Atkins

[Bear]

You doing a CKD?

No, that would still be way to low of carbs for my liking.

 

[Graeme]

hmm wll i did that diet 3 yrs ago and lost about 30lbs and have keep it off to date and now i eat what i like to a point, i just dont eat excessivly but yeah i woudnt recomend doing it for long after 2 weeks, u need to start moving gradualy back to a normal diet

 

[Moros]

its healthy if you do it properly. i did it once and lost 23lbs in 6 days. no lie.

 

[Kepa]

I think it's important to realise Atkins isn't the only low-carb diet. But from what I've read, and from what I've experienced, it's a good diet. A guest we had on my Pastor's radio show is on the Atkins diet, and has been for a while, he was very obese and had Diabetes (not sure whether it's Type 1 or 2), and with the Atkins diet he's managed to control his diabetes as well as lose alot of weight.
I've been on it a couple of times, and I admit that it's rather boring during the early stages with meat, cheese, eggs and such. But I've lost weight on it. Collectively I've lost 20 kgs, which is a little over 40 lbs (I lost 15 kg the first time, then went off it for a while, and binged on carbs (lol) now I'm back on it and have lost 5 kgs so far).

 

[Moros]

I think it's important to realise Atkins isn't the only low-carb diet.

Yep. the low-carb is only for two weeks.

 

[thekingster]

TheKingster can you cite the references to which you have come to the conclusion that ketosis (NOT KETOACIDOSIS-- they are NOT the same thing) is harmful to the kidneys of a normal individual?

King Element,
I am in healthcare, sorry for the mysteriousness of the post. Ketoacidosis - is not ketosis, which is what the body is placed into with the Atkins Diet. Ketoacidosis arises in the Type 1 Diabetic, which, incidently...will cause kidney damage.

I think short bouts of ketosis are acceptable...but beware...ketones quickly become acidic in the blood...resulting in, yep...ketoacidosis...which is, incidently...toxic to the kidneys.

BLUF...Atkins, or any super-low carb diet CAN BE threatening to the kidneys.

Steven King
The Kingster

 

[catalyst]

No, that would still be way to low of carbs for my liking.

Oddly enough, on the rare occasions that I diet (powerlifting is great like that ) I find the CKD the easiest diet to stick to. I can tell myself 'only five days to go and I get sweet tarts and gummy bears." Only four days, etc.


Are you just cycling your carbs based on training and activity level?

 

[catalyst]

King Element,
I am in healthcare, sorry for the mysteriousness of the post. Ketoacidosis - is not ketosis, which is what the body is placed into with the Atkins Diet. Ketoacidosis arises in the Type 1 Diabetic, which, incidently...will cause kidney damage.

I think short bouts of ketosis are acceptable...but beware...ketones quickly become acidic in the blood...resulting in, yep...ketoacidosis...which is, incidently...toxic to the kidneys.

BLUF...Atkins, or any super-low carb diet CAN BE threatening to the kidneys.

Steven King
The Kingster

Please support the dangers of dietary ketosis, the resultant ketoacidosis, and the harmful effects on the kidneys.

Peer reviewed research, please.

 

[King Element]

oops double post

 

[King Element]

I am in healthcare, sorry for the mysteriousness of the post. Ketoacidosis - is not ketosis, which is what the body is placed into with the Atkins Diet. Ketoacidosis arises in the Type 1 Diabetic, which, incidently...will cause kidney damage. I think short bouts of ketosis are acceptable...but beware...ketones quickly become acidic in the blood...resulting in, yep...ketoacidosis...which is, incidently...toxic to the kidneys. BLUF...Atkins, or any super-low carb diet CAN BE threatening to the kidneys.

You're talking with a healthcare professional, so please, don't be afraid to get as scientific as you like.

Absolute statements should not be made without absolute evidence. I am highly interested in the research citings that have helped you get to this line of reasoning.

Ketoacidosis and ketosis are explicitly different situations. One almost always involves an elemental underlying co-morbidity (or administration of agents designed to do this) and the other is a natural process. Confusion should be clarified that you cannot equate ketoacidosis type health sequelae with that of ketosis (as there have been few, if any noted). Ketosis is a normal event in the human body occurring through the primary conversion of fatty acids to energy substrates. Ketosis is a normal biochemical process in the body that occurs when bodyfat stores are needed for production of energy. In other words, it's a natural thing that's going to happen in a normally functioning human being.

However, the basic point is that you have alluded to protein causing kidney damage and then you have changed tune to describe how ketosis causes kidney damage. You can't just equate kidney damage to high protein and then describe a mechanism that incidentally has nearly nothing to do with protein. Case in point, in cases of marasmus and kwashiorkor (terms that you should be completely familiar with as you are in healthcare) are situations where protein intake and caloric intake are so low that malnutrition is occurring. In both of these conditions, ketosis may be occurring, however, protein intake for both malnutrition states is going to be quite low. So you can't exactly equate ketosis and kidney damage on the basis of protein intake.

Again, let's talk research and scientific references.

 

[thekingster]

Since you are in healthcare, you are aware of the "peer research" that painfully, and woefully decries Atkins' and the resultant kidney damage.

I bear no daggers...
The Kingster

 

[Key Of David]

Therefore, regardless of which dieting strategy one upholds -- any food you eat should be as organic as possible.

Agreed....but scaring people about alien diabetic causing bananas is not the way to go. There are vegetables to eat, ya know. We have a better option of buying organic produce than organic meats, at least I do at the moment. Better to eat a lot of bad vegetables with a little bad meat a day, then vise versa. Even though a lot of nutrients and vitamins are lost in vegetables....you STILL get the complex carbs and cancer fighting properties the body needs. Too much meat and not enough vegetables is asking for cancer in every respect....it is begging for it. Choose your cancer causing characteristics.....low anti-oxidant levels (again not vegetables which contain them), high or elevated cholestoral, a known cancer feeder, and/or high meat hormone levels, which sink right into the human body for cancer to feed on as well. You also get.....increased risk of heart disease, high ketone levels (liver AND kidney killing if not damaging), low energy levels, higher risk of stroke, etc.

This is why I hate fad diets. Its just another thing for someone to make his quick $$$ off of you whilest you try and not work on your diet TOO hard and lose that fat. Who cares about health...you'll get a smile at work in the morning cause you're thinner.

I'm glad you mentioned that, I had a kidney removed 6 years ago. My BUN and creatinine levels are near perfect especially this past year. My surgeon warned me against high protein diets mid last year and I laughed and told him that I had already researched it and had been doing the Atkins diet for quite some time at that point. He sheepishly laughed and said "well, I guess there's always a detractor in every group...your kidney is handling it just fine." Since then he has taken more of an interest in low carb diets and admits that more and more of his patients are on low carb diets and are doing much better than what mainstream medicine would have expected.

Yes your young, hard working kidneys can "handle" your unnatural diet "just fine"....but for how long and why would you want them to...when you could eat a much better and healthier diet?

 

[King Element]

Since you are in healthcare, you are aware of the "peer research" that painfully, and woefully decries Atkins' and the resultant kidney damage.

I bear no daggers...
The Kingster

So you don't have any references, then?

 

[King Element]

Agreed....but scaring people about alien diabetic causing bananas is not the way to go.

If you re-read my post I mentioned specifically that bananas did not belong by and large in the group that you're referring to.

There are vegetables to eat, ya know. We have a better option of buying organic produce than organic meats, at least I do at the moment. Better to eat a lot of bad vegetables with a little bad meat a day, then vise versa. Even though a lot of nutrients and vitamins are lost in vegetables....you STILL get the complex carbs and cancer fighting properties the body needs. Too much meat and not enough vegetables is asking for cancer in every respect....it is begging for it. Choose your cancer causing characteristics.....low anti-oxidant levels (again not vegetables which contain them), high or elevated cholestoral, a known cancer feeder, and/or high meat hormone levels, which sink right into the human body for cancer to feed on as well. You also get.....increased risk of heart disease, high ketone levels (liver AND kidney killing if not damaging), low energy levels, higher risk of stroke, etc.

I don't want to assume, but are you indicating that I don't eat many vegetables? If so, I'd probably guess that I eat on average more than the average person does.

I think I mentioned this to Kingster, do you have scientific evidence of low carb ketosis causing kidney and liver damage? Add to this your statistic that low carb dieters have elevated cholesterol levels, increased heart disease, lower energy levels, increased risk of stroke...

This is why I hate fad diets. Its just another thing for someone to make his quick $$$ off of you whilest you try and not work on your diet TOO hard and lose that fat. Who cares about health...you'll get a smile at work in the morning cause you're thinner.

How is the Atkins diet making someone richer? If anything, it's just making the fast food and fruit industry work a little harder to convince us that we need to stop doing our diet and buy their product. I don't do the Atkins to be thinner or to lose weight, I consider it to actually be one of the healthier diets available to the public. If you look at the OWL phase of the Atkins it is quite similar to diets that I consider to be healthier than many others.

Yes your young, hard working kidneys can "handle" your unnatural diet "just fine"....but for how long and why would you want them to...when you could eat a much better and healthier diet?

I guess you're assuming my age...I'm not as young as you think. As to my "unnatural diet", rest assured that if you're eating fruit year round that my diet is probably by far more natural. The "much better and healthier" diet...to which specifically are you referring to?

 

[Key Of David]

As someone who has practiced and studied (ok studied more than practiced LOL) I know of the fact there are many competitive bodybuilders as I type this that are dangerously walking the ketone poisoning line. When you body gets dangerously low on carbs it goes into ketosis....it will literally poison itself. You cannot tell me this is healthy. Am I wrong in the fact that Dr. Atkins is one man? Is he not making money from this since his name is on it? Be honest.

 

[Kepa]

no he's not, lol, he's dead

 

[Bear]

As someone who has practiced and studied (ok studied more than practiced LOL) I know of the fact there are many competitive bodybuilders as I type this that are dangerously walking the ketone poisoning line. When you body gets dangerously low on carbs it goes into ketosis....it will literally poison itself. You cannot tell me this is healthy.

You really think most competitive bodybuilders care about health?

It's all about appearance, and a lot of them partake in illegal and dangerous practices indeed.

 

[King Element]

As someone who has practiced and studied (ok studied more than practiced LOL) I know of the fact there are many competitive bodybuilders as I type this that are dangerously walking the ketone poisoning line. When you body gets dangerously low on carbs it goes into ketosis....it will literally poison itself. You cannot tell me this is healthy. Am I wrong in the fact that Dr. Atkins is one man? Is he not making money from this since his name is on it? Be honest.

As a former powerlifter, I have quite a few friends who are in the bodybuilding arena. The only time I'm aware of severe carbohydrate restriction that most of them undergo is pre competition stage (barring those bodybuilders who do low carb diets year round -- and they are the minority -- most bodybuilders do CKD diets in which nutrient partitioning is in favor of static carb restriction. Additional to that, if you consider what they are putting their bodies through mentally, physically and hormonally. That doesn't even account for the additional substances that many of the competitive types are involved in taking and using. So there's not really a connection with bodybuilding and "dangerously walking the ketone poisoning line".

Ketosis is a natural process by which the body manufactures energy substrates for the purpose of keeping a steady state of blood glucose. If you want to check and see if prolonged ketosis is dangerous, then you can examine medical literature detailing the short and long term medical histories of people who have been subjected to years of forced starvation in the camps in Germany in WW2. Other than overt malnutrition wasting states, there have been no apparent links to being literally starved of carbohydrates and kidney or liver damage that did not have another malnutritive etiology. Ketosis happens briefly in our bodies as it is from time to time. A person sick at home with the flu or other ailment can easily test positive for ketones. While this is not prolonged, it is an example of the body's normal physiology at work under different conditions.

As to Atkins making money, his company may be making money on book sales, but I'm not sure how this translates to increasing their bottom line when the diet supplies are largely bought from grocery stores...however, I will concede that Atkins Nutritionals does make products available for sale. However, given that there are still so many misconceptions out there about the Atkins diet, I would hazard a guess that book sales are not nearly what they should be considering the numbers of people who claim to be on the Atkins diet.

As to Atkins Nutritionals and the company being in business, are you suggesting that making money and offering a solution to problems are not mutually co-existant? If that's how you really feel, then also consider that most doctors and hospitals charge for services too.

 

[catalyst]

As someone who has practiced and studied (ok studied more than practiced LOL) I know of the fact there are many competitive bodybuilders as I type this that are dangerously walking the ketone poisoning line. When you body gets dangerously low on carbs it goes into ketosis....it will literally poison itself. You cannot tell me this is healthy. Am I wrong in the fact that Dr. Atkins is one man? Is he not making money from this since his name is on it? Be honest.

Ketogenic diets have been used for more than 100 years. First published reference for the use of one was in 1868, IIRC. This is not exactly a fad, Dr. Atkins has just popularized something that has been used by health care practictioners for quite a while.

Please tell me how ketosis, the burning of ketone bodies for fuel, is harmful? And I would like evidence, not assertions.

 

[Key Of David]

The bottom line is ketosis is not healthy. I've seen enough research to know, but can't prove it....it was a couple years over even more back when I read up on it...I can't remember. I just knew enough to stay away from starving my body. Anytime you starve your body you are in an UNNATURAL state. You are messing around with your metabolism and every function of your body. I have no current proof...so for those who find the fad diets appealing....maybe your word really is better than mine. Your body functions on carbs....period. It wasn't made for anything else. I am aware it can convert fat and even protein and ketones in extreme states.....but this is unnatural and unnecessary. Its just my opinion...but I also think its common sense....give your body what it needs and exercise....I guess some just don't want to do it the right way...they want it the easy/set in black and white way. Maybe I'm being ignorant about the whole thing and really need to read up even more than I have on the subject and maybe I will....but I know enough to know that it still seems like common sense to me.....to stay away from the Atkins diet.....