Atheists taking Communion

[FireDragon76]

But not everybody is cast outside.

I don't think that parable is applicable in this case, I think he's speaking more about religious authorities that were rejecting his preaching.

 

[FireDragon76]

Christ did not include any but followers of his at the Lord's Supper.

What do you call Judas?

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

What do you call Judas?

At the time, he was a follower of Jesus. Not a particularly good one, but one nonetheless.

 

[FireDragon76]

At the time, he was a follower of Jesus. Not a particularly good one, but one nonetheless.

And as a Lutheran, I believe God makes followers through the sacraments. If we choose to reject the grace God gives us, that is our responsibility. But to not offer it in the first place doesn't really make sense.

Furthermore, how is a priest supposed to mark out who is and is not an atheist or true follower? I think that's something only God should judge in the end.

 

[FireDragon76]

The irony is when I look at some atheists on this forum, they are nearer to the Kingdom than many Christians here. It would be curious to deny them communion just because they are more honest than most Christians.

 

[RDKirk]

Communion demands a preparation on the communicant's part. To eat unworthily is to be in disharmony with the meal. Should a person come to Communion as they'd go to any other meal, considering themselves to be merely eating bread and drinking wine, if they feel neither desire for God's grace nor commitment to participate in the holy feast, then such a person will be guilty of disrespecting Christ's body and blood. Their guilt will consist in their hindering God's grace in the Sacrament.

I'm going to start from here.

Despite the theology of communion accepted by a particular congregation, communion by definition is something more than just a thing folks do while sitting in the pews.

It should should not be terribly unusual that some persons--even bona fide members of the congregation--would not participate in communion if that person has not examined himself for proper spiritual preparation for the sacrament. In such a case, a visitor should certainly not feel pressured to take part if some of the congregation are not even taking part.

I've been a member of one congregation that actually held a separate service on Sunday evening exclusive to congregation members, and it was in that service that communion was taken. The Sunday morning service was for members to bring their guests. The entire character of the service was oriented toward non-members and did not have communion, whereas the evening service was oriented toward members.

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

And as a Lutheran, I believe God makes followers through the sacraments. If we choose to reject the grace God gives us, that is our responsibility. But to not offer it in the first place doesn't really make sense.

Furthermore, how is a priest supposed to mark out who is and is not an atheist or true follower? I think that's something only God should judge in the end.

As you are a Lutheran, you might be interested in these words from the LCMS, "Rather, he (the pastor) is to instruct, admonish, and invite to (or bar from) the Sacrament in accordance with biblical and confessional teaching about the Sacrament." - Admission to the Lord's Supper.

 

[FireDragon76]

As you are a Lutheran, you might be interested in these words from the LCMS, "Rather, he (the pastor) is to instruct, admonish, and invite to (or bar from) the Sacrament in accordance with biblical and confessional teaching about the Sacrament." - Admission to the Lord's Supper.

I do not belong to the Missouri Synod, though. I belong to the ELCA, and we regard these policies as determined by the local congregation. At my own church, we have communion open to all the baptized, and this is a point I disagree with the pastor, because I believe it is Jesus table, and he doesn't turn people away. But then, I accept we disagree on this issue and I respect that he feels conscience bound to only give communion to the baptized. I pray that it is different in the future. But then, I am more liberal than most in my congregation.

 

[Chesterton]

A funeral or a wedding where all of one's closest family and friends are gathered. Depending on personal circumstances, the atheist's beliefs may not be known, and there may even be compelling personal reasons for the atheist to keep her beliefs concealed, for the moment. Given her upbringing, it is generally expected that, given the option of communion, she will partake; there are no known reasons—among anyone gathered—for her to refuse to partake and any refusal would certainly be a source of gossip, if not condemnation.

I don't know about Catholics, but I think it's the same as with us. We don't serve communion at funerals or weddings. We serve it at the worship service where it is the centerpiece of the service - the reason you come.

For anyone to receive scorn or condemnation is unimaginable in my experience. There's a young guy at my church, he's agnostic, he often comes with his mom who is Christian. He's a nice guy, helps out with things that need doing. When everyone recites the Nicence creed aloud, he does not. He won't say "I believe..." something he does not believe, and I completely respect that. He's respectful of everyone else, and everyone's respectful of him.

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

I do not belong to the Missouri Synod, though. I belong to the ELCA, and we regard these policies as determined by the local congregation. At my own church, we have communion open to all the baptized, and this is a point I disagree with the pastor, because I believe it is Jesus table, and he doesn't turn people away.

Ah, the ELCA. That explains a lot.

 

[FireDragon76]

Ah, the ELCA. That explains a lot.

Yeah, the LCMS was always a no-go for me. I am not fond of religious fundamentalism or the misogyny implicit in their views of ministry.

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

Yeah, the LCMS was always a no-go for me. I am not fond of religious fundamentalism or the misogyny implicit in their views of ministry.

We coild discuss this more - but this isn't the appropriate thread for such a dialogue.

 

[Dave G.]

I don't know about Catholics, but I think it's the same as with us. We don't serve communion at funerals or weddings. We serve it at the worship service where it is the centerpiece of the service - the reason you come.

For anyone to receive scorn or condemnation is unimaginable in my experience. There's a young guy at my church, he's agnostic, he often comes with his mom who is Christian. He's a nice guy, helps out with things that need doing. When everyone recites the Nicence creed aloud, he does not. He won't say "I believe..." something he does not believe, and I completely respect that. He's respectful of everyone else, and everyone's respectful of him.

So does the agnostic receive communion ?

 

[Chesterton]

So does the agnostic receive communion ?

No.

 

[bekkilyn]

Wasn't there a parable of a King who took an unworthy man out of his table?

Who among us is to decide on behalf of Christ who is unworthy to be at Christ's table when *only* Christ knows the heart?

 

[bekkilyn]

Christ did not include any but followers of his at the Lord's Supper.

How do we determine who is a true follower of Christ? If we must turn away all the atheists, then must we not also turn away all the nominal Christians?

 

[RDKirk]

Who among us is to decide on behalf of Christ who is unworthy to be at Christ's table when *only* Christ knows the heart?

Communion is not a matter of judging anyone "worthy" or "unworthy" by any standards by which we'd rather be egalitarian.

This is a matter of a person's own confession of commitment to the Body of Christ.

The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.
...
And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

How can someone honestly participate in this communion with those around him if he denies being a member of that communing Body?

That's like inviting someone to take the oath of enlistment into the military--but not for "realsies."

 

[Not David]

How do we determine who is a true follower of Christ? If we must turn away all the atheists, then must we not also turn away all the nominal Christians?

That's why Catholics have confession, and if someone would be a follower of Christ, he or she would convert

 

[bekkilyn]

Communion is not a matter of judging anyone "worthy" or "unworthy" by any standards by which we'd rather be egalitarian.

This is a matter of a person's own confession of commitment to the Body of Christ.

The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.
...
And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

How can someone honestly participate in this communion with those around him if he denies being a member of that communing Body?

That's like inviting someone to take the oath of enlistment into the military--but not for "realsies."

Shouldn't it then be up to the person then to self-examine and make the choice vs. someone else making a judgment on their worthiness?

 

[bekkilyn]

That's why Catholics have confession, and if someone would be a follower of Christ, he or she would convert

I've known many Catholics who are basically "Sunday Christians".