Atheists, define 'God'

[Skavau]

Yes, and these are the most simplistic terms we can use to define Him. Holy is another term. Of course, holy differs in that, holy IS God. Although, we may be asked what is the definition of holy. In that case, Holy equals good and love, but not all good and love are holy.

The argument that a "good" God and a "loving" God would not allow for Hell, is countered by the fact that God is also Holy. And if God is Holy, then there has to be a Hell. There can be no reward for unholiness.

The part I highlighted in bold is white noise.

Why does a "holy" God require hell? What does that even mean? What does a God being 'holy' even have to do with being good and loving - traits that do directly contradict any plans to eternal torment people for eternity.

 

[Non sequitur]

Atheists by nature seem more at home attacking a principle or opinion or belief than defending one or coming up with one of their own. When asked "what do you think" or "how do you define", atheists seem to get real vague almost generic and actually seem to get offended by the question even to the point of deflection or they go right into attacking some "interior motive" they think the question is trying to prove. Nothing is taken at face value.

Atheists get vague... about answering something they lack belief in. Why is this so hard to digest?

Nobody is attacking anything. Maybe you haven't been reading the comments.

I mean, the simple question asked by the OP is getting turned into this "It's your word, you define it so I can tell you how stupid you are" instead of just objectively answering the question.

Why so defensive?
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It's a simple question, about an intangible "thing", that only others define and believe in...

What's with the gross misrepresentation?

 

[Davian]

God is good

 

[Non sequitur]

See how quickly the thread goes from a simple question to atheists to an offensive assault on theism.

Can you list some of these "assaults on theism"?

Why not just answer the question simply? I mean, even atheists must agree with theists that there is such a word as "god"...right? And this word does have a personal meaning to each of them...even if it a completely negative one So why be scared to share, honestly and without having to lash out (defense mechanism).

Cuz it's not a simple answer.

Yes, there is a word "god".

Why are you trying to make up this false idea of atheists being scared and lashing out. You are trying so hard.

You've yet to show anyone lashing out or assaulting.

Wasn't there something in your holy book about bearing false witness?

Why turn it back around on theists when the question wasn't meant to "box in" but to simply inquire?

If you don't like the answers, which atheists inherently lack a belief in, then you're doing it wrong.

 

[gav1nzdad]

So let me recap ...

1) God is good.
2) God is love.
3) God is holy.
4) God is a "He".
5) God "allows" for stuff.
6) God has got something to do with rewards.
(7) And "Hell" figures into this, too, somehow)

Anything else you wish to amend.

1 thru 3 you've got right. As for 4, we refer to God as a He because that is how God is referred to in the bible. Personally, I believe that God is more complex than to be limited to be male or female (and no, I don't mean a hermaphrodite). God is spirit. He took on human form when he was crucified.
5. God "allows" for stuff? I don't know what you mean by that. God is all powerful and in complete control of everything. We do however, have free-will and He will not impose His will on us. We are to choose His will.
6. God has got something to do with rewards? This why it is difficult to try to talk to someone who doesn't accept that God is real. Yes, God will reward those who choose to follow Him.
7. Hell figures into this becasue it is real, just as Heaven is real. But that gets further away from the topic of this post. That can all be discussed later, first comes God.

 

[Gadarene]

What are you talking about? There's been no "offensive assault on theism." This thread is directed towards atheists who of course likely have their own preconceptions about theism broadly and their own opinions on the validity of any God claim but nonetheless you're getting fairly apt replies.

I daresay there's a good deal of humility amongst the atheists on here. We're pointing out that we're not in much of a position to actually give a concise answer. Not our claim.

And you can bet your bottom dollar if atheists WERE to try and narrow the definition of god down themselves it would be the cue for the plaintive cries of 'but that's not the God that I believe in'.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

I think that to try to define something, you are in essence putting it in a box.

I think you should:
(A) heed your own advice
(B) tell the OP about this.

And I think for any mere mortal to try to define something as magnificent and all powerful as God is an exercise in futility. There is no way we could accurately define God with our feeble vocabulary.

So let me recap ...

1) God is good.
2) God is love.
3) God is holy.
4) God is a "He".
5) God "allows" for stuff.
6) God has got something to do with rewards.
7) God is magnificent
8) God is all powerful
(9) And "Hell" figures into this, too, somehow)

Anything else you wish to amend?

We, as Christians, live by faith. We don't require a definition. When you know, you just know.

Interesting. "You just know." For some reason I cannot quite believe that and I have the hunch that there is more to this story.

 

[Davian]

See how quickly the thread goes from a simple question to atheists to an offensive assault on theism.

Why not just answer the question simply?

It was an inappropriate, ill-formed question.

I mean, even atheists must agree with theists that there is such a word as "god"...right? And this word does have a personal meaning to each of them...even if it a completely negative one So why be scared to share, honestly and without having to lash out (defense mechanism).

Implying that the responders are scared, dishonest, and "lashing out" would appear to be part of your defence mechanism. I do not think that applies to myself, so please be specific in your complaints.

Why turn it back around on theists when the question wasn't meant to "box in" but to simply inquire?

I turned it back on the OP as it was clear that it was an attempt to 'box in', and not a simple inquiry.

 

[gav1nzdad]

Not familiar with this quote. Seems a bit strange that you would use a quote from someone else to refute a statement that I have made. Even so, allow me to address it.

To question God's love would not send someone to Hell. Many believers face doubt at times in their lives. But it's through prayer and study of God's word that those doubts are erased. So to question God's love might even be healthy.

 

[gav1nzdad]

I think you should:
(A) heed your own advice
(B) tell the OP about this.



So let me recap ...

1) God is good.
2) God is love.
3) God is holy.
4) God is a "He".
5) God "allows" for stuff.
6) God has got something to do with rewards.
7) God is magnificent
8) God is all powerful
(9) And "Hell" figures into this, too, somehow)

Anything else you wish to amend?




Interesting. "You just know." For some reason I cannot quite believe that and I have the hunch that there is more to this story.

You're hilarious.

Yes, I do just know. And if you think there is more to the story, then I invite you to humble yourself in prayer and ask God to show you "the rest of the story"

Until then, this is completely futile to discuss with you.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

1 thru 3 you've got right. As for 4, we refer to God as a He because that is how God is referred to in the bible. Personally, I believe that God is more complex than to be limited to be male or female (and no, I don't mean a hermaphrodite). God is spirit. He took on human form when he was crucified.
5. God "allows" for stuff? I don't know what you mean by that. God is all powerful and in complete control of everything. We do however, have free-will and He will not impose His will on us. We are to choose His will.
6. God has got something to do with rewards? This why it is difficult to try to talk to someone who doesn't accept that God is real. Yes, God will reward those who choose to follow Him.
7. Hell figures into this becasue it is real, just as Heaven is real. But that gets further away from the topic of this post. That can all be discussed later, first comes God.

1) God is good.
2) God is love.
3) God is holy.
4) God is a properly referred to as "He", although this does not mean that God has a gender.
5) God "allows" for stuff.
6) God has got something to do with rewards for those who follow "Him".
7) God is magnificent.
8a) God is all powerful and
8b) God is complete control of everything.
9) God is spirit.
10a) God has a will, but
10b) God will not impose this will on us.
11) God is complex. (Special note to self here: God is not simple!)
12) God is able to take on human form.
13) God took on human form and was crucified.

(x) And "Hell" figures into this, too, somehow
y) Heaven figures into this somehow.)

Anything else you wish to amend? Anything else I forgot to add to the list? I am just trying to list all the things that you are describing God as.

 

[gav1nzdad]

The part I highlighted in bold is white noise.

Why does a "holy" God require hell? What does that even mean? What does a God being 'holy' even have to do with being good and loving - traits that do directly contradict any plans to eternal torment people for eternity.

Why does God require hell? Ask Him.

 

[Skavau]

Why does God require hell? Ask Him.

Well, to me 'hell' is simply an immoral supernatural concept.

I'm asking those who attempt to defend it and justify it.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

You're hilarious.

Yes, I do just know. And if you think there is more to the story, then I invite you to humble yourself in prayer and ask God to show you "the rest of the story"

See? There is more to the story.

 

[gav1nzdad]

1) God is good.
2) God is love.
3) God is holy.
4) God is a properly referred to as "He", although this does not mean that God has a gender.
5) God "allows" for stuff.
6) God has got something to do with rewards for those who follow "Him".
7) God is magnificent.
8a) God is all powerful and
8b) God is complete control of everything.
9) God is spirit.
10a) God has a will, but
10b) God will not impose this will on us.
11) God is complex. (Special note to self here: God is not simple!)
12) God is able to take on human form.
13) God took on human form and was crucified.

(x) And "Hell" figures into this, too, somehow
y) Heaven figures into this somehow.)

Anything else you wish to amend? Anything else I forgot to add to the list? I am just trying to list all the things that you are describing God as.

No, you are being sarcastic. If you were being sincere and genuinely open to a discussion about how a Christian defines God, I would be willing to discuss it with you. But you're not, so I'm done.

 

[gav1nzdad]

Well, to me 'hell' is simply an immoral supernatural concept.

I'm asking those who attempt to defend it and justify it.

I have an appointment right now, but I would like to address this question, if you are seriously only inquisitive.

I will return to this in a bit.

 

[Gadarene]

No, you are being sarcastic. If you were being sincere and genuinely open to a discussion about how a Christian defines God, I would be willing to discuss it with you. But you're not, so I'm done.

I think several people here are curious as to how you can say you can't define god one minute and then proceed to define him.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

No, you are being sarcastic. If you were being sincere and genuinely open to a discussion about how a Christian defines God, I would be willing to discuss it with you. But you're not, so I'm done.

Admittedly this is all not new to me and, yes, it may look a little sarcastic.

However, I do not think that I have been unfair to you. The list looks actually quite decent. And it looks like something that theists actually believe (or at least say that they believe). Contrary to the 'debate definition' and 'debate beliefs' that you tend to get, like "God is the cause of everything, and no more, really. ...", "God is love. ..." or what have you.

 

[gav1nzdad]

I think several people here are curious as to how you can say you can't define god one minute and then proceed to define him.

Thia is right, I can't define God, as I said in one of my earlier posts, I lack the words. Of course the purpose of the thread was to define, so I gave it an attempt. Admittedly, a flawed one.

 

[Gadarene]

Thia is right, I can't define God, as I said in one of my earlier posts, I lack the words. Of course the purpose of the thread was to define, so I gave it an attempt. Admittedly, a flawed one.

Fair enough then