's something they need to deal with themselves.

 

[Lucubratus]

If someone judges you for being a virgin or not being a virgin, than that's something they need to deal with themselves.

Amen to that - some of us don't even what to be reminded of high school let along things done 10 years ago or even 2 years! If a person has resolved it on their own or through God, then it's done and over with.
For me anyway. Wish others would extend the same courtesy.

 

[mina]

I think it's ok to want a spouse that's a virgin. But you shouldn't think your life is ruined it the person you love happens to have a past. God will bless what He has brought together. I think it really depends on their heart and if they are living for God now, rather than what mistakes they made in the past. Everyone has made mistakes-sexual or non.

 

[Echoes Peak]

Ditto to what the past four women said...because they said it so well.

 

[fishstix]

So basically, the problem is that people tend to take general comments about virginity personally? It works the other way too though. In real life, in the secular world, virgins are routinely ridiculed by peers because of their virginity. Posts that condemn the desire for a virgin spouse can make a person who is a virgin and wants to marry a virgin feel like a terrible person - which is really not what one expects in Christian surroundings. One expects the value of virginity to be something frowned upon by non-Christian peers but when the same thing happens in a Christian community, it almost makes one ashamed of valuing virginity, perhaps even ashamed of being a virgin.

My next question is:

Many people have standards in mind for their future spouse. For example, a person may be looking for someone who is a Christian (or even a member of a certain denomination), who is a virgin, and who is not obese. And it would be a bonus if the person had some other qualities. They will state that other qualities don't matter so much, but they really want someone with those 3 main qualities, and probably wouldn't consider marrying someone who doesn't at least meet those. If they post that, the person will probably receive little to no negative posts about desiring a Christian who isn't obese, but they will get many replys telling them that they shouldn't insist that their potential spouse must be a virgin.

Why is it that those who outright state that they will not marry an obese person don't get the same sort of response as those who state that they will not marry a non-virgin?

 

[Lucubratus]

So basically, the problem is that people tend to take general comments about virginity personally? It works the other way too though. In real life, in the secular world, virgins are routinely ridiculed by peers because of their virginity. Posts that condemn the desire for a virgin spouse can make a person who is a virgin and wants to marry a virgin feel like a terrible person - which is really not what one expects in Christian surroundings. One expects the value of virginity to be something frowned upon by non-Christian peers but when the same thing happens in a Christian community, it almost makes one ashamed of valuing virginity, perhaps even ashamed of being a virgin.

No. The problem is that people are taking individual situations and generalizing them with the masses.
I know there's a lot of generalizations on the forum and in real life and the media does tend to go by the status quo, but where I live at I sometimes see reports on the news about girls and guys in secular high school making abstaining pacts to themselves and then some girls openly declaring their virginity and have said the reactions have been mixed by their peers. I'm surprised they actually reported it since it's not "the norm".
Some of their peers support it, some think they're being silly - but now really in the real world - doesn't the media typically report on what is in in vogue and most popular with what they think is the fashionable norm? It's so silly that they go "And this next segment is just for you ladies, coming up - interview with hottie Orlando Bloom" and their attitude is like EVERY SINGLE woman has the hots for Orlando. They do it on my home page, too - like I give a care for what Britney Spears is doing or wearing. It's not just virginity either, it's women who don't want to buy Ralph Lauren clothes or perfume making to be feel like their trash or something just because they buy their clothes at Wal-Mart. Or a man who doesnt like football and wont host the superbowl at his home. It's ridiculous, but it happens in every situation.
I would just hope/pray anyone wanting to remain a virgin can get past all that **** and booger anyone else's opinion; just as I would feel the same for someone who doesn't want Ralph Lauren froo froo even if they could afford it.

My next question is:

Many people have standards in mind for their future spouse. For example, a person may be looking for someone who is a Christian (or even a member of a certain denomination), who is a virgin, and who is not obese. And it would be a bonus if the person had some other qualities. They will state that other qualities don't matter so much, but they really want someone with those 3 main qualities, and probably wouldn't consider marrying someone who doesn't at least meet those. If they post that, the person will probably receive little to no negative posts about desiring a Christian who isn't obese, but they will get many replys telling them that they shouldn't insist that their potential spouse must be a virgin.

Why is it that those who outright state that they will not marry an obese person don't get the same sort of response as those who state that they will not marry a non-virgin?

Well when you ask a question like that you're going to get a lot of different answers, do you think you can be satisfied with anybody's opinion? I don't mean that as antagonistic, it's just when I ask questions - I usually see if someone makes a reply that jives with what I think so I don't feel like the only bizarraro.

If this person is Christian, I would think they ought to know they can't set too many standards of their own because God's going to send them who they NEED first - not who they WANT. The "quality" of a person's virginity and their weight IMO is quite shallow and it's their loss if they're going to pass on a Christian virgin who hasn't lost weight yet. Or even if they pass on a thin Christian who is lying about her/his virginity, eh?

This sounds like someone placed an ad in the personals. I'd hazard any male who sets those 3 qualifications for a potential date or partner is going to be the laughing stock of women everywhere. If not outright hate mail.

And if it were a woman who placed an ad like that, most of her inbox would be flooded with a bunch of liars to the point where she couldn't be sure if the sincere sounding one actually is sincere.

 

[jenptcfan]

So basically, the problem is that people tend to take general comments about virginity personally? It works the other way too though. In real life, in the secular world, virgins are routinely ridiculed by peers because of their virginity. Posts that condemn the desire for a virgin spouse can make a person who is a virgin and wants to marry a virgin feel like a terrible person - which is really not what one expects in Christian surroundings. One expects the value of virginity to be something frowned upon by non-Christian peers but when the same thing happens in a Christian community, it almost makes one ashamed of valuing virginity, perhaps even ashamed of being a virgin.

My next question is:

Many people have standards in mind for their future spouse. For example, a person may be looking for someone who is a Christian (or even a member of a certain denomination), who is a virgin, and who is not obese. And it would be a bonus if the person had some other qualities. They will state that other qualities don't matter so much, but they really want someone with those 3 main qualities, and probably wouldn't consider marrying someone who doesn't at least meet those. If they post that, the person will probably receive little to no negative posts about desiring a Christian who isn't obese, but they will get many replys telling them that they shouldn't insist that their potential spouse must be a virgin.

Why is it that those who outright state that they will not marry an obese person don't get the same sort of response as those who state that they will not marry a non-virgin?

I don't think it's the general comments about virginity that people are taking personally. I think it's kind of your own business what you're looking for in a woman. But it's when we start delving deeper and get the feeling that some people won't date a repentant non-virgin because somehow they're not as pure as a virgin (when in fact God says they are!).

Nobody is frowning on virginity. I think virginity is a great thing. It's a very difficult thing to maintain and something that I believe God blesses greatly. But sometimes it's easy to get the idea that a virgin thinks he/she is better than a non-virgin just because of his/her virginity. It's probably something that the virgins won't understand unless they mess up.

 

[katelyn]

Why is it that those who outright state that they will not marry an obese person don't get the same sort of response as those who state that they will not marry a non-virgin?

Well, I don't think either statement ("I want a non-obese spouse" or "I want a virgin spouse") is inherently good or bad. But I do get frustrated sometimes when someone is making those statements and is very adamant about them. (Though, I know I shouldn't get too frustrated and start to take the comments personally, even if I don't agree with them. Each person does have a right to form those opinions for themselves, and just because they are doesn't mean that they are looking down on those who don't meet the criteria they are setting for their spouse.)

I think it would be pretty hard to not have some kind of ideas in your mind of what you want your spouse to be like. But I think that when we begin insisting that those qualities are must-have, then I think we are limiting God's will for us by telling Him what we must have, instead of waiting patiently for Him to reveal His will.

God knows the desires of our heart and isn't going to bring us someone we can't love. But I do think that we can harden our hearts to certain qualities that aren't inherently bad...they just aren't what we expected. When we harden our hearts in that way, we may miss out on the amazing person God has in mind for us.

 

[the_man]

I've noticed a trend in threads on various boards on this forum on the topic of virginity and the hope for a virgin spouse. Some people will start by saying that they value virginity and are saving themselves and hope for a virgin spouse. And then others start condemning them for being judgemental towards non-virgins etc.

Why do so many people, on a Christian forum, have a negative attitude towards those who are virgins and hope that their spouse will be too? One would almost think that that hoping for a virgin spouse is a terrible sin in some people's eyes, perhaps even that it is worse to hope for a virgin spouse than to have premarital sex. What's the deal with that?

So I did some research of threads on virginity and especially threads you've posted in. The negative attitude towards virgins, I did not find. What I did find is that there is a danger of downplaying virginity. (i.e. There is the danger for non-virgins to imply that virginity is not all that important because loosing one's virginity is a sin and God has forgiven it). This downplaying of virginity upsets the virgins. The other danger is uplifting virginity to a point were virigins are on a higher spiritual plane (i.e. There is the danger for virgins to imply that virginity is only second to (sometimes equal/greater than) a persons walk with God). This uplifting of virginity upsets the non-virgins.

I think these things should be put in their place. As christians, we should not view matters as from the perspective of this world, but from an eternal perspective. Non-virgins have sinned sexually. If they repent their sins are forgiven by the one they sinned against; God. As christians we should rejoice in God for His mercy, because He forgives sins. It is good to remain a virgin and save sex for marriage. However, this is 'work', it does not save you in the eyes of God. Works in and of themselves are not a bad thing, but no one should boast because of their works. As christians we should rejoice in God for His grace, because by His grace we are saved.

 

[jenptcfan]

So I did some research of threads on virginity and especially threads you've posted in. The negative attitude towards virgins, I did not find. What I did find is that there is a danger of downplaying virginity. (i.e. There is the danger for non-virgins to imply that virginity is not all that important because loosing one's virginity is a sin and God has forgiven it). This downplaying of virginity upsets the virgins. The other danger is uplifting virginity to a point were virigins are on a higher spiritual plane (i.e. There is the danger for virgins to imply that virginity is only second to (sometimes equal/greater than) a persons walk with God). This uplifting of virginity upsets the non-virgins.

I think these things should be put in their place. As christians, we should not view matters as from the perspective of this world, but from an eternal perspective. Non-virgins have sinned sexually. If they repent their sins are forgiven by the one they sinned against; God. As christians we should rejoice in God for His mercy, because He forgives sins. It is good to remain a virgin and save sex for marriage. However, this is 'work', it does not save you in the eyes of God. Works in and of themselves are not a bad thing, but no one should boast because of their works. As christians we should rejoice in God for His grace, because by His grace we are saved.

Well said!

 

[Echoes Peak]

Amen...

 

[Lucubratus]

Yep!