Atheists go to hell even if they are good!? (2)

[Freodin]

String theory did not exist 20 years ago. Back to the drawing board with you!

Kaluza–Klein theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Philothei]

So who did?

Who put it in the fire?

 

[Freodin]

Who put it in the fire?

Me. That means "I" am the cause for my actions.... and this is not caused by something else. It is in itself "uncaused".

Did you ever hear of Thomas Aquinas?

 

[Philothei]

Me. That means "I" am the cause for my actions.... and this is not caused by something else. It is in itself "uncaused".

Did you ever hear of Thomas Aquinas?

So when you decide for your actions it is you....When you decide to live a life void of God's presence...then it is God's fault ?? How?

 

[Freodin]

So when you decide for your actions it is you....When you decide to live a life void of God's presence...then it is God's fault ?? How?

I am just trying to follow your logic to its endpoint.

If I am the cause of my actions, and my causing my actions is in itself uncause... that this means that I am the uncaused cause. That is: God.

Not that I believe that... but either your initial reasoning is somehow faulty, or you have just disproved "the Church's greatest theologian and philosopher."

(Not that I agree with Thomas Aquinas, but I think his error was in a different conclusion)


See, the whole issue of "responsibility" has in my view not an absolute idealistic meaning... it is a means to an end: ensuring that intended behaviour is propagated.
I don't hold to that idea that "we are not responsible for our actions, because they were caused by something else".
First, "we" cannot be excluded from "something else"... "we" are part of "everything else", and thus have to take our part of responsibility.
Second, "we" can learn from our previous behaviour... and THAT is the point of responsibility... to work out how and why our actions are cause and what to do in order to achive a different result next time.

In that regard, it is not my position that "I am not responsible for my actions, but God is!", but "I am responsible for my actions in the same way that God is."

 

[razeontherock]

Kaluza–Klein theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Like I said, get back to me after you work your way through the 10 dimensions of string theory.

 

[Skavau]

Also just because God created... and he knows when he will drink ...so? what? I see no connection there...His mom knows too...so?

No she doesn't. She can predict when I might drink. But she doesn't know. She isn't deriving her knowledge of me drinking from seeing into the future.

 

[Philothei]

No she doesn't. She can predict when I might drink. But she doesn't know. She isn't deriving her knowledge of me drinking from seeing into the future.

This does not make sense.... Predictions are not the same knowing? If I make a prediction that comes true then that would be knowing something in advance. Prediction is indeed a 'telling" of what action will take place in the future. Like I said before there are psychics that can do that.

 

[Skavau]

This does not make sense.... Predictions are not the same knowing? If I make a prediction that comes true then that would be knowing something in advance.

No it wouldn't. I predicted that Reading would beat Cardiff in the Championship play offs. They did. It didn't mean that I knew that Reading would beat Cardiff.

Prediction is indeed a 'telling" of what action will take place in the future. Like I said before there are psychics that can do that.

Yes, I know people claim to do that - and if they can, then reality becomes pointless. If the future is knowable to the point where predictions made based on said knowledge cannot be wrong then the future cannot change.

 

[Doveaman]

You cannot reject forgiveness...

So the sin is not to ask for forgiveness... not rejecting it. But that is a sin that is extremely easy to be cleansed.

If there is any god who thinks that I have offended him and wants me to ask for his forgiveness, I hearby do so. Please forgive me whatever you think I need forgiven.

Forgiveness is a part of the redemptive process which leads to the salvation. The redemptive process includes forgiveness and reconciliation. God forgives us because He wants reconciliation with us so that He can then save us by giving us the deposit of the Holy Spirit which guarantees our Eternal life:

“If the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who lives in you.” (Rom 8:11).

As Christians, we say we are saved simply because we have the deposit of the Holy Spirit living in us which guarantees our Eternal life. We are not saved by the death of Christ. We are reconciled by the death of Christ, after which we are then saved by the Spirit of Christ living in us:

“For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to Him through the death of His Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through His life!” (Rom 5:10).

Christians, through faith, were reconciled through the physical death of Christ and then saved through His spiritual life. We are forgiven then reconciled then saved.

Reconciliation – the reestablishment of a relationship following a separation – is a two way street. God did forgive all mankind apart from our choosing to be forgiven. But our reconciliation can only be complete by both parties choosing to be reconciled with each other.

God has already chosen to be reconciled with us, and now it is our turn to choose to be reconciled with Him. If we choose not to be reconciled with God then we will remain separated from God by our own choice, never to be saved, and in the end we will only have ourselves to blame.

“Now then, we [Christians] are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you [Non-Christians] on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God. For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” (2 Cor 5:20-21).

 

[Freodin]

Like I said, get back to me after you work your way through the 10 dimensions of string theory.

Like I said... I did that twenty years ago...

 

[Freodin]

So when you decide for your actions it is you....When you decide to live a life void of God's presence...then it is God's fault ?? How?

Counterquestion:

You put a gun to my head and tell me "Give me a million dollars or I'll pull the trigger."

When I decide not to give you the money... who is responsible for my death?

 

[cubinity]

Counterquestion:

You put a gun to my head and tell me "Give me a million dollars or I'll pull the trigger."

When I decide not to give you the money... who is responsible for my death?

That depends... Did you predict she was bluffing?

 

[CaliforniaSun]

This does not make sense.... Predictions are not the same knowing? If I make a prediction that comes true then that would be knowing something in advance. Prediction is indeed a 'telling" of what action will take place in the future. Like I said before there are psychics that can do that.

Really?