Atheist Universe: Not Impossible

[Wiccan_Child]

Look I love all you guys, but ya'll need to use the same reasoning in of your minds to look at consciousness(cause and effect) Which laws of nature and the laws of science and of reasoning show more than one parallel of reality, to reality! For the most part the Bible and the supernatural reveals itself in the Creator----God.

How, exactly? What about reality leads in any way to the conclusion that there is a divine Creator?

 

[allhart]

How, exactly? What about reality leads in any way to the conclusion that there is a divine Creator?

Look ask God to reveal to you His transcending thoughts, for it seems, no matter how I relay reasoning and of science in and around cause and effect. You miss it. So It is me, not you! Our limitations point to a creator!

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Look ask God to reveal to you His transcending thoughts, for it seems, no matter how I relay reasoning and of science in and around cause and effect. You miss it. So It is me, not you! Our limitations point to a creator!

How do you ask God a question? I'm not being flippant, I'm asking a serious question.

 

[allhart]

How do you ask God a question? I'm not being flippant, I'm asking a serious question.

To yourself or out loud for God is listening. Just ask Him to reveal Himself to you? Look to His people,science and His word. With real intent(whole heartily)! Seek and you shall find and be-careful what you pray for!

 

[marksman007]

sure. there are many ways of thinking, but facts and proof are not apart of faith. it is the absence of it. These words are attributed to one way of thinking and faith is attributed to another way of thinking.

Thankyou Moonlancer for enumerating your assumptions. I am aware of them as I have heard and read them numerous times here and other places.

I do not subscribe to them because I have met the God of heaven who has revealed his word and his way to me. I am content in that because it gives me forgivness of sin, abundant life and an eternity in his new kingdom. Unfortunately, atheism does not accord me the same priviledge and certainty.

The bible says that the foolishness of God is greater than the wisdom of man.(1 Corinthians 3:19). I am very happy to accept that the things I said in the last paragraph seem foolish to the atheist but to me they are wisdom.

This is emphasised in 1Co 1:21 where it says "God was wise and decided not to let the people of this world use their wisdom to learn about him. Instead, God chose to save only those who believe the foolish message we preach."

From this verse it seems that being foolish (to believe God and his word) is a decided asset.

1 Corinthians 2:14 says "Whoever does not have the Spirit cannot receive the gifts that come from God's Spirit. Such a person really does not understand them, and they seem to be nonsense, because their value can be judged only on a spiritual basis."

This verse clearly shows that spiritual matters can only be discerned spiritually. The moment you apply natural thinking to them, you immediately close the door on your understanding and all you are left with is what you think.

1 Corinthians 1;27 says "God purposely chose what the world considers nonsense in order to shame the wise, and he chose what the world considers weak in order to shame the powerful."

From this knowing everything is a real barrier to knowing God. What makes salvation so real is the fact that I don't have to do anything to receive it. It is a gift from God. The moment you say "I am clever" or I have reasoned everything out because I have applied logic" is admitting that you don't need God. That being the case he is not going to show you the riches of his grace because you have made it clear that you feel you can effect your own salvation.

I have been a christian for 56 years and the more I know the less I know. Every day is a new experience as God may show me something I have not seen before. I wake up in the morning and fall in love with him all over again.

Love is not something you can put in little boxes and say it works like this or it works like that or to a specific formula. To try and explain a love relationship, especially a spiritual one, in logical, natural thinking is the height of stupidity.

I can no more explain why I loved my wife to be more than any other person than I can explain why I like the heat and not the cold. I just did and do. No amount of logic is going to explain that. All I wanted to do was marry her and spend the rest of my life with her. In a few months we are celebrating our 40th wedding anniversary.

 

[marksman007]

Maybe it leafed through it?

You know that most scientist are out standing in their field?

And one last one

It's because it started as a grass roots movement.

Belk, you are priceless!!!!

 

[marksman007]

Now please list the books mate!

I think it is quite arrogant of you to order me around on this forum. I will post what I want to post and not post what I don't want to post. It is known as free speech.

I don't have the time to go back to my university and pour over the catalogue to identify the books I borrowed when I was a student there in the early 90s. Unlike you, I read books for interest and enjoyment, not to carry on a crusade against people that decide they are not interested in your jaundiced version of life.

If you are that desperate to know what books I read let me know and I will give you the name of the university and you can troll their library catologue.

And one more thing. I don't like being called a liar so I would appreciate it if you would be more circumspect is what you say.

 

[roflcopter101]

Allhart, may I have an answer to my post 590 on page 59?

 

[Belk]

Belk, you are priceless!!!!

 

[allhart]

Well, have you not said that everything has a cause and effect? According to your reasoning, God would also need a cause, correct? I am arguing that if God needs a cause, God's cause would need a cause, and so on and so forth for eternity. The concept of creationism would be infinite and paradoxical.

Hay buddy, the God cause isn't something that can be all known to us. Even us Christians in heaven are not going to be privy to what all God knows or in that what all makes Him God. The limitation in laws of science, physics and nature shows much, however; we see parallel reality's between mind ,science and supernatural. By using cause and effect using that law in both worlds. You can come up with a logical explanations. Are they completely known to you, no!

The mind and Supernatural, but you can't seem to bridge the gap! We can't see it, but we know somethings there!

In-like on a balcony you can't see something for the height and depth, but you can see something there, but can't make it out!

 

[MoonLancer]

For the most part the Bible and the supernatural reveals itself in the Creator----God.

sorry but this is nice sounding but really doesn't mean anything. It really dosen't address the problem that we have many religions and gods that have revealed themselves through all different kinds of culture and people.

I think what your really trying to say is that god is somehow self evident and that lets you off the hook in needing to explain his existence. The idea of god is unfalsifiable and equal in every way to all things that fall into that category.

 

[MoonLancer]

Look ask God to reveal to you His transcending thoughts, for it seems, no matter how I relay reasoning and of science in and around cause and effect. You miss it. So It is me, not you! Our limitations point to a creator!

sorry to break it to you but if i really wanted fairies to exist and asked for them to reveal themselves to me they would. Its the nature of the human condition and its ability to construct unreality and believe it.

 

[tanzanos]

There is a-lot to which is unseen that is important to you. You acknowledge them all the time, but you can't tell me where they come from! You differentiate between the seen and unseen with in yourself, but won't acknowledge the fact of intelligent designer all around you that is unseen to seen! Nothing comes from nothing!

once upon a time people believed lightning to be the spear of Zeus. Science has shown us how lightning is generated and what it is made of.
What you claim is tantamount to "mythoplasia".
Children do it all the time in order to feel secure in their ignorance of their surroundings.
Do you go to a doctor when you are sick? Why are you using the fruits of science in order to denounce science. Jesus had a phrase that fits perfectly "Hypocrites and Pharisees"

 

[roflcopter101]

Hay buddy, the God cause isn't something that can be all known to us. Even us Christians in heaven are not going to be privy to what all God knows or in that what all makes Him God. The limitation in laws of science, physics and nature shows much, however; we see parallel reality's between mind ,science and supernatural. By using cause and effect using that law in both worlds. You can come up with a logical explanations. Are they completely known to you, no!

If that was the case, the need for a God would be unnecessary. One could simply say that since the universe does not according to our perception of reality, the universe could have simply appeared from nowhere.

The mind and Supernatural, but you can't seem to bridge the gap! We can't see it, but we know somethings there!

In-like on a balcony you can't see something for the height and depth, but you can see something there, but can't make it out!

How do you know something is there?

Allhart, are you a native English speaker?

 

[allhart]

If that was the case, the need for a God would be unnecessary. One could simply say that since the universe does not according to our perception of reality, the universe could have simply appeared from nowhere.



How do you know something is there?

Allhart, are you a native English speaker?

Well we don't write like we speak. I'm going to college 10/26 for grammar, so please forgive my inadequacy!
We look at both perspectives of reality in theory with science and laws, but "you" following the facts when it come to the supernatural falls short. You pull back, why? And I don't mean the spooky kind either.
For example, Can you see ones inner strength? How far one determination will go? Not just endurance. Do you see my point?

 

[tanzanos]

Well we don't write like we speak. I'm going to college 10/26 for grammar, so please forgive my inadequacy!
We look at both perspectives of reality in theory with science and laws, but "you" following the facts when it come to the supernatural falls short. You pull back, why? And I don't mean the spooky kind either.
For example, Can you see ones inner strength? How far one determination will go? Not just endurance. Do you see my point?

Supernatural? Can you prove the existence of at least one? Anything supernatural will do! Just one will suffice! Prove one itsy bitsy little supernatural thing!

No?

Well then; the supernatural does not exist then does it?

Also one's inner strength does not come from the supernatural but from the ability of the brain to control a situation even if it means paying the ultimate price. This strength can be attributed to many variables and conditions and must be taken case by case! There is no God involved here.

Now Y'all have a nice day there

 

[allhart]

Supernatural? Can you prove the existence of at least one? Anything supernatural will do! Just one will suffice! Prove one itsy bitsy little supernatural thing!

No?

Well then; the supernatural does not exist then does it?

Also one's inner strength does not come from the supernatural but from the ability of the brain to control a situation even if it means paying the ultimate price. This strength can be attributed to many variables and conditions and must be taken case by case! There is no God involved here.

Now Y'all have a nice day there

Like i said matter, material of matter, atoms of matter can't explain itself, so where does intelligence, your mind, and consciousness come from? In using laws of nature and of the cosmos. Cause and effect pacifically, you first have to acknowledge that your mind and body are two distinct polar opposites!

 

[b&wpac4]

so where does intelligence, your mind, and consciousness come from?

No, no, no. It isn't hard to see how creatures could evolve to, eventually, gain sentience. It seems to me that the rise of verbal communication had a great deal to do with the rise of thought.

What you mean is that science alone cannot explain purpose, yet, as has been pointed out to you, science never has a goal to explain the meaning or purpose of things. That is the realm of philosophy and religion. To some people, the meaning of life just isn't all that important. To others, it is very important.

 

[allhart]

No, no, no. It isn't hard to see how creatures could evolve to, eventually, gain sentience. It seems to me that the rise of verbal communication had a great deal to do with the rise of thought.

What you mean is that science alone cannot explain purpose, yet, as has been pointed out to you, science never has a goal to explain the meaning or purpose of things. That is the realm of philosophy and religion. To some people, the meaning of life just isn't all that important. To others, it is very important.

Evolve doesn't happen, no evidence of it in mans recorded history of time or in archeology. The bridge to consciousness and matter without a supernatural intervention will never be crossed! Thanks for the other!

 

[b&wpac4]

Evolve doesn't happen, no evidence of it in mans recorded history of time or in archeology.

Why would you expect there to be evidence of evolution in archeology? You would accept it in archeology but not paleontology?

Once we get to men, we changed the environment, the environment didn't change us (basically). We build houses and make our lives easier. What force would be acting upon us to evolve physically?

You ignore the fossil record though. Why?