Atheists: Why does theism still exist?

[Colter]

How familiar are you with the study of epistemology? Any decent epistemological system has to have some justifying principle, something to make statements true beyond just stating the statements out loud. On the surface, claims of subjective, personal experience are no better than claims I've made up because they have the same amount of impersonal justification.

The only difference is in action: the person claiming the subjective experience will probably act as if the experience was true while the person who made one up will not act upon it.

Action, however, is not a justification of the truth value of the claim itself, but the result of belief, regardless of the truth content.

The reasons we do not accept your personal experience as valid evidence is:

a) It is no different from someone who we know is insane, yet acts upon their beliefs and assumptions

b) We can study the psychological/neurological/social mechanics behind religious experience and find out that what people consider "spiritual" experience is very much more physical than they believe.

Do you think religious people are insane?

 

[bhsmte]

Do you think religious people are insane?

Some are, some aren't.

Some atheists are insane, some aren't.

 

[Loudmouth]

Do you think religious people are insane?

I think we can all agree that humans believing in deities is a very normal thing for humans to do.

We can also see that humans believing in incorrect ideas is very normal.

 

[Colter]

As a believer, can you show me how you know your life will continue after death and how you have verified that it will?

no, I can't beyond Jesus and Lazarus returning from the dead, but if you are right, I will have no regret and you won't have the privilege of saying "I told you so." We wont exist and life was meaningless, there is no recollection in death.

 

[Loudmouth]

no, I can't beyond Jesus and Lazarus returning from the dead, but if you are right, I will have no regret and you won't have the privilege of saying "I told you so." We wont exist and life was meaningless, there is no recollection in death.

Why does there have to be an afterlife in order for life to have a meaning?

 

[bhsmte]

no, I can't beyond Jesus and Lazarus returning from the dead, but if you are right, I will have no regret and you won't have the privilege of saying "I told you so." We wont exist and life was meaningless, there is no recollection in death.

No afterlife = life is meaningless?

 

[Colter]

Why does there have to be an afterlife in order for life to have a meaning?

Life can have meaning right now, while you are alive, but when you are dead there is nothing. If you are dead then obviously there is no retrospective contemplation.

 

[bhsmte]

Life can have meaning right now, while you are alive, but when you are dead there is nothing. If you are dead then obviously there is no retrospective.

In other words, what you did during your life, has no meaning to those you left behind and impacted during your life?

 

[Loudmouth]

Life can have meaning right now, while you are alive, but when you are dead there is nothing. If you are dead then obviously there is no retrospective contemplation.

"We wont exist and life was meaningless, there is no recollection in death."--Colter

You seem to be changing your tune.

 

[bhsmte]

"We wont exist and life was meaningless, there is no recollection in death."--Colter

You seem to be changing your tune.

I find, he contradicts himself quite often.

Not atypical, when one is scrambling for an explanation.

 

[Colter]

In other words, what you did during your life, has no meaning to those you left behind and impacted during your life?

To the living yes, but they will one day be dead to, and eventually when the earth gets eaten up by the sun everything on it will be dead. All gone, meant nothing.

 

[Chany]

Do you think religious people are insane?

No.

I'm saying that claims based entirely upon personal, subjective experiences have the same amount of justification as an insane person's claims about what they are insane about.

 

[Chany]

To the living yes, but they will one day be dead to, and eventually when the earth gets eaten up by the sun everything on it will be dead. All gone, meant nothing.

So, everything must have an end?

 

[Colter]

"We wont exist and life was meaningless, there is no recollection in death."--Colter

You seem to be changing your tune.

No, you are looking for contradictions where there are none.

A dead person has no recollection. Its Atheist that claim death is the reward of a life lived well. A dead person doesn't draw on the experience of his or her life, derives no reflective satisfaction to the enjoyment of the moment.

 

[Colter]

So, everything must have an end?

Everything that you know has an end.

 

[Chany]

Everything that you know has an end.

By "end", I mean it philosophically. Does everything have some end, some goal it seeks to achieve? For example, the end of medicine is health, the intended end of college is an education, the intended end of a shovel is to dig dirt, etc.

 

[Chany]

No, you are looking for contradictions where there are none.

A dead person has no recollection. Its Atheist that claim death is the reward of a life lived well. A dead person doesn't draw on the experience of his or her life, derives no reflective satisfaction to the enjoyment of the moment.

Some atheists, such as myself, claim that the reward of a life lived well is a life lived well. The fact that I don't reflect on my life after my death does not make my life any less important to me.

 

[Colter]

By "end", I mean it philosophically. Does everything have some end, some goal it seeks to achieve? For example, the end of medicine is health, the intended end of college is an education, the intended end of a shovel is to dig dirt, etc.

I see, I would call it a purpose. Some might say the universe is self existent, that it contains no purpose, that it is just energy, mass, space without end. I would say that the universe has purpose, in that way it has an end, a meaning.

 

[Chany]

I see, I would call it a purpose. Some might say the universe is self existent, that it contains no purpose, that it is just energy, mass, space without end. I would say that the universe has purpose, in that way it has an end, a meaning.

What is the end of the universe?

 

[Colter]

Some atheists, such as myself, claim that the reward of a life lived well is a life lived well. The fact that I don't reflect on my life after my death does not make my life any less important to me.

Yes, I understand that, it sounds reasonable, your life has meaning right now to you as a conscious being.