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Atheists in Catholicism

Chrystal-J

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Well...it's good that you realize the situation. You can still attend Mass, seek out friendship but I do think their would be a problem if one person assumes that you are a believer & find out you are not. They might feel betrayed in some way.

I had a friend who went to church for social reasons and was causing problems with everyone cuz she would complain about church teachings and the hierarchy. I would be puzzled as to why she would complain about basic church doctrine. Then I realized she was there to socialize and not to worship. (By some of the things she told me.) She ended up causing so many problems with other church members, that they quit speaking to her and she left (for another church, of all things). I felt betrayed cuz I thought I might learn about Catholicism from her.
 
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WarriorAngel

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I had a friend who went to church for social reasons and was causing problems with everyone cuz she would complain about church teachings and the hierarchy. I would be puzzled as to why she would complain about basic church doctrine. Then I realized she was there to socialize and not to worship. (By some of the things she told me.) She ended up causing so many problems with other church members, that they quit speaking to her and she left (for another church, of all things). I felt betrayed cuz I thought I might learn about Catholicism from her.

2 Timothy 3:6
For of these sort are they who creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, who are led away with divers desires: [7] Ever learning, and never attaining to the knowledge of the truth. [8] Now as Jannes and Mambres resisted Moses, so these also resist the truth, men corrupted in mind, reprobate concerning the faith. [9] But they shall proceed no farther; for their folly shall be manifest to all men, as theirs also was.


I guess some like to stir stuff around.
 
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Chrystal-J

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2 Timothy 3:6
For of these sort are they who creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, who are led away with divers desires: [7] Ever learning, and never attaining to the knowledge of the truth. [8] Now as Jannes and Mambres resisted Moses, so these also resist the truth, men corrupted in mind, reprobate concerning the faith. [9] But they shall proceed no farther; for their folly shall be manifest to all men, as theirs also was.


I guess some like to stir stuff around.

Yeah, she was silly and became a major problem. She was spreading rumors about the priest, trying to get him in trouble. She was constantly complaining about church activities and services. I often wondered why she bothered to come to church at all.
 
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Caedmon

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I went with a good friend to my first mass in more than three years today. I still have a hard time believing in most things, but I had a long conversation with my friend, and they've been helping me through a very difficult time in my life. I'm going back to mass on a regular basis.
 
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mark46

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I think that there is a big difference between the Catholic approach and the of JW's.

Catholics (and Anglicans and Orthodox and Methodists and others) are welcoming. All people are invited to attend and participate to the degree they can. And no, one should not receive communion.

So, Jesus invited you to his home, to his celebration, no strings attached.

It would be like me asking if there is still a place for me with the JW's & Kingdom Hall although I outright reject their beliefs as well as a belief in God.
 
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Caedmon

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I think that there is a big difference between the Catholic approach and the of JW's.

Catholics (and Anglicans and Orthodox and Methodists and others) are welcoming. All people are invited to attend and participate to the degree they can. And no, one should not receive communion.

So, Jesus invited you to his home, to his celebration, no strings attached.
I know the rules better than most, so no, I didn't receive. Thanks for the support.
 
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Starlightsobright

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I went with a good friend to my first mass in more than three years today. I still have a hard time believing in most things, but I had a long conversation with my friend, and they've been helping me through a very difficult time in my life. I'm going back to mass on a regular basis.

I am glad you have a good friend for support and that you're going back to Mass.
 
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S

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Is there a place for them? I know the teachings of the Church, I simply do not believe in a literal understanding of most of them. I also no longer believe in the supernatural. I appreciate many of the basic images and ideas, such as the nurturing mother image and the masculine/feminine blended image of the suffering Christ. I also celebrate major holidays with family. I would appreciate the social network, but I am very liberal and do not take any of it literally. Given the general atmosphere of most parishes, would I have a place there?
This is the first time I've ever seen a liberal Catholic admit that they don't believe in God. Usually they hint at it a lot but won't come right out and admit it. I'll give you credit for being honest. Know that believing in God is a decision and not a feeling. But there is a difference between having doubts and hardening your heart and rejecting God. The best thing you can do is continue to attend Mass but refrain from going up for Holy Communion until you can at least decide to believe and practice the faith despite your doubts. :)
 
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Colin

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I still have a hard time believing in most things,

I can share with much of what you are saying because during the last few months I have been experiencing difficulties with things "religious" which I had taken for granted mainly because of my upbringing .

I wonder , whether like me , the root of what you are experiencing is to be found in the images and concepts that the word "GOD" creates within us . The images we have of "GOD" are nothing but that . They are images . Some of them may be false . Some of them may be near the truth . But the images are never the reality . They are visual representations of a reality we can never understand . I like that part of the 1992 Catechism which refers to "GOD" as "The inexpressible , the incomprehensible , the ungraspable" .

I feel that the whole belief structure built around me has been dismantled . But that does not worry me . As a cradle Catholic I have come to realise after decades of "belief" that , if I am honest with myself , my beliefs have been second-hand , belief by proxy . And that is no longer good enough . I have a need for my beliefs to be genuinely mine , coming from my experience of life and speaking authentically to me within my given life situation .

Some words are particularly pertinent to me at the moment , and I need to rest in those words . The words of Jesus during the storm : " Quiet now ! Be calm ! " The words of the Psalmist : " Be still and know that I am God ! "

So I take one day at a time . I don't struggle or get uptight , but I must admit that I have a confidence and a peace which I did not have before . The "trappings of second-hand religion" having been taken from me or discarded by me , I don't know which , has left me in a position where I am naked before that Source who is the Source of all that exists . I await patiently for whatever will flow to me from that Source , and I do not despair . The more I reflect on this , the more my attitude becomes one of thanksgiving towards the Dator Munerum , the Giver of gifts , for all is gift .

Soon after this period of unknowing began I was looking in the small library at the back of church . I spotted two books , " Why Pray ? " by Mark Gibbard and " Why Go To Church ? " by Father Timothy Radcliffe O.P. By some coincidence they were just what I needed . They speak very much to me in a non-judgemental way , accepting that we do doubt and question , and that it is no bad thing for our growth .

I am sorry if all this is drivel to you . I post it in case it helps .

If it helps you might find some of the talks and lectures by Timothy Radcliffe on Youtube beneficial . I find them refreshing .

Thanks for your honesty , and don't think you are alone . I am beginning to see light at the end of the tunnel , and you will I am sure . Far be it from me to put myself anywhere near that light of the 20th Century , Mother Teresa , but we do now know that she experienced doubts and struggles over her religious beliefs for nearly 50 years until her death . She felt no presence of God whatsoever , neither in her heart or in the Eucharist . She expressed grave doubts about God's existence and pain over her lack of faith . So perhaps you are in good company .

Take heart !
 
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WarriorAngel

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I went with a good friend to my first mass in more than three years today. I still have a hard time believing in most things, but I had a long conversation with my friend, and they've been helping me through a very difficult time in my life. I'm going back to mass on a regular basis.
Ya know - some of the greatest Saints didnt have faith at first. ;)
St Augustine... who became a doctor of the Church. [Still wish i could see the movie - Restless Heart] :(

Dont focus on doubt - where there is focus - there seems to be growth. IE - the more we feed it - the more we notice it.

And btw - good news, thanks for sharing. :thumbsup:
I hope the Lord helps you - He knows you are going thru quite a test. As odd as it sounds - trying in spite of doubt is 33.33% of it...
Faith - hope - love.
 
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Caedmon

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This is the first time I've ever seen a liberal Catholic admit that they don't believe in God. Usually they hint at it a lot but won't come right out and admit it. I'll give you credit for being honest. Know that believing in God is a decision and not a feeling. But there is a difference between having doubts and hardening your heart and rejecting God. The best thing you can do is continue to attend Mass but refrain from going up for Holy Communion until you can at least decide to believe and practice the faith despite your doubts. :)
I know lots of liberal Catholics who believe in God. I consider my case on its own basis, not as representative of any group or individual. If I eventually feel like God is real, I will most likely continue to be liberal. I would say that belief is the feeling, but actions are the decision. I don't feel like God exists, but I decided to go to mass because of the way it makes me feel through the principles it provides that influence my decisions. I don't disbelieve because of a decision to harden my heart. I cannot believe because I don't feel like it's literally true at the moment. However, I am willing to leave such unknowable ideas to mystery because of the benefits of being involved in a parish. I would say I am living the Catholic faith through my actions, not because I feel like God told me to do it, but because I have decided it is the right thing to do.
 
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Caedmon

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I wonder , whether like me , the root of what you are experiencing is to be found in the images and concepts that the word "GOD" creates within us . The images we have of "GOD" are nothing but that . They are images . Some of them may be false . Some of them may be near the truth . But the images are never the reality . They are visual representations of a reality we can never understand . I like that part of the 1992 Catechism which refers to "GOD" as "The inexpressible , the incomprehensible , the ungraspable" .
While I think that God is ultimately unknowable, I think that the images associated with the Catholic faith provide the basic emotional comforts that all people need, and therefore are very important in the formation of faith. I also think that images of the faith are very personal, and no two people will perceive them identically. I can only speak for myself when I say that the image of Mary as a loving Mother who speaks truth with perfect gentleness is an image that gives me comfort. The ideas behind the image can be extremely complex, and for me they include ideas on how to love other people by loving yourself, among other things. My patron is St. Francis of Assisi, and his prayer is related to this and important to me in that I think the prayer is not a torturous admonition that forces me into rejecting myself, but that has me step outside of myself and treat myself like Jesus would treat me, instead of tearing myself apart because I think it will make me a better person. Of course the implications the Catholic faith has with my personal history go far beyond the scope of a single post on an internet forum, and I will not elaborate beyond what I've mentioned, but I hope you can understand what I mean.
 
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Caedmon

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Ya know - some of the greatest Saints didnt have faith at first. ;)
St Augustine... who became a doctor of the Church. [Still wish i could see the movie - Restless Heart] :(

Dont focus on doubt - where there is focus - there seems to be growth. IE - the more we feed it - the more we notice it.

And btw - good news, thanks for sharing. :thumbsup:
I hope the Lord helps you - He knows you are going thru quite a test. As odd as it sounds - trying in spite of doubt is 33.33% of it...
Faith - hope - love.
Thank you for your support. As I have said before, I don't do it because I necessarily believe, but because I've decided it is the right thing to do, for various reasons that go beyond what I want to discuss here. Suffice it to say that I have decided there are many benefits for me to go back to mass and participate in a parish. If doing that in spite of my disbelief qualifies as faith, then I will claim that faith.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Thank you for your support. As I have said before, I don't do it because I necessarily believe, but because I've decided it is the right thing to do, for various reasons that go beyond what I want to discuss here. Suffice it to say that I have decided there are many benefits for me to go back to mass and participate in a parish. If doing that in spite of my disbelief qualifies as faith, then I will claim that faith.
There is a long list of Saints - surprisingly some of the better known - who struggled with doubt.
St Therese the Little Flower was plagued with doubts - but she continued to 'believe' in spite of those doubts. Same with Mother Therese.
Their actions - in spite of the overwhelming doubts - and continued perserverence - is kind of nice to know.
Doubt is part of the human experience. Trying to work thru it and in spite of it means a lot more than you realize.
Its both logical and illogical to doubt.
God is enigmatic.

I work thru doubts thru logic.
 
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