Atheist Universe: Not Impossible

[allhart]

Simple. I have no faith. In anything. The closest I can come is to predict future behavior based upon past performance. That's it.

And?

Should we teach alchemy alongside chemistry? Maybe a couple units of astrology while we teach astronomy? If we bring God into evolution, don't we have to bring in other religious creation myths, as well?


All over.

All of the Bible as we come to know truth is reaffirmed. We are no better off now in our discovery than in Jesus is day. The more we know the more questions we have Like saying we grow plants lol.

90% astronomers have come to know God for they have seen there is waaaaay waaaaaay to much to out there to be chance and know otherwise. And chance is one thing, but sustained is another....

 

[IzzyPop]

All of the Bible as we come to know truth is reaffirmed.

Except for the parts that are wrong.

We are no better off now in our discovery than in Jesus is day. The more we know the more questions we have Like saying we grow plants lol.

Of course the more we know, the more questions we have. But the thing is that with science, we answer those questions. Religion encourages us to ignore them or tries to tell us they already have the answer. If you have an ear infection, are you going to pray over it or take an antibiotic?

90% astronomers have come to know God for they have seen there is waaaaay waaaaaay to much to out there to be chance and know otherwise.

Nah. Without a citation I find your numbers hard to swallow, but even if you are correct in that, you are incorrect in another area. They believe otherwise, not know. Huge difference. You don't have to have faith in Mars to see it. God is another matter.

And chance is one thing, but sustained is another....

The chance of life existing on Earth is 100%. The chance of intelligent life existing on Earth is 100%. The chance of human life existing on Earth is 100%. Figuring odds of something happening once that something that has already happened is a waste of time.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

All of the Bible as we come to know truth is reaffirmed. We are no better off now in our discovery than in Jesus is day. The more we know the more questions we have Like saying we grow plants lol.

90% astronomers have come to know God for they have seen there is waaaaay waaaaaay to much to out there to be chance and know otherwise. And chance is one thing, but sustained is another....

Hardly. It's astronomers who figured out how and why celestial phenomena behave as they do, and you know what they found? That there's absolutely no evidence of divine intervention. Nothing.

And as for the "chance couldn't have done it"... honestly, whoever said it was pure chance? An apple doesn't fall to Earth by pure chance, it falls to Earth because of natural forces and energies. There's no god involved, but neither is there chance.

 

[allhart]

Except for the parts that are wrong.

Of course the more we know, the more questions we have. But the thing is that with science, we answer those questions. Religion encourages us to ignore them or tries to tell us they already have the answer. If you have an ear infection, are you going to pray over it or take an antibiotic?

Nah. Without a citation I find your numbers hard to swallow, but even if you are correct in that, you are incorrect in another area. They believe otherwise, not know. Huge difference. You don't have to have faith in Mars to see it. God is another matter.

The chance of life existing on Earth is 100%. The chance of intelligent life existing on Earth is 100%. The chance of human life existing on Earth is 100%. Figuring odds of something happening once that something that has already happened is a waste of time.

What is funny though the Bible has enlightened us thousand of years before we understood it or tells us how it is. Then we come to affirm it with technology over tiiiiiime and you chalk it up as no intelligence of Bible. lol Science can't be behind it all..... Science comes after the fact!

 

[allhart]

Hardly. It's astronomers who figured out how and why celestial phenomena behave as they do, and you know what they found? That there's absolutely no evidence of divine intervention. Nothing.

And as for the "chance couldn't have done it"... honestly, whoever said it was pure chance? An apple doesn't fall to Earth by pure chance, it falls to Earth because of natural forces and energies. There's no god involved, but neither is there chance.

And the big bang then? Cause and effect. Nothing starts from nothing that is a know law fact! (Cause and effect) And what sustains all of life? The source of energy in all molecular life........?
Our play pen the world is still to much to understand.....

 

[IzzyPop]

What is funny though the Bible has enlightened us thousand of years before we understood it or tells us how it is. Then we come to affirm it with technology over tiiiiiime and you chalk it up.

It's not funny. It's sad. But we are going pretty far afield and starting to tread into apolegetics.

While the bible may have some things to say about the human condition, it has nothing to say about how we came to be, how the universe started, or how the natural world works. Twist it however you like, God did not create the universe in seven days, rabbits do not chew their cud, nor was the world flooded as a pushiment from God.

 

[allhart]

It's not funny. It's sad. But we are going pretty far afield and starting to tread into apolegetics.

While the bible may have some things to say about the human condition, it has nothing to say about how we came to be, how the universe started, or how the natural world works. Twist it however you like, God did not create the universe in seven days, rabbits do not chew their cud, nor was the world flooded as a pushiment from God.

Science can't be behind it all..... Science comes after the fact!
Is it a science class or theory's?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

And the big bang then? Cause and effect. Nothing starts from nothing that is a know law fact! (Cause and effect)

Wrong again. Quantum mechanics throws a wrench into our naive ideas of causality.

And what sustains all of life? The source of energy in all molecular life........?

A plasma ball heated by gravitational pressure and thermonuclear fusion. You might recognise it...

Our play pen the world is still to much to understand.....

But that doesn't mean we understand nothing. We understand that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old, that all life is descended from a common ancestor, that the Earth orbits the Sun, that we're in one galaxy among trillions, that our bodies are ~70% water, etc, etc.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Science can't be behind it all..... Science comes after the fact!
Is it a science class or theory's?

Science is a method by which we try and understand the universe. It's not "behind" anything. Your statement doesn't make any sense. And since the universe exists whether or not we do, then science indeed comes "after the fact". So? It's not like that admission means there's a god.

 

[allhart]

Science is a method by which we try and understand the universe. It's not "behind" anything. Your statement doesn't make any sense. And since the universe exists whether or not we do, then science indeed comes "after the fact". So? It's not like that admission means there's a god.

Stick to the arguments not the person that holds the view. The one with the best reasoning gets to know. Your feeling or opinions doesn't make it science, nor can you say where any of this began. Cause and effect, therefore; quantity can't explain itself. That requires intellectual information, a mind. Nothing built on itself that's like saying I think for there I exist. Can you know you don't exist lol. Which come first the chicken or the egg?
Truly the intellectual mind is who you are trying to disprove......?

 

[allhart]

Wrong again. Quantum mechanics throws a wrench into our naive ideas of causality.


A plasma ball heated by gravitational pressure and thermonuclear fusion. You might recognise it...

But that doesn't mean we understand nothing. We understand that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old, that all life is descended from a common ancestor, that the Earth orbits the Sun, that we're in one galaxy among trillions, that our bodies are ~70% water, etc, etc.

Patterns mean there is information..... that means there was a mind behind it!

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Stick to the arguments not the person that holds the view. The one with the best reasoning gets to know. Your feeling or opinions doesn't make it science, nor can you say where any of this began. Cause and effect, therefore; quantity can't explain itself. That requires intellectual information, a mind. Nothing built on itself that's like saying I think for there I exist. Can you know you don't exist lol. Which come first the chicken or the egg?
Truly the intellectual mind is who you are trying to disprove......?

I don't have a clue what you're saying here. If you're insinuating that the fact the universe exists proves a god exists, then you should probably reform your statement as a logical argument.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Patterns mean there is information..... that means there was a mind behind it!

No, no it doesn't.

Information can exist without a mind to create it. Spilled paint on a floor might have a "pattern" to it, and thus "information", but a mind obviously did not create the pattern. The pattern was simply created through the laws of physics.

It does takes a mind to consider something "information". If the universe had no life anywhere, there would exist "facts" about this universe, but there would be no "information", using the usual definition of the word.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Patterns mean there is information..... that means there was a mind behind it!

Wrong again. Patterns can arise from wholly mundane means.

All these are natural patterns, but none of them arose because of some intelligence willed them into being. Genuine patterns can arise through any number of natural phenomena (sedimentation, etc), and fake patterns can be seen because our brains have evolved to seek out patterns where 'ere it can.

That's why we see faces in cars and clouds. Not because there's some giant brain in the sky, but because we see patterns where none exist.

 

[david_x]

Wrong again. Patterns can arise from wholly mundane means.

All these are natural patterns, but none of them arose because of some intelligence willed them into being. Genuine patterns can arise through any number of natural phenomena (sedimentation, etc), and fake patterns can be seen because our brains have evolved to seek out patterns where 'ere it can.

That's why we see faces in cars and clouds. Not because there's some giant brain in the sky, but because we see patterns where none exist.

I think that last one may be a little FAIL on your part. Obviously the shell was made by a creature that had some intelligence.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I think that last one may be a little FAIL on your part. Obviously the shell was made by a creature that had some intelligence.

Really? What intelligent creature used its mind to create that pattern?

Saying the nautilus intelligently created its shell is like saying blondes consciously grow their hair yellow (dye-jobs notwithstanding).

 

[david_x]

Really? What intelligent creature used its mind to create that pattern?

Saying the nautilus intelligently created its shell is like saying blondes consciously grow their hair yellow (dye-jobs notwithstanding).

I'm saying the nautilus puts each septa there as it grows, it's not an accident that they are patterned.

 

[allhart]

Wrong again. Patterns can arise from wholly mundane means.

All these are natural patterns, but none of them arose because of some intelligence willed them into being. Genuine patterns can arise through any number of natural phenomena (sedimentation, etc), and fake patterns can be seen because our brains have evolved to seek out patterns where 'ere it can.

That's why we see faces in cars and clouds. Not because there's some giant brain in the sky, but because we see patterns where none exist.

Science can't be behind it all..... Science comes after the fact! So you can't tell me without a doubt God isn't behind it ALL (prove it)! Also you haven't explained to me about where the energy of these inanimate objects molecular building blocks comes from and how it is sustained or what sustains the earth. Which is suspended in outer space nor have you explained all the dials of life on earth that sustains life (earth distance from the sun, earth axis 23.5%, ozone, ocean salt content 3.5%, gravity etc). Where if one was removed life would exists. Even in your body, cells live independently of your though and live by their own memory, but live in community of other cells!!You have nothing. Just trails of science erected from error and laws of whatever, not knowing the whys of light, motion, speed, Quantum physics, arithmetic etc,( just the does and don't of the matter) but when it comes to the purpose of life or the cause. You can only see the effect and you speculate. For you can't get your mind around the why, so you ignore the cause. Why?

What in the beginning plants and bugs co-existed. How could a tree know that a bug would eat its leaves and know to produce a chemical that would kill that particular bug ,before they existed?

If you walked up to a tree and someone left their signature carved into its trunk. Would you say it evolved

DNA is a mathematical equation of information. That lets one know eye,skin, and hair color etc On and on this goes..... You can play with the rest of your life in the science of life and ignore the cause...... Do you miss the point? You will even say that there is some sort of pattern to life, you would call it mother nature lol, but you still have missed the point and so you haven't graveled with the real substance of life......God speed, my friend before His great grace runs out.
Intelligent design!!!!!!

 

[DeathMagus]

What in the beginning plants and bugs co-existed. How could a tree know that a bug would eat its leaves and know to produce a chemical that would kill that particular bug ,before they existed?

Allhart, I strongly and amicably suggest you acquire at least a trivial understanding of how evolution works before you attempt to overthrow it, and indeed the greater institution of science in general. The level of knowledge you are displaying in the sciences is, quite honestly and without embellishment, lagging somewhere behind the typical 6th-grader's. The whole idea of "trees knowing to produce chemicals" suggests that you truly have not the slightest idea of what evolutionary theory entails, and further that your knowledge of biology itself is severely limited.

Please make an effort to at least comprehend the arguments and ideas put forth by those you disagree with - otherwise, why should anyone listen to a word you say?

 

[allhart]

Allhart, I strongly and amicably suggest you acquire at least a trivial understanding of how evolution works before you attempt to overthrow it, and indeed the greater institution of science in general. The level of knowledge you are displaying in the sciences is, quite honestly and without embellishment, lagging somewhere behind the typical 6th-grader's. The whole idea of "trees knowing to produce chemicals" suggests that you truly have not the slightest idea of what evolutionary theory entails, and further that your knowledge of biology itself is severely limited.

Please make an effort to at least comprehend the arguments and ideas put forth by those you disagree with - otherwise, why should anyone listen to a word you say?

You know what I've come to notice. When people of general acknowledgment can't socially discuss knowledge they tend to divert the conversation away from the argument to the person that holds the view. Hmmm did you just do that
Science illuminates, but things don't evolve. That was and is my point in case. It's funny how you guys can't make your case. Explain the atom or the energy in the atom and not how it works. Why it exsits and where did it come from and how does it sustain its self and energy..... The basic building blocks of life and I mean basic!