Attila vs. Genghis

Kripost

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I am assuming you meant large scale battles, not personal combat.

Unfortunately, historical records regarding Attila the Hun are not as extensive as those for the Mongols. The Mongols have at least one work that was written: 'The Secret History of the Mongols', which mentions the legendary origins and the historical events in Genghis Khan's time. Not to mention they have more contact with other literate civilizations (e.g. Chinese, Persians), and eventually some became educated in these civilizations (e.g. Kublai Khan).

Ok... back to the question: It is presumed they used the same tactic of feigned retreat, ambush and had powerful bows. In my opinion, Genghis Khan would have won. Based on what information is available, he had administrative and organizationsal ability. He organized his army into hierarchical levels of 1000 men, 100 men, 10 men at each level, which could have facilitated communication and comand on the battlefield.

Furthermore, he had capable men under his command. Subutai and Jebe were given permission to lead a recon mission into Europe, where they defeated larger armies.
 
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marshlewis

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Kripost said:
I am assuming you meant large scale battles, not personal combat.

Unfortunately, historical records regarding Attila the Hun are not as extensive as those for the Mongols. The Mongols have at least one work that was written: 'The Secret History of the Mongols', which mentions the legendary origins and the historical events in Genghis Khan's time. Not to mention they have more contact with other literate civilizations (e.g. Chinese, Persians), and eventually some became educated in these civilizations (e.g. Kublai Khan).

Ok... back to the question: It is presumed they used the same tactic of feigned retreat, ambush and had powerful bows. In my opinion, Genghis Khan would have won. Based on what information is available, he had administrative and organizationsal ability. He organized his army into hierarchical levels of 1000 men, 100 men, 10 men at each level, which could have facilitated communication and comand on the battlefield.

Furthermore, he had capable men under his command. Subutai and Jebe were given permission to lead a recon mission into Europe, where they defeated larger armies.

Good post.
 
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pieman3141

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Attila only won because Europe was going into decline, and the Romans didn't have much experience in cavalry. Romans fought in maniples and blocks of infantry. Thing is, massed cavalry are faster. Only until the very end did the Romans develop heavy cavalry (predecessors to the knights in France and Spain and the cataphracts in the ERE). BTW yes, I consider the Romans finally died in 1453 AD, not 476 AD. The byzantines did consider themselves to be Romans.
 
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Kripost

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Lexluther said:
I think Genghis Khan would win on the strength of numbers and a few helpful technological innovations.

But Attila has a better scenario in Age of Empires!

Ah yes... the Persian trebuchets, used in some of the sieges against Chinese cities, and later, Chinese cannons, used in the invasion of Japan, although both were actually used by his grandsons.

I still like the mangudai in Age of Empires.
 
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Lexluther

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Kripost said:
By the way, does anyone have any information on how Attila's army was organized? and also their coordination and communication abilities on the battlefield?
Very little is specifically known. Even in his own time, Attila was shrouded in legend and mystery, because this was an important way that he maintained his power. Since our firm knowledge comes from the Romans, specifics of organization are not many.
From allempires.com: "Like other steppe people, Hun warriors fought exclusively as cavalry, and their warriors relied on the mobility of their horses and the penetration power of their composite bows. Like other steppe people, the Huns were natural warriors, having shot a bow and ridden on a horse for his entire life. On the battlefield, the Huns would fire a shower of arrows, inflicting casualties in long range.

When the enemies try to close in they would gallop away while turning their bodies and firing their bows at the enemy. Many Europeans, barbarians especially, were unused to such hit and run tactics, and thus were at a disadvantage. The proficiency of Hun warriors made them a popular choice as mercenaries. The Hun mercenary force was decisive in victory of the East Romans over the West Romans in the battle of Sisca in 388.

Nobles usually wore armor, most likely scale armor, while regulars wore little or none. Shields and helmets were commonly issued to all warriors alike. Besides their famed composite bow, the Huns also occasionally carried swords, lances, and other irregular weapons such as lassos.

The Hun army has always been exaggerated in size to promote their ferocity. Accounts claim the size of Attila’s army at Catalaunian plains being at 200,000. A more realistic and reasonable size would be around 30,000. Accounts also describe that the Huns eventually switched from being a cavalry army to an infantry army. The “infantry” Hun army was not because they had dismounted, but because of other barbarians infantry that the Huns incorporated into their army. At Catalaunian Plains, at least half of Attila’s army was other barbarians, namely Germans and Ostrogoths. Finally, there is the matter of siegecraft. In a siege during Attila’s Italian campaign, it was noted that the Huns themselves failed to storm the walls while the “other barbarians” in his army did. From this, we can imply that the Hun siegecraft was only as good as the other barbarians that they incorporated into their army. But the consistent success and the numerous cities that Attila did capture make this a point to ponder."

Attila ruled brutally- no one was allowed to show weakness or defection, at the risk of their life. All were loyal to him and the mythology he surrounded himself with, and he used promise of short-term gains to force his armies and allies into constant improvement. He rarely entered battles if he wasn't certain that he could win them, and used his constant victories and personal image to conquer nations and tribes with their own fear. Sun Tzu would have been impressed.
 
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Proud Hindu

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Interesting info on the Hunnic army :)

However, I think that Genghis Khan would win. Superb organization, brilliant generals, nearly unbeatable tactics. Genghis Khan consistently defeated armies 4-10 times the size of his. One feat that astounded me is that he invaded Russia in the middle of winter, and routed the Czar's army, which was much larger than his. The Russian army was virtually obliterated. The armies of China, Korea, Persia, Khwarazm, Russia, Poland, and the rest of Eastern Europe met with defeat after defeat to the Mongol armies, despite their having superior numbers in most cases. Not just defeats, the armies were demolished, almost wiped out to the last man.

As to brutality, no one could match Genghis Khan. When he sacked a city, he would kill everything - men, women, children, even the cats and dogs. Sometimes he would feign retreat, and then return to kill those who might have been hiding. He would cut off all the heads to make sure no one stayed alive by pretending to lie still. Even today, Chinese farmers sometimes dig up bones in their fields :(

He was the master of psychological warfare, among other tactics, he would have his men light multiple fires when camping, to make their army look larger. He would tie grass to his horses tails so that they stirred up more dust. He would have his men spread rumors of his cruelty (perhaps not all of it was rumor), so many cities would surrender without a fight.
 
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Kripost

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desi said:
They would have charged toward each other... stopped and shook hands. Then they would have combined forces and conquored the world dividing it fair and square.

I don't think so. Either the Huns submit as a vassal or face war.

Paraphrase of a quote from The Secret History of the Mongols: "one sun in heaven, one emperor on earth."
 
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