Atheists, Theists, and Evolution

[Magnus Vile]

You are frustrated and lashing out. I suggest that you gather your composure. If your position is correct then resorting to invective betrays that it is not.

Uh. No. If his position is correct, then his position is correct. You can't say, "If your position is correct... then it isn't correct." without an obvious contradiction that anyone could see.

Well, apart from you, obviously...

Not that that is a good thing.

Reduced down, a Darwinist has greatly disapproved of me, a Creationist. This proves my rightness. Darwinian approval would have proven my wrongness since they think apes morphed into men and other assorted atheistic nonsense.

EV

Ok, I'm thinking that someone is having fun. I may be wrong, but I'm thinking Poe's law may be involved here...

1) No one, (excepting, of course, someone that contradicts himself with statements like, "If your position is correct then resorting to invective betrays that it is not.") thinks that apes morphed into anything.

Unless you're playing Pokemon, that is.

2) It's agnostic, not atheistic.

3) Evolution is ,thus far, supported by all availble, evidence, so it's only nonsense if a) your God is lying to us, b) is powerless to prevent someone else lying to us, or c) doesn't care that someone is lying to us. In which case,why trust the Bible's version of events? Someone could be lying...

Of course, (assuming there is a God) there's always d). The evidence that God left for humans to find aren't lies, and a literal interpretation of Genesis totally manages to miss the point.


I've come to believe that some creationists wouldn't belive Jesus, himself, if he were to tell them that evolution happened. And if he insisted it did happen, who knows what they might do to him?

Crucifixion is very popular, when it comes to divinities that disagree with people that value their own interpretation of a book over the evidence in fromt of their eyes.

Or so I'm given to understand.

 

[Electric Skeptic]

Evading the axiomatic indisputable point: All atheists, for all intents and purposes wholly support ToE.

No, they don't. This claim is neither axiomatic nor indisputable. In fact, it's manifestly false.

If this Darwinist cannot admit THIS "round earth" point then just think what they have done with private scientific evidence ?

So unless we agree with your falsehood...what? This doesn't even make sense.

Yes, thats my argument. These Christians are not genuine Christians by any objective definition or rendering. Jesus was the Divine Son of God - a Creationist whose lineage descends from Adam in the Bible and not an ape. Imagine that...Christians who THINK their Savior's Holy Blood has ape blood in it !

TEists are Darwinists/wolves in sheeps clothing. Their whole efforts are a recognition that ToE NEEDS the Bible or its atheist philosophy packaged as science.

Yes, we know of this rather stupid point which is in clear violation of the forum rules. It's been soundly refuted many times in this thread.

Deliberate misrepresenatation caused by the inability to refute WHAT I SAID.

It is no misrepresentation, and is a refutation of what you said.

I didn't say anything about UNDISPUTED scientific facts.

But evolutionary theory is UNDISPUTED within scientific circles. THe only opposition to it is religious.

The issue is human origins. Any "Christian" who supports the atheist belief about human origins is not a real Christian.

Oh, then they're safe, because there is no 'atheistic belief about human origins'. There's a scientific one, held by atheists and Christians alike, just like there are scientific positions on gravity, relativity, and so forth, held by both athiests and Christians alike.

They may THINK they are a real Christian but the Source accounts for these types as traitors. like Judas.

My point is the Bible corresponds with reality. Judas = all TEists. Judas THOUGHT he was saved too until....

Stop trying to pretend that your absurdity and ignorance of science and basic rationality is somehow supported by the bible. It's not.

 

[chaoschristian]

You are frustrated and lashing out. I suggest that you gather your composure. If your position is correct then resorting to invective betrays that it is not.

Reduced down, a Darwinist has greatly disapproved of me, a Creationist. This proves my rightness. Darwinian approval would have proven my wrongness since they think apes morphed into men and other assorted atheistic nonsense.

EV

***! It's a creationist parody of Chrizbot!

 

[Willtor]

No! He couldn't possibly be a parody! He's so clever! And he's outwitted all of us wolves-in-sheeps-clothing, causing us to reveal our true intentions by arguing with him. He's even got the EAC against the ropes.

Look at you all. You're "reasonable" arguments have been so utterly confounded, you can't even form coherent sentences. EV is a wily one. You should all just give up. Even if you're right (and you're clearly not), he's just too clever and quick witted.

EV, I'd rep you, again, but this forum doesn't allow that.

 

[Mocca]

Evading the axiomatic indisputable point: All atheists, for all intents and purposes wholly support ToE.

If this Darwinist cannot admit THIS "round earth" point then just think what they have done with private scientific evidence ?

NOT ALL ATHEISTS BELIEVE IN THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION DAMN IT! What you claim is not axiomatic truth. By definition, atheism is the lack of a belief in a god. It is not "belief in evolution" or "belief that no god exists," (note that believing no god exists is different from the lack of belief in a god), or whatever else, atheism is the lack of belief in a god. OMFSM.

Yes, thats my argument. These Christians are not genuine Christians by any objective definition or rendering. Jesus was the Divine Son of God - a Creationist whose lineage descends from Adam in the Bible and not an ape. Imagine that...Christians who THINK their Savior's Holy Blood has ape blood in it !

This is a typical example of the arrogance of most creationists: humans are superior to all other animals, therefore the idea that humans are related to chimpanzees is just too much to bear. Anyway, I present empirical evidence that humans share a common ancestor with chimpanzees in this thread.

TEists are Darwinists/wolves in sheeps clothing.

Support/Evidence?

Their whole efforts are a recognition that ToE NEEDS the Bible or its atheist philosophy packaged as science.

The Theory of Evolution is science, by definition. The Bible doesn't make it anything other than science; even with the Bible, the Theory of Evolution is still a scientific theory, nothing will change that. Therefore, the Theory of Evolution does not need the Bible. You have a problem with science?

Deliberate misrepresenatation caused by the inability to refute WHAT I SAID.

How does that sentence reply to this:

Your argument goes: "Because all atheists vigorously and fanatically support evolution, Christians cannot believe in evolution." How 'bout lets try this with gravity? "Because all atheists vigorously and fanatically support gravity, Christians cannot believe in gravity." You can obviously see that your argument is simply absurd. (Or not, depending on how many hallucinogens you've taken today.) [apparently lots]

My point is, simply because an atheist believes in X, does not mean Christians cannot believe in X, which is what your argument implies. Instead of a reply to my argument, however, I get handwaving. You can imagine how dejected I feel.

I didn't say anything about UNDISPUTED scientific facts. The issue is human origins. Any "Christian" who supports the atheist belief about human origins is not a real Christian.

Support/Evidence?

They may THINK they are a real Christian but the Source accounts for these types as traitors. like Judas.

The Theory of Evolution is a scientific theory and therefore, by definition does not make any metaphysical implications, including the existence of a God, and therefore your argument is flawed.

Actually, new scripture findings depict a different image of Judas. Try Googling "judas gospel" or "the gospel of judas." However, I'm not going to get into a discussion about this as it is rather irrelevant.

My point is the Bible corresponds with reality. Judas = all TEists. Judas THOUGHT he was saved too until....

I did.

Correct. Told you I did.

I will reply to the rest of your post ASAP.

EV

Just to make sure, I'll repost the relevant sections of my post:

You didn't actually explaion how existance of TEs provide evidence for the existance of Satan. Presumably, your argument goes:
Premise 1: Christians cannot be accepted by God if they accept evolution
Premise 2: Theistic evolutionists accept evolution and believe they're accepted by God.
Conclusion: Satan must be deceiving TEs.

Your conclusion is a non-sequitur based on a false premise (hint: look at premise 1). There could be other explanations for Premise 1 and Premise 2, including simply being ignorant, being brainwashed by an evil atheist conspiracy, etc. There are many other possibilites that fit the premises. However, we do not need to make a conclusion, as the premises are false.

In fact, let us examine the following premise in greater depth:

The ONLY source we have for God that is respected worldwide says He created by special creation and not atheist evolution.

Actually, this is completely false. The Pope, the Vatican, most of the European Chruches, and over 50% of believers worldwide, accept evolution.

Conclusion: your argument is based on logical fallacies, unsupported assertions, and lies, and therefore does provide support for the claim that theistic evolutionists are being deceived by Satan.

I'd like to note that in your argument you start with the questionable assertion that the Bible is absolute truth. You haven't provided any evidence or support for this proposition.

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

Evading the axiomatic indisputable point: All atheists, for all intents and purposes wholly support ToE.

I vote for this statement at this late date being strong evidence that this is pure troll.

 

[Ed Vidence]

I'd like to note that in your argument you start with the questionable assertion that the Bible is absolute truth. You haven't provided any evidence or support for this proposition.

Atheist philosophy feigning "openess" to Biblical truth.

EV

 

[Ed Vidence]

You have absolutely no idea how to reason, do you? And, apparently, absolutely no idea about what evolutionary theory is.

I've asked it before, but I'll ask it again - do you realise how stupid you are making Christians look?

IOW, this Darwinist thinks I am stupid; imagine that, a person who thinks apes morphed into men throwing stupid rocks around ?

Because you are a Darwinist this is the best endorsement that I am not stupid. Your endorsement would have proven me as such - glad I didn't get it.

EV

 

[Army of Juan]

Yes, thats my argument. These Christians are not genuine Christians by any objective definition or rendering. Jesus was the Divine Son of God - a Creationist whose lineage descends from Adam in the Bible and not an ape. Imagine that...Christians who THINK their Savior's Holy Blood has ape blood in it !

EV

..so sorry, I was looking for an excuse to use this.

 

[Dannager]

This guy has got to be the most frothing example of a parody account I have ever seen.

 

[rmwilliamsll]

Yes, thats my argument. These Christians are not genuine Christians by any objective definition or rendering. Jesus was the Divine Son of God - a Creationist whose lineage descends from Adam in the Bible and not an ape. Imagine that...Christians who THINK their Savior's Holy Blood has ape blood in it !

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. I immediately ran over and said "Stop! Don't do it!"
"Why shouldn't I?" he said.
I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!"
"Like what?"
"Well ... are you religious or atheist?"
"Religious."
"Me too! Are you Christian or Jewish?"
"Christian."
"Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?"
"Protestant."
"Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"
"Baptist."
"Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?"
"Baptist Church of God."
"Me too! Are you Original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of
God?"
"Reformed Baptist Church of God."
"Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1879, or Reformed
Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915?"
"Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915!"
To which I said, "Die, you heretic scumbag!" and pushed him off.

in the land of EV all churches are but one person, the limit on the number of Real Christians that can actually get along with each other.


"By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another" (Jn.13:35)

Anyone who says "I love God", but hates his brother, is a liar. For whoever who does not love the brother whom he can see, can not love God whom he has not seen" (1Jn.4:20)

"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you" (Jn.15:12,17, 13:34,35)


verses cut from: http://biblia.com/christ/love.htm

 

[Mocca]

Atheist philosophy feigning "openess" to Biblical truth.

EV

Good job answering my post. Good job, I say, you ignore every singe point except... wait a second, you do ignore every single point.

 

[Mocca]

in the land of EV all churches are but one person, the limit on the number of Real Christians that can actually get along with each other.


"By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another" (Jn.13:35)

Anyone who says "I love God", but hates his brother, is a liar. For whoever who does not love the brother whom he can see, can not love God whom he has not seen" (1Jn.4:20)

"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you" (Jn.15:12,17, 13:34,35)


verses cut from: http://biblia.com/christ/love.htm

ROFLMAO!

THAT'S HILARIOUS!

 

[Ed Vidence]

Evading the axiomatic indisputable point: All atheists, for all intents and purposes wholly support ToE

No, they don't. This claim is neither axiomatic nor indisputable. In fact, it's manifestly false.

EV: Why would anyone deny my initial self-evident point above ?

The reason doesn't really matter. What matters is that this opponent has and the denial demonstrates his lack of honesty and objectivity = an ordinary Darwinist.

So unless we agree with your falsehood...what? This doesn't even make sense.

Asserting "all atheists support Darwinism" does not make sense = the epitome of senselessness. Why would anyone trust what this Darwinist says if he cannot even admit that all atheists support Darwinism ?

But evolutionary theory is UNDISPUTED within scientific circles. THe only opposition to it is religious.

Only Darwinists believe this. Everyone else knows Science has falsified ToE long ago. Darwinism fails in science, calendar history, archaeology, and Textually.

Oh, then they're safe, because there is no 'atheistic belief about human origins'. There's a scientific one, held by atheists and Christians alike, just like there are scientific positions on gravity, relativity, and so forth, held by both athiests and Christians alike.

The only issue I am on about is the disputed issue of human origins. How could any true Christian be as such and agree with the atheist on origins ?

This is rhetorical. These Christians are pseudo, Darwinists attempting to destroy the objective claims of the Bible. Like Judas they THINK they are a Christian, when in fact they are deceived by Satan. The adversary is evidenced the same way invisible atomic particles are evidenced; by the effects of their presence. TEists prove the effects of the invisible devil's presence just like the Bible claims. This same source says human origins was by special creation and not by ape evolution. TEists support the existence of Satan and in turn this indirectly supports the fact of human special creation by God.

Either way the Bible is proven true.

EV

 

[Mocca]

EV: Why would anyone deny my initial self-evident point above ?

The reason doesn't really matter. What matters is that this opponent has and the denial demonstrates his lack of honesty and objectivity = an ordinary Darwinist.




Asserting "all atheists support Darwinism" does not make sense = the epitome of senselessness. Why would anyone trust what this Darwinist says if he cannot even admit that all atheists support Darwinism ?



Only Darwinists believe this. Everyone else knows Science has falsified ToE long ago. Darwinism fails in science, calendar history, archaeology, and Textually.




The only issue I am on about is the disputed issue of human origins. How could any true Christian be as such and agree with the atheist on origins ?

This is rhetorical. These Christians are pseudo, Darwinists attempting to destroy the objective claims of the Bible. Like Judas they THINK they are a Christian, when in fact they are deceived by Satan. The adversary is evidenced the same way invisible atomic particles are evidenced; by the effects of their presence. TEists prove the effects of the invisible devil's presence just like the Bible claims. This same source says human origins was by special creation and not by ape evolution. TEists support the existence of Satan and in turn this support indirectly supports the fact of human special creation by God.

Either way the Bible is proven true.

EV

You imply that atheist and theist cannot agree. Well, they do, on a lot of things. I'm willing to bet we agree that 1 + 1 = 2.

 

[Lord_Marx]

This has to be a joke, my faith in humanity can't take much more of this..

 

[Mocca]

Atheism is the combination of three morphemes, "a" + "the" + "ism". "a" is not, "the" is god, and "ism" is belief in. Put in order, atheism is the lack of belief in a god. I'll even link it if you don't believe me.

The lack of a belief in a god does not logically imply the acceptance of evolution. There are plenty of other beliefs an atheist can hold regarding the origin of life, or an atheist can simply not hold a view regarding the origin of life, like my friend, who "honestly didn't care."

Therefore, atheism is not sufficient (nor is it necessary) for acceptance of evolution.

 

[chaoschristian]

I poured myself a bowl of Alphabits cereal this morning, and after staring into it for several hours I was able to discern a lucid refutation of all of EV's arguments, especially his first axiomatic self-evident truth, and I would share it with you now, but I got hungry and ate it.

Sorry.

 

[Lilandra]

Only Darwinists believe this. Everyone else knows Science has falsified ToE long ago. Darwinism fails in science, calendar history, archaeology, and Textually.

Really. What science in particular falsifies the TOE? You seem as though you feel the rest of us are deceived. I for one would be grateful to be corrected if I am in error.

The only issue I am on about is the disputed issue of human origins. How could any true Christian be as such and agree with the atheist on origins ?

I have had discussions with athiests on the board and have had beloved family members, who were agnostic.

One thing that is a unifying theme with them is an honest view of nature. There is no making things up about origins. They don't threaten eternal torment if someone disagrees with them. They are all to willing to show evidence for anything they say.

Biblical literalists like you are the opposite. They don't discuss anything. They preach.
Anyone who doesn't agree with them they namecall and judge

Others like you flat out lie. Like saying you were a deist but then thumping the Bible in people's faces.

Now why would an atheist be more truthful about evolution than a literalist?

Because they are telling the truth.

 

[Electric Skeptic]

IOW, this Darwinist thinks I am stupid; imagine that, a person who thinks apes morphed into men throwing stupid rocks around ?

Sorry, but nobody thinks that "apes morphed into men". That's just your strawman.

EV: Why would anyone deny my initial self-evident point above ?

Because it's not self-evident. It's not even true, as has been demonstrated in this very thread. You just choose to ignore it.

The reason doesn't really matter. What matters is that this opponent has and the denial demonstrates his lack of honesty and objectivity = an ordinary Darwinist.

False again. You making a claim and then stating that anyone who disagrees with it demonstrates their dishonesty by doing so hinges on the accuracy of your initial claim. Since the claim is manifestly false, my disputing it proves nothing at all about my honesty (except that, had I agreed with it, it would have demonstrated that I am either dishonest or ignorant).

Asserting "all atheists support Darwinism" does not make sense = the epitome of senselessness. Why would anyone trust what this Darwinist says if he cannot even admit that all atheists support Darwinism ?

All atheists don't support 'Darwinism'. That's simply a fact that's been demonstrated in this very thread - a demonstration you choose to ignore.

Only Darwinists believe this. Everyone else knows Science has falsified ToE long ago. Darwinism fails in science, calendar history, archaeology, and Textually.

That's just a lie. The vast majority (talking over 99% here) of scientists, worldwide, of all religious beliefs, accept evolutionary theory. It has been verified repeatedly by science.

The only issue I am on about is the disputed issue of human origins. How could any true Christian be as such and agree with the atheist on origins ?

Quite easily. The same way they can agree with the atheist on gravity, or germ theory, or any of the myriad other things on which atheists and christians agree. You are trying to set up this false dichotomy of atheists and christians not being able to agree on ANYthing, and it's simply false.

This is rhetorical. These Christians are pseudo, Darwinists attempting to destroy the objective claims of the Bible. Like Judas they THINK they are a Christian, when in fact they are deceived by Satan.

Completely false, unsupported, and against forum rules.

The adversary is evidenced the same way invisible atomic particles are evidenced; by the effects of their presence. TEists prove the effects of the invisible devil's presence just like the Bible claims.

And I could say that you prove the effects of the invisible devil's presence. However, my saying it, like your saying what you do above, doesn't make it so.

This same source says human origins was by special creation and not by ape evolution.

And, taken literally, that same source is wrong.

TEists support the existence of Satan and in turn this indirectly supports the fact of human special creation by God.

Once again, unsupported, insulting, and against forum rules.

Either way the Bible is proven true.

The bible may well be true - that is, certain interpretations of it. However, nothing you have stated is remotely proof of this fact.