Except, of course, those like me that would continue to save the house. I see no benefit to allowing it to be destroyed, especially if I really want to live there.
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This is the most fitting analogy I've seen in a while - pass the popcorn
You either accept or reject. You either enjoy G-d's Presence and seek it, or the opposite. Ultimately there is no middle ground. Currently there all all sorts of shades of grey, which confuses the issue(s).
Except, of course, those like me that would continue to save the house. I see no benefit to allowing it to be destroyed, especially if I really want to live there.
If He says you have to come to Him and seek forgiveness, that's the way it is.
You either accept or reject. You either enjoy G-d's Presence and seek it, or the opposite. Ultimately there is no middle ground. Currently there all all sorts of shades of grey, which confuses the issue(s).
Excellent analogy.
Gods forgiveness/eternal life is the same sort of gift our lives are the sort that is granted us independent of our consent. Christians tend to put the gift of salvation in the same category as gifts one would get on Christmas-morning, which can be returned or refused, but salvation is not that sort of gift, imo.
Apparently he does, and sacrifice, and he's also given to human emotions like jealousy and anger.
And yet the majority of those who believe this still think that in spite of all Jesus supposedly went through to acquire mans salvation His efforts will result in only a small fraction of all mankind getting saved. All that work He put into it, being tortured and killed, and yet at the end of the day the success lies with the sinner's ability to make the Correct Choice. If human ego isn't behind that I don't know what is. I swear I had to have been brainwashed to believe such a thing back when I did.
Zaac, there's a fine point of language where Freodin has a valid point. Consider the thief on the Cross. He never asked for forgiveness. Jesus came out with "Father forgive them," not in response to anyone asking. Yet what Freodin is missing, is that both confession and repentance are required. Apparently he'd prefer to gloss over all that.
Anyway the point is still reconciliation, which is a two way street. Semantics change nothing.
Read my response to Doveaman. Read my original analogy again. You should see the qualitative difference in them... and perhaps be willing to adress my original point instead of eating popcorn.This is the most fitting analogy I've seen in a while - pass the popcorn.
I thought we were discussing how a loving father would eternally punish their children? Sticking with this analogy, it doesn't matter if my child is kicking or screaming, no matter how bad they want to stay on the RR track, I'm pulling them out of harms warm before the train hits them, assuming I had the power to do so.So you're saved whether you like it or not? G-d drags you kicking and screaming into His Presence? Please illustrate how this is loving in any sense of the word.
So you're saved whether you like it or not? G-d drags you kicking and screaming into His Presence? Please illustrate how this is loving in any sense of the word.
There are lots of theological terms to point out the falsehood of this belief, that is not Christianity at all but heresy. I prefer to skip the gobbledygook and just point out it's wrong, so good on you for rejecting it!
Jesus paid for something for us that we were never expected to pay for?
He came to serve but what does he do?
He came to save us from himself?
A god that can do anything cant forgive?
Not meaning to be a pain but I just cant understand this at all.
Speaking as a one who was raised more or less Buddhist and as an atheist-agnostic i can tell you this is completely false. it is a weird and rather insulting falsehood at that.
So you are damned whether you like it or not? God throws you kicking and screaming into Hell?So you're saved whether you like it or not? G-d drags you kicking and screaming into His Presence? Please illustrate how this is loving in any sense of the word.
To someone who comes into contact with Christianity as an exotic and rather strange religion, there are some concepts that are really hard to work with.
Like, god sets the rules, and expects 'payment' for breaking them. Punishment vastly dispropotionate to the "crime".
But to help out, he splits himself into two parts, and then tortures one of them to death as a way to pay himself. Then he comes back to life.
I cant grasp the sense of it.
so if i cant grasp the sense and dont even believe it, i am to be punished far far beyond what was 'payment' for everyone elses sins?
is that how it is supposed to work?
Which leaves two options; Either he didn't do enough, or he is incapable of saving everybody from a hell he created.
Well... that's certainly weird...
I'm pretty sure I wouldn't allow any war in my heaven.
We believe that it was only a small fraction of Jews that have remained loyal to God and His covenant all these years as the prophets foretold. Interesting how those ideas are similar.
Yup, Christianity has Judaism as it's foundation. (Of course this is poorly phrased; bypassing Christ is not implied)
As someone who doesn't believe in free will,
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