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attended a mass recently..not catholic..have a question

Stabat Mater dolorosa

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Well i am not a priest and i am married so i doubt i will be joining the sspx at time soon.

I didn't say anything about joining them I merely voiced my concern that you seem to adopt to alot of their mindset.

I have a Taditionalist Roman Catholic mindset and there is nothing wrong with that dispite what you may have been told.

The thing is that when you say Traditionalist Roman Catholic mindset you create an understanding of Catholicism in which there are several different branches of faith where your view or understanding if you like is qualitatively preferable.

This is problematic because there is one baptism and one faith.
Either you belive in the Catholic church or you don't and if you do you should know that an essential part of the Catholic faith is to listen to the pope, the successor of Saint Peter.

I grew up with the new mass i am a cradle catholic believe me when i say i held a more "common" modernist idea of catholicism so trust me when i say that what i say i do not say lightly. It is my opinion Rome is in Apostacy... never the less the pope is the pope and we must respect the petrine office.

Who are you to determine if the Holy See has fallen into apostasy or not?


It is my opinion that The vatican is for the large part in the control of freemasons and the seat of peter has been undermined by those under the influence of the masoic powers for sometime

This is conspiracy theory and nothing more...
 
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Albion

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I would prefer if you didn't ridicule Mea kulpa on his home board nevertheless.
Good point. I didn't pay attention to which forum I was on as I was going down the list of my 'Alerts.'
 
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mea kulpa

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I didn't say anything about joining them I merely voiced my concern that you seem to adopt to alot of their mindset.



The thing is that when you say Traditionalist Roman Catholic mindset you create an understanding of Catholicism in which there are several different branches of faith where your view or understanding if you like is qualitatively preferable.

This is problematic because there is one baptism and one faith.
Either you belive in the Catholic church or you don't and if you do you should know that an essential part of the Catholic faith is to listen to the pope, the successor of Saint Peter.



Who are you to determine if the Holy See has fallen into apostasy or not?




This is conspiracy theory and nothing more...

Yes it seems i do hold a lot of their mindset... but not all.

When i say traditional catholic it is so others can identify that i am not modernist progressive or conservitive... that i hold the catholic faith passed down throughout the history of the church.

When i say in my opinion rome is in apostacy it is my opinion rome no longer holds to the full deposit of faith handed down by the apostles... that is not to say every cardinal bishop etc... just there are many in the holy see who are in my opinion in apostacy. So i do believe in a one holy catholic and apostolic faith.

It is my opinion that until recently i have been decieved and many other good catholics are still under that deception.

Yes i believe we should adhear to the teachings of the popes the succesors of peter.

I did not declare that rome is in apostacy... i said in my opinion rome is in apostacy... that rome is under the influence of freemasons.

Its opinion i share with our lady and countless other saints who forsaw our time.

Hey, i am not saying you should believe me... do your own research and dont be affraid of what people may say or accuse you of.
 
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Colin

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It is my opinion Rome is in Apostacy.

So you say that Rome is in Apostasy .

That is something which could come straight out the writings of Martin Luther , Huldrych Zwingli , John Calvin and the rest of their ilk .

The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that "apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith" .

How , as a Catholic , can you say what you say ?
 
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Stabat Mater dolorosa

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IMHO I think apostasy is heavy handed and to blow things totally out of proportions.

That being said I wouldn't be to surprised if a council held in the future will readjust some of the more heterodox interpretation or dare I say inovations made by V2, but it's a long stretch from asking questions about certain liturgical choices made during V2 and to declare Novus Ordo illicit.

I don't find any support to make such a decision on my own, but there where some problematic contradictions made by V2 in relation to the council of Trent.
To at some point re navigate towards Trent would be a wise decision to make IMHO, but the council of Trent vs V2 is a topic that deserves an own thread if discussed.
 
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mea kulpa

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Yeah i see your point and maybe i might be over reacting somewhat. But i think the problems need to be addressed and that is for the authorities in rome to address. Regardless rome is the governing authority of the church and we must remain in communion with the holy see. Pray for the pope bishops and cardinals and hope the crisis gets resolved soon
 
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Stabat Mater dolorosa

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Yeah i see your point and maybe i might be over reacting somewhat. But i think the problems need to be addressed and that is for the authorities in rome to address. Regardless rome is the governing authority of the church and we must remain in communion with the holy see. Pray for the pope bishops and cardinals and hope the crisis gets resolved soon

Hail Mary, full of grace,
The Lord is with thee,
Blessed art thou amongst women and
Blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.

Holy Mary, mother of God,
Pray for us sinners now and
At the hour of our death.
Amen.

:crossrc:
 
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katerinah1947

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Hi,

I find all of your positions, are allowed and in a way encouraged within the Catholic faith.

Even popes have held private views counter to what they actually followed.

And you are right about Saints, some of them fought the church on the church's errors.

That is a saints job while on earth also.

I love your correct position, in doing what the church says. We all do that.

My full support is with you, even if it turns out, you later figure out, that you are wrong.

It is not important for all of us to be, without error.

It is important, I think and feel, for us to try and be without error.

Rome, per say, has never been perfect also.

My favorite item so far with you, is that you object, without objecting to the church itself.

If I were not involved, in correcting the church, and other churchs, perhaps I would not see you for what you are really saying.

The fight, that you are in, I am not in. Because of that, I cannot help more than this now.

Help, from me would be Catholic Help, meaning that I would address any error you had nicely, but if there was any support because you are right, that too you would get. Further, both of those would be in equal amounts, even though one of those is more pleasant to me, than the other one. Support for rightness, is more important, ah pleasant, ah pleasant not important.

Biblically, which is primarily the first and best source, and from which the CCC, was derived from, agrees with your actions also, as far as I can tell.

Maybe Pope Benedict xvi in his recently released interview can shed some light for you

"The missionaries of the 16th century were convinced that the unbaptized person is lost forever. After the [Second Vatican] Council, this conviction was definitely abandoned. The result was a two-sided, deep crisis. Without this attentiveness to the salvation, the Faith loses its foundation."

He also speaks of a “profound evolution of Dogma” with respect to the Dogma that there is no salvation outside the Church. This purported change of dogma has led, in the pope's eyes, to a loss of the missionary zeal in the Church – “any motivation for a future missionary commitment was removed.”

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/p...-church-is-now-facing-a-two-sided-deep-crisis

It is clear what pope benedict xvi thinks.

This is why until a future council is held to address these issues with vatican 2. I hold fast to the traditions passed down through the ages... Its not that i reject vatican ii but until it is formally addressed i will consider v2 as was the intention of pope john xxiii as a pastoral council that has not authority of an infallible council. I also reject other all other novilties since vatcian 2 until it is made clear. While i do not reject the new mass as invalid as that would contadict the promise of our lord to protect his church i reject them as being illicit.

Well i am not a priest and i am married so i doubt i will be joining the sspx at time soon.

I have a Taditionalist Roman Catholic mindset and there is nothing wrong with that dispite what you may have been told.

I grew up with the new mass i am a cradle catholic believe me when i say i held a more "common" modernist idea of catholicism so trust me when i say that what i say i do not say lightly. It is my opinion Rome is in Apostacy... never the less the pope is the pope and we must respect the petrine office.

It is my opinion that The vatican is for the large part in the control of freemasons and the seat of peter has been undermined by those under the influence of the masoic powers for sometime

Yes it seems i do hold a lot of their mindset... but not all.

When i say traditional catholic it is so others can identify that i am not modernist progressive or conservitive... that i hold the catholic faith passed down throughout the history of the church.

When i say in my opinion rome is in apostacy it is my opinion rome no longer holds to the full deposit of faith handed down by the apostles... that is not to say every cardinal bishop etc... just there are many in the holy see who are in my opinion in apostacy. So i do believe in a one holy catholic and apostolic faith.

It is my opinion that until recently i have been decieved and many other good catholics are still under that deception.

Yes i believe we should adhear to the teachings of the popes the succesors of peter.

I did not declare that rome is in apostacy... i said in my opinion rome is in apostacy... that rome is under the influence of freemasons.

Its opinion i share with our lady and countless other saints who forsaw our time.

Hey, i am not saying you should believe me... do your own research and dont be affraid of what people may say or accuse you of.

Yeah i see your point and maybe i might be over reacting somewhat. But i think the problems need to be addressed and that is for the authorities in rome to address. Regardless rome is the governing authority of the church and we must remain in communion with the holy see. Pray for the pope bishops and cardinals and hope the crisis gets resolved soon

LOVE,
 
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Colin

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i said in my opinion rome is in apostacy.


So you say that in your opinion Rome is in Apostasy .

That is something which could come straight out the writings of Martin Luther , Huldrych Zwingli , John Calvin and the rest of their ilk .

The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that "apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith" .

How , as a Catholic , can you say what you say ?
 
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Stabat Mater dolorosa

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So you say that in your opinion Rome is in Apostasy .

That is something which could come straight out the writings of Martin Luther , Huldrych Zwingli , John Calvin and the rest of their ilk .

The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that "apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith" .

How , as a Catholic , can you say what you say ?

I think we all read your message the first time around so there no need to repeat it any further.
 
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Colin

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I think we all read your message the first time around so there no need to repeat it any further.
My message worded the first time round is worded differently the second time round because mea kulpa changed his wording .

I am still waiting for mea kulpa to reply to my message .

If he continues to avoid giving an answer , I will have to continue asking him the question until he does answer . Simple as .
 
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Stabat Mater dolorosa

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My message worded the first time round is worded differently the second time round because mea kulpa changed his wording .

I am still waiting for mea kulpa to reply to my message .

If he continues to avoid giving an answer , I will have to continue asking him the question until he does answer . Simple as .

He isnt obligated to answer any question directed towards him and to be frank you come of as a tad arrogant demanding an answer so to speak.
Besides I think Mea Kulpa answered (at least partially) in post #90.

Please Colin respect other posters right to refrain from answering questions.


Best regards.
 
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Colin

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He isnt obligated to answer any question directed towards him and to be frank you come of as a tad arrogant demanding an answer so to speak.
Besides I think Mea Kulpa answered (at least partially) in post #90.

Please Colin respect other posters right to refrain from answering questions.


Best regards.

Oh dear .

What a silly post .

It is arrogance now to expect answers to questions .

I have not the slightest intention of heeding your advice .

You post your way . I'll post my way .
 
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Stabat Mater dolorosa

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Oh dear .

What a silly post .

It is arrogance now to expect answers to questions .

I have not the slightest intention of heeding your advice .

You post your way . I'll post my way .

Whatever...
 
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mea kulpa

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Colin i admire your zeal for the church. I know you mean well. But your problem is with me and what i said not a child of mary. Please dont be rude to him/her. Because of me. I have addessed your question and i know it falls far short of a complete answer but like i said i dont want to upset the moderators. Also i admit i maybe over reacting somewhat... my concern is only for the good of the faith it is not based on some vendetta against the faith. I maybe in the extreme but it is a reaction to the crisis in the faith. I know there would be no crisis if everyone submitted to their bishops etc but the crisis is not about disobedience but misguided obedience to men who by many accounts are leading the faith and the faithful in a direction that many people believe is away from the true faith.

A child of mary. Thank you for defeanding my right not to respond and i hope you dont hold colin being rude to you against him. I am sure he was only venting his frustration with me for not responding
 
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Stabat Mater dolorosa

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A child of mary. Thank you for defeanding my right not to respond and i hope you dont hold colin being rude to you against him. I am sure he was only venting his frustration with me for not responding

You're welcome Mea kulpa:)
Colin and I wrestle every once in a while but despite our many dissagrements we're brothers and care for one another.

Things easily gets heated in here sometimes, but I think most catholics in here are quite good at separating case from person:)
 
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Colin

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You're welcome Mea kulpa:)
Colin and I wrestle every once in a while but despite our many dissagrements we're brothers and care for one another.

Things easily gets heated in here sometimes, but I think most catholics in here are quite good at separating case from person:)
:amen:
 
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