Atheists

[Chveya]

Now, while I am not an expert of the Big Bang, I can tell you that one theory is that the universe came from an infinitely small, infinitely dense point. Not nothing. Never nothing. Don't ever assume that.

For all we know, it could have been a previous Universe that collapsed into this point.

I must remind you that this is no more fanciful than some magical loving man in the sky waving his wand around and popping planets out of nowhere and building women out of ribs and mud.

The big bang no more needs an identity to fuel it as a naturally occurring chemical reaction needs a person to interfere with it on the atomic level. Things happen without cause sometimes. There is no need for God.

Also, I must point out that Atheism is not a belief. Atheism is more like the default setting, what you are without a belief. The burden of proof lies on the person making the assumption, not on the one who chooses to not believe. You don't believe in unicorns, do you? Can you prove they don't exist?
The only reason you think that Atheism requires faith is because you don't understand our beliefs.

Another problem with your thinking is that you assume that only atheists believe in the big bang, and that without the big bang, atheism would be completely incorrect. But that's the beauty of science, it changes; and we change with it. Even if evolution and the big bang were proven wrong tomorrow, that would neither prove God, or creation. Scientists would just keep searching for the correct theory until we find it. We don't get emotionally attached to our ideas, like you religious people do. Your religion has rarely changed since it came into existence. Science, on the other hand is constantly adapting to fit the evidence.

 

[Laura.]

Ok Chveya, question for you. Where did the matter come from that fueled the Big Bang? Did it just appear? If not then who made it or where did it come from? Or triggered it in coming together in the singularity that fueled the Big Bang?

Little holes in your theory there Again, atheism requires as much faith as it takes to believe, and so many more excuses.

E=MC2
Energy. The next question would be 'where did this energy that created matter come from?'. There is no set in stone answer to this question. As there is no set in stone answer to the question 'and this God, that created your matter, where did he come from?'.

 

[arunma]

E=MC2
Energy. The next question would be 'where did this energy that created matter come from?'. There is no set in stone answer to this question. As there is no set in stone answer to the question 'and this God, that created your matter, where did he come from?'.

Two points here. First of all, it would be a good idea to not throw around that equation too freely. As someone who actually knows what it means, I can tell you that it is incomplete. "E = mc^2" is really just the first term in a Taylor series, which we physicists like to throw out to the general public. I'm not really sure why we do this, but it's not quite as profound as you might have been led to believe.

Secondly, "energy" doesn't answer his original question. Energy is an ability to do work. It isn't a tangible thing in and of itself, but rather a mathematical tool used to describe physical processes. Energy doesn't spontaneously turn into matter. The two are related, but in practice aren't completely interchangable. "Energy" doesn't explain the origin of the universe.

 

[arunma]

The issue of where God came from is moot when we consider his self-existence. Before the advent of modern science and astrophysical techniques, atheists would often claim that the universe has existed in its current form for all of eternity. This principle was known as the steady-state model. However, Big Bang theory suggests that the universe has a finite age. It is science, not philosophy, which denies us the ability to give the attribute of eternity to the universe. As far as I know, there is no scientific reason to say that God has a finite age. So I'm not sure how anyone could offer a meaningful objection to the Christian doctrine of the eternity of God.

 

[Kevmaster]

I feel the lot of you are misunderstanding Atheism, as well as a couple of other beliefs of Atheism.

Atheism is not completely disbelieving in God; an Atheist believes God does not exist because they see no evidence for God, but believes that there is a small chance. An Atheist is someone who rejects Religion but is alright with people who do believe in Religion. The difference between an Atheist and an Agnostic? an Agnostic is open to Religious ideas for conversion and believes there is a 50% chance of God existing. An Atheist thinks there is a small chance of a God existing and won't conform to Organized Religion.

An Atheist is not someone who is a bad person; you can't think just because they don't believe in God that they believe in murdering and raping everything that comes within one hundred feet of them. To be perfectly honest, most of the Atheists I've met are some of the most polite, respectful people I've known. Atheists over the internet are not really the nicest people though; because when you're on the internet, you're un-punchable.

One of the main overlooked facts is that Atheists are people, just like you. But you're probably wondering where they get their morality from? Common-sense. Atheists don't believe that they have to believe in a God or be a Good person to get a reward when death approaches. They are good because they understand that people around them are the same as them. They don't believe that they are better than anyone else, but nor do they believe that anyone is better than them. They don't look for morality from the Bible or any other Religious text, and I don't think they need to.

The Big Bang is not "something from nothing". The Big Bang is a theory of this very small, condensed pack of matter, that rapidly expanded to form the universe. The Big Bang theory also states that the universe is still expanding. A slow process, and yes not proven. Hey, I'm an Atheist and I don't believe in the Big Bang theory. I do believe in Evolution, but the Big Bang just never made sense to me. I know a lot of you probably think I'm hypocritical because I don't believe in a Theory that my religion believes in. Well, the truth is that a lot of Atheists don't believe in the Big Bang, and to be quite frank, just don't care how the world started; because we're here now, and that's all that matters to us. Atheists are going to see what enjoyments life and the earth have to offer while they are on this planet serving a meaningless existence. Sure, they believe their life is meaningless and just a result of Evolution, but they're alright with not having a purpose in life.

I must say I am appalled that some of you think that I am a bad person just because I don't believe in the same religion, and I am hurt that you truly believe that way.

I know I'm not allowed to post in this forum, but I hope that you will all look at Atheists as fellow human beings, not as d***-wads. We really are nice people, just not when Religious people throw crap at us for not believing in a God. And besides, if you're going to talk about Atheists you might as well get one here to know his point of view, rather than getting all your opinions from what a person from your same religion has told you. (No offense, but he probably knows nothing about Atheism and just makes assumptions based on nothing)

 

[Im_A]

"An atheist is someone who believes that nothing made everything. He will of course deny that because it's an intellectual embarrassment, but if I say that I don’t believe that a builder built my house, then I am left with the insanity of believing that nothing built it. It just happened."

http://pulltheplugonatheism.com

check your inbox. i cannot debate in this forum due to me being atheist, but i wanted to be sure you knew i responded somehow and look forward to any conversations about this in the future.

 

[SpiritDriven]

"An atheist is someone who believes that nothing made everything. He will of course deny that because it's an intellectual embarrassment, but if I say that I don’t believe that a builder built my house, then I am left with the insanity of believing that nothing built it. It just happened."

[URL="http://pulltheplugonatheism.com"]http://pulltheplugonatheism.com[/URL]

Then why have you not seen that it is....God...who blinds them ?
That their turn to believe is not yet ?

Read all of 1 Timothy, when you reach....to be testified in due time....perhaps your turn to be enlightened about Gods intention for all, will have come....or not.


Peace

 

[Revelation1217]

Sometimes you have to love atheists into the kingdom because often they won't listen to logic.

 

[peadar1987]

Revelation,

I think my own views are perfectly logical. I believe the Big Bang Theory, because there is a lot of circumstantial evidence for it. However, where the singularity that started it came from, I don't know, and I'll freely admit that.

Was it some sort of God? Maybe
Do I believe it was? No, but I don't rule it out as a possibility, because logic dictates that I can't

I think most atheists feel the same way

 

[Jenson's Beard]

Sometimes you have to love atheists into the kingdom because often they won't listen to logic.

But logic is the very basis that atheists have founded their viewpoint on.

Theism requires, as many will freely admit, a leap of faith. Other than the ontological argument, there is no empirical evidence for a God.

Now, the big bang is still a theory. But who is to say that scientists won't work a solution out as to how it happened?

It's not that atheists are deliberately picky. I'd love it if there was a God. But I can't make myself take that leap of faith.

 

[jlujan69]

Also, I must point out that Atheism is not a belief. Atheism is more like the default setting, what you are without a belief.

Wrong. What you are without a belief is ignorant. Given that we humans are inquisitive by nature, the default setting would be for us to desire to satisfy our innate curiosity. We're not born believing or disbelieving in God. We're taught about Him and then choose to accept it or not. What distinguishes Atheists is that after being taught about God, they've chosen to reject His existence. That rejection is in itself a belief.

 

[Im_A]

Sometimes you have to love atheists into the kingdom because often they won't listen to logic.

{Note-I am not meaning to debate here, but this post needs some common sense}

My own .02 for you to consider since you want to bring up logic:

If your proofs, your reasons and whatever else you think is "proof" for the existence of your god doesn't prove to us atheists that your god exists, then why in the world would you think that showing us the love of the god that we don't believe exists would bring us into the kingdom of the god we don't believe exists?

Most Christian fundamentalists, I am guessing, would understand why love is a useless instrument to convert an atheist with.

 

[peadar1987]

Wrong. What you are without a belief is ignorant. Given that we humans are inquisitive by nature, the default setting would be for us to desire to satisfy our innate curiosity. We're not born believing or disbelieving in God. We're taught about Him and then choose to accept it or not. What distinguishes Atheists is that after being taught about God, they've chosen to reject His existence. That rejection is in itself a belief.

I agree, atheism is a belief as much as any other. The default setting would probably fall under the heading of agnostic, i.e- Wanting to understand the world, and searching for something that explains it to your satisfaction. When you eventually settle on Christianity, Islam, Hindu or Atheism, then you have yourself a belief.

You can never rule out the possibility of there being a God, no matter how hard you try. It's like the Pastafarian assertion that every test that might prove that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist has been manipulated by his noodly appendage as a test of our faith. There's simply no way of conclusively proving that statement false, no matter how ridiculous you think it is

 

[ReformedChapin]

{Note-I am not meaning to debate here, but this post needs some common sense}

My own .02 for you to consider since you want to bring up logic:

If your proofs, your reasons and whatever else you think is "proof" for the existence of your god doesn't prove to us atheists that your god exists, then why in the world would you think that showing us the love of the god that we don't believe exists would bring us into the kingdom of the god we don't believe exists?

Most Christian fundamentalists, I am guessing, would understand why love is a useless instrument to convert an atheist with.

Christians don't show anyone love to convert them. God does the converting we are just fulling our responsibility's as followers of Christ to love you besides your blasphemy and foolishness.

 

[ReformedChapin]

I agree, atheism is a belief as much as any other. The default setting would probably fall under the heading of agnostic, i.e- Wanting to understand the world, and searching for something that explains it to your satisfaction. When you eventually settle on Christianity, Islam, Hindu or Atheism, then you have yourself a belief.

You can never rule out the possibility of there being a God, no matter how hard you try. It's like the Pastafarian assertion that every test that might prove that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist has been manipulated by his noodly appendage as a test of our faith. There's simply no way of conclusively proving that statement false, no matter how ridiculous you think it is

When you find a tribe of agnostics I'll believe you. The bible makes it clear everyone's default setting is well knowing that God exist but they are so sinful that they suppress the truth.

 

[Im_A]

Christians don't show anyone love to convert them. God does the converting we are just fulling our responsibility's as followers of Christ to love you besides your blasphemy and foolishness.

No reason to say that to me. Say that to Revelation1217. He's the one that said the part, "Love them into the kingdom".

 

[peadar1987]

When you find a tribe of agnostics I'll believe you. The bible makes it clear everyone's default setting is well knowing that God exist but they are so sinful that they suppress the truth.

I think it's telling that there are no tribes in the deep jungle who are Christian. In my view, the fact that most people do believe in some form of god is circumstantial evidence that religion is a psychological phenomenon people use to explain the unknown.

If a child was left to grow up without being told about any religion, they would probably end up agnostic, i.e. If you told them about any faith at age 20 they would accept it as an explanation for the things they saw around them.

 

[Boazonfire]

But logic is the very basis that atheists have founded their viewpoint on.

Theism requires, as many will freely admit, a leap of faith. Other than the ontological argument, there is no empirical evidence for a God.

Now, the big bang is still a theory. But who is to say that scientists won't work a solution out as to how it happened?

It's not that atheists are deliberately picky. I'd love it if there was a God. But I can't make myself take that leap of faith.

Theism requires, as many will freely admit, a leap of faith.

Atheism also requires a leap of faith.

there is no empirical evidence for a God.

Show me the empirical evidence that God doesn't exist.

 

[ReformedChapin]

I think it's telling that there are no tribes in the deep jungle who are Christian. In my view, the fact that most people do believe in some form of god is circumstantial evidence that religion is a psychological phenomenon people use to explain the unknown.

If a child was left to grow up without being told about any religion, they would probably end up agnostic, i.e. If you told them about any faith at age 20 they would accept it as an explanation for the things they saw around them.

You entirely missed my point. What I was tyring to express is that our default setting for the lack of better words is religious. We are religious by who we really are. We certainly aren't christians by nature, that takes a supernatural act by God.

And you latter statement is too speculative and basically making the assertion that religions is nothing but a environmental condition. Clearly this is false when young christian children grow up in churches and flatly reject the truth.

 

[Boazonfire]

Revelation,

I think my own views are perfectly logical. I believe the Big Bang Theory, because there is a lot of circumstantial evidence for it. However, where the singularity that started it came from, I don't know, and I'll freely admit that.

Was it some sort of God? Maybe
Do I believe it was? No, but I don't rule it out as a possibility, because logic dictates that I can't

I think most atheists feel the same way

Well, science is only as valid as the scientists. Remember the Peltdown Man? Scientists believed they had discovered the missing link, and it took 25 years later to find out it was a huge hoax. There is a scientist down here at NASA who has been putting out false data about global warming to further his personal agenda. Nope, I will place my faith in God, not man.