Atheist Universe: Not Impossible

allhart · Nov 19, 2009

Back to the fundamentals of Origin, meaning, Morality and destiny!
O.k. and Darwin so called theory is baseless without origin and people can't predetermine where our mind comes from without God. Following the evidence or facts we can come to the conclusion that our minds are separate from the body and differentiating between good and bad. We can say there is such a thing as a moral law and in doing so where it comes from is a transcended moral law from God's moral objective!

sandwiches · Nov 19, 2009

allhart said:
Back to the fundamentals of Origin, meaning, Morality and destiny!
O.k. and Darwin so called theory is baseless without origin and people can't predetermine where our mind comes from without God. Following the evidence or facts we can come to the conclusion that our minds are separate from the body and differentiating between good and bad. We can say there is such a thing as a moral law and in doing so where it comes from is a transcended moral law from God's moral objective!

What evidence shows that our minds are separate from our bodies?

allhart · Nov 19, 2009

sandwiches said:
What evidence shows that our minds are separate from our bodies?

Parallel the four fundamentals origin you can't move past origin before you can determine meaning! Many variables of evidence point to yours and God's supernatural being! For one can you explain color, smell and taste?

allhart · Nov 19, 2009

Also good and bad and the moral laws explains your mind, if you follow it out. Do you say there is good? Do you say there is evil? Then by differentiating between the two, there you are saying there is a moral law then you must deposit a moral law giver and where does that come from? Origin! And can you explain the reality of Evil? Your mind differentiating isn't base on material, now is it?

Belk · Nov 20, 2009

allhart said:
Parallel the four fundamentals origin you can't move past origin before you can determine meaning! Many variables of evidence point to yours and God's supernatural being! For one can you explain color, smell and taste?

If I say yes do I get a prize? Color is the variations in the wavelength of the electromagnetic spectrum from 400 to 700 nm reacting with the cones in your eye sending a signal to your brain.

Taste and smell are receptors in your tongue and nose that interact with the chemicals that make up food. Those interactions are then sent as electrical impulses to your brain.

Belk · Nov 20, 2009

allhart said:
Back to the fundamentals of Origin, meaning, Morality and destiny!
O.k. and Darwin so called theory is baseless without origin and people can't predetermine where our mind comes from without God. Following the evidence or facts we can come to the conclusion that our minds are separate from the body and differentiating between good and bad. We can say there is such a thing as a moral law and in doing so where it comes from is a transcended moral law from God's moral objective!

Yes, actually, we can explain it. Come over to Crevo and there are several evolutionary biologists that will be happy to help you understand how the mind evolved. God might have bee involved in the process, but we can explain how it happened.

Even if we could not explain it that simply means we don't know. It does not mean that it h ad to have been God. That is an argument from ignorance.

Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

sandwiches · Nov 20, 2009

allhart said:
Parallel the four fundamentals origin you can't move past origin before you can determine meaning!

What are these four fundamental origins?

allhart said:
Many variables of evidence point to yours and God's supernatural being!

Such as?

allhart said:
For one can you explain color, smell and taste?

Yes.

Color is the interpretations of signals from our cones and rods in our retina which are stimulated by light of differing frequencies and amplitude.

Smell and taste are the interpretations of signals from our chemical receptors in our nose and tongue, respectively, which are sensitive to different substances.

david_x · Nov 20, 2009

sandwiches said:
Color is the interpretations of signals from our cones and rods in our retina which are stimulated by light of differing frequencies and amplitude.

Smell and taste are the interpretations of signals from our chemical receptors in our nose and tongue, respectively, which are sensitive to different substances.

Alas, we know very little about memory...or the brain in general...

sandwiches · Nov 20, 2009

david_x said:
Alas, we know very little about memory...or the brain in general...

And that's evidence of a mind separate from body?

david_x · Nov 20, 2009

sandwiches said:
And that's evidence of a mind separate from body?

...
not really my field of expertise, but no evidence that a "mind" exists beyond our perception.

sandwiches · Nov 20, 2009

david_x said:
...
not really my field of expertise, but no evidence that a "mind" exists beyond our perception.

I agree with you. While it is possible that our minds could be a separate "thing" from our bodies, there's no evidence that suggests that, at this time.

Allhart talks about four fundamental origins but I have no idea what he's talking about, to be honest. Maybe he'll shed some more light on this, as it seems he's asserting that there is some evidence for mind/body duality.

tanzanos · Nov 20, 2009

allhart said:
Back to the fundamentals of Origin, meaning, Morality and destiny!
O.k. and Darwin so called theory is baseless without origin and people can't predetermine where our mind comes from without God. Following the evidence or facts we can come to the conclusion that our minds are separate from the body and differentiating between good and bad. We can say there is such a thing as a moral law and in doing so where it comes from is a transcended moral law from God's moral objective!

This is what is known as pseudo science!
There are mind altering drugs that can make one believe in anything. This proves that thought is an electrochemical process and has nothing to do with God. The brain is an organ and as such it has to abide by the laws of physics which in turn rule all laws of science including biology!
Prove that the mind comes from God! When I ask for proof it has to be just that and not something based on here say or something written in a book. The proof has to be falsifiable!
Otherwise what you say is nothing more than faith based on personal conclusions which have nothing to do with science or reality!

Have a nice day

DeathMagus · Nov 20, 2009

The fact that the mind is so easily altered and manipulated by chemical and physical changes to the body strongly implies that the mind arises entirely from natural, physical forces.

If there was an independent mind or "soul" we would expect to see signs of a portion of an individual that is impervious to physical or chemical changes in the body. The fact that we have not found such a portion suggests either that it does not exist, or that it doesn't manifest in any significant way.

JediMobius · Nov 21, 2009

tanzanos said:
I understand both the Bible and the Quran. This does not mean I have to believe in it too.

The bible cannot be understood without faith.

JediMobius · Nov 21, 2009

Belk said:
If I say yes do I get a prize? Color is the variations in the wavelength of the electromagnetic spectrum from 400 to 700 nm reacting with the cones in your eye sending a signal to your brain.

Taste and smell are receptors in your tongue and nose that interact with the chemicals that make up food. Those interactions are then sent as electrical impulses to your brain.

Yet sight, taste, and smell have more than just basic information (who tastes an orange and simply compiles the degree of sweetness and bitterness?). We see beauty and have preference to certain colors, tastes, or smells, none of which have a biological advantage for survival or natural selection. On the contrary, pleasant tastes have actually led to diabetes.

Axioma · Nov 21, 2009

TheLowlyTortoise said:
The bible cannot be understood without faith.

Then...what use is it? I mean, if you already HAVE faith, why do you need a bible?

david_x · Nov 21, 2009

Axioma said:
Then...what use is it? I mean, if you already HAVE faith, why do you need a bible?

If you can fly why do you need solid ground?

tanzanos · Nov 21, 2009

TheLowlyTortoise said:
The bible cannot be understood without faith.

Really? Do you always insult peoples intelligence? What if I were to challenge you to read the ORIGINAL text of the Bible, would you understand it? Not if your Greek poor! As for me, our bible is written in the very same language and it is as clear as day to me!

You do realise that ARROGANCE is a sin in Christianity. So is Vanity. You exhibit both traits and if I were you I would humble myself with a little humility!

*ΤΟ ΔΙΣ ΕΞΑΜΑΡΤΕΙΝ ΟΥΚ ΑΝΔΡΟΣ ΣΟΦΟΥ*

david_x · Nov 21, 2009

tanzanos said:
Really? Do you always insult peoples intelligence? What if I were to challenge you to read the ORIGINAL text of the Bible, would you understand it? Not if your Greek poor! As for me, our bible is written in the very same language and it is as clear as day to me!

You do realise that ARROGANCE is a sin in Christianity. So is Vanity. You exhibit both traits and if I were you I would humble myself with a little humility!

*ΤΟ ΔΙΣ ΕΞΑΜΑΡΤΕΙΝ ΟΥΚ ΑΝΔΡΟΣ ΣΟΦΟΥ*

They speak Koine Greek in Greece now...strange Wikipedia says it's actually modern Greek.

But to that end he wasn't being arrogant, and he was right as you didn't understand it. He really shouldn't be discussing why here though...pearls before atheists you know.

JediMobius · Nov 21, 2009

DeathMagus said:
The fact that the mind is so easily altered and manipulated by chemical and physical changes to the body strongly implies that the mind arises entirely from natural, physical forces.

Does the fact that my computer can easily be altered by physical or software changes imply that the contents of its hard drive arise entirely from internal processes? Of course not. The user of the computer decides what goes into the text files, or what jpegs are saved. (Not that I'm saying this is proof the mind is the same, but the logic dictates the possibility.)

If the mind is external, the brain is its conduit. If the conduit is affected, two things can happen. The information from the mind through the conduit is changed or lost, affecting the appearance of the mind. Or, the information through the conduit to the mind is changed or lost, confusing the mind or changing how the mind observes reality.

If there was an independent mind or "soul" we would expect to see signs of a portion of an individual that is impervious to physical or chemical changes in the body. The fact that we have not found such a portion suggests either that it does not exist, or that it doesn't manifest in any significant way.

How does that follow? If the mind or the soul are metaphysical, they interact with the physical world through our physical bodies. The physical signs are all we can actually see, so when the physical portion fails, what we actually see is affected. But to imply that what we see outside a person proves what is happening inside that person is foolish. Only the one affected by chemical or physical changes in the brain experiences his or her own mind.

What I can tell you is about someone I know with Alzheimer's. Her mind is still there. No matter what the physical brain has lost the ability to do, her personality and sense of humor remain unchanged. Certain pathways have deteriorated, removing the signals for certain words, but she still knows the word she wants to use (or at least that there is a word), she just can't say it. I don't get the sense that the changes caused by the disease have changed the person I know, but instead have inhibited her ability to experience the world and to express herself.

Atheist Universe: Not Impossible

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