Atheist Universe: Not Impossible

[tanzanos]

God is considerably more reliable. There are many things which could keep your car from starting, but there is nothing to keep God from existing - only denial of his very real existence.

So reliable that he could not stop the wars and genocide and calamities, and ......
Oh what's the use

 

[JediMobius]

So reliable that he could not stop the wars and genocide and calamities, and ......
Oh what's the use

Oh he could, but he has left this world to its evil. Men have made this world crap, that's not on God. He gave us the gift of free will and we abused it. In the end, the wars and calamities won't matter so much, eternal life is of much greater consequence than this short one.

 

[tanzanos]

Oh he could, but he has left this world to its evil. Men have made this world crap, that's not on God. He gave us the gift of free will and we abused it. In the end, the wars and calamities won't matter so much, eternal life is of much greater consequence than this short one.

Oh I see! Well permit me to disagree with you and to tell you that I as a parent pay more attention to my child. I allow him free will but when I see that he will do something that will hurt him I either intervene or advise him depending on how serious the threat is.

God constantly intervened with people's affairs 4000 years ago but after that he is nowhere to be seen. Do you mean to tell me that 4,000 years ago God intervened even though people had free will but does not do so now that we have the power to anihilate this planet?

Believe what you may. I choose to use reason and logic!

Now y'all have a nice day

 

[HannahBanana]

Oh he could, but he has left this world to its evil. Men have made this world crap, that's not on God. He gave us the gift of free will and we abused it. In the end, the wars and calamities won't matter so much, eternal life is of much greater consequence than this short one.

Why has he left this world to its evil, though? What point is he trying to prove by doing that? Does he just like to see us suffer, or does he just not care about us enough to save us from our suffering?

 

[tanzanos]

Oh he could, but he has left this world to its evil. Men have made this world crap, that's not on God. He gave us the gift of free will and we abused it. In the end, the wars and calamities won't matter so much, eternal life is of much greater consequence than this short one.

Do you converse with God? How on earth do you know what his decisions are and why he makes them? Do you speak for him?

This is what happens when people think they are above others and that they stand on a pedestal side by side with a deity looking down on us lowly ignorant crowd of non believers and believers of other faiths!

neocons

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Oh he could, but he has left this world to its evil. Men have made this world crap, that's not on God. He gave us the gift of free will and we abused it. In the end, the wars and calamities won't matter so much, eternal life is of much greater consequence than this short one.

Two things:

1.) Please review the definition of the word "culpability".

2.) Here's an equation to ponder -

(life without suffering + afterlife without suffering) > (life with suffering + afterlife without suffering)

 

[JediMobius]

Oh I see! Well permit me to disagree with you and to tell you that I as a parent pay more attention to my child. I allow him free will but when I see that he will do something that will hurt him I either intervene or advise him depending on how serious the threat is.

Well now this is true of fatherhood, but not everyone is a child of God. In fact, most of us aren't.

God constantly intervened with people's affairs 4000 years ago but after that he is nowhere to be seen. Do you mean to tell me that 4,000 years ago God intervened even though people had free will but does not do so now that we have the power to anihilate this planet?

God never stopped intervening in people's lives who asked him to. Once upon a time, the every single Israelite was a child of God, so he intervened. Then they began choosing (for example) the protection of the Egyptians over the protection of God, because having Gods protection meant actually obeying God.

Believe what you may. I choose to use reason and logic!

Now y'all have a nice day

Ooh, a condescending thinly-veiled insult, I've never come across one of those before!

 

[HannahBanana]

Well now this is true of fatherhood, but not everyone is a child of God. In fact, most of us aren't.

So you're saying that the Bible is wrong when it says that God created each and every person on this earth himself?

God never stopped intervening in people's lives who asked him to. Once upon a time, the every single Israelite was a child of God, so he intervened. Then they began choosing (for example) the protection of the Egyptians over the protection of God, because having Gods protection meant actually obeying God.

So basically, God lets his jealousy get in the way of actually protecting us and keeping us safe and happy. How petty and completely un-holy of him.

 

[Mahammad]

I don't know why people are very concerned about evolution/creation bla bla. I don't believe or disbelieve in devotion I just hate biology, and since I'm a Muslim I do believe this universe is created I don't know how or when I just believe.

and to the people who's trying to say God is unjust, just want to say I believe all humans are God's creation and not children, I don't believe Muslims are Gods children, if we were his children why would he punish us for our sins.

I believe this life is just a test for us, so if some people are sick, poor, and have a lot of pain it's all nothing but a test. Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) once said that most of the people of the heaven are the poor.

I don't believe God/Allah is unjust, he not only forbidden injustice upon us but also forbidden it upon himself.

 

[Mahammad]

I don't know why people are very concerned about evolution/creation bla bla. I don't believe or disbelieve in devotion I just hate biology, and since I'm a Muslim I do believe this universe is created I don't know how or when I just believe.

and to the people who's trying to say God is unjust, just want to say I believe all humans are God's creation and not children, I don't believe Muslims are Gods children, if we were his children why would he punish us for our sins.

I believe this life is just a test for us, so if some people are sick, poor, and have a lot of pain it's all nothing but a test. Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) once said that most of the people of the heaven are the poor.

I don't believe God/Allah is unjust, he not only forbidden injustice upon us but also forbidden it upon himself.

 

[JediMobius]

Two things:

1.) Please review the definition of the word "culpability".

2.) Here's an equation to ponder -

(life without suffering + afterlife without suffering) > (life with suffering + afterlife without suffering)

Where (life without suffering) = (sheltered childhood) = a, and (life with suffering) = (liberated childhood) = b, and (afterlife without suffering) = (fully realized adulthood) = x; a and x are incompatible. There's a missing concept in your equation. That afterlife without suffering is also a perfect eternity with a perfect God. God is perfectly Holy, and for any of us to share an eternal existence with God, we go through this test called life. Those who reject God fail, those who accept Christ's authority to rule over our lives and save us from death pass the tes, and receive the crown of life.

Why has he left this world to its evil, though? What point is he trying to prove by doing that? Does he just like to see us suffer, or does he just not care about us enough to save us from our suffering?

The only way to maintain an earthly life without suffering is to keep us from choosing evil. You can't learn anything, especially about yourself, if you can't make your own choices and make some mistakes. Part of choice is consequence, and the fallen nature of this world is one of those consequences. To remove the consequences of choice is to make choice arbitrary.

Eze 18:32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!
​

 

[JediMobius]

Two things:

1.) Please review the definition of the word "culpability".

2.) Here's an equation to ponder -

(life without suffering + afterlife without suffering) > (life with suffering + afterlife without suffering)

Where (life without suffering) = (sheltered childhood) = a, and (life with suffering) = (liberated childhood) = b, and (afterlife without suffering) = (fully realized adulthood) = x; a and x are incompatible. There's a missing concept in your equation. That afterlife without suffering is also a perfect eternity with a perfect God. God is perfectly Holy, and for any of us to share an eternal existence with God, we go through this test called life. Those who reject God fail, those who accept Christ's authority to rule over our lives and save us from death pass the tes, and receive the crown of life.

Why has he left this world to its evil, though? What point is he trying to prove by doing that? Does he just like to see us suffer, or does he just not care about us enough to save us from our suffering?

The only way to maintain an earthly life without suffering is to keep us from choosing evil. You can't learn anything, especially about yourself, if you can't make your own choices and make some mistakes. Part of choice is consequence, and the fallen nature of this world is one of those consequences. To remove the consequences of choice is to make choice arbitrary.

Eze 18:32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!
​

 

[JediMobius]

Two things:

1.) Please review the definition of the word "culpability".

2.) Here's an equation to ponder -

(life without suffering + afterlife without suffering) > (life with suffering + afterlife without suffering)

Where (life without suffering) = (sheltered childhood) = a, and (life with suffering) = (liberated childhood) = b, and (afterlife without suffering) = (fully realized adulthood) = x; a and x are incompatible. There's a missing concept in your equation. That afterlife without suffering is also a perfect eternity with a perfect God. God is perfectly Holy, and for any of us to share an eternal existence with God, we go through this test called life. Those who reject God fail, those who accept Christ's authority to rule over our lives and save us from death pass the tes, and receive the crown of life.

Why has he left this world to its evil, though? What point is he trying to prove by doing that? Does he just like to see us suffer, or does he just not care about us enough to save us from our suffering?

The only way to maintain an earthly life without suffering is to keep us from choosing evil. You can't learn anything, especially about yourself, if you can't make your own choices and make some mistakes. Part of choice is consequence, and the fallen nature of this world is one of those consequences. To remove the consequences of choice is to make choice arbitrary.

Eze 18:32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!
​

 

[JediMobius]

Do you converse with God? How on earth do you know what his decisions are and why he makes them? Do you speak for him?

I have conversed with God, and Christian are basically the ambassadors of Christ. It's not that I'm in on God's decision making process. I read the bible. Much of what I've said is right in the context, some of it is extrapolated from what I know of God's character.

This is what happens when people think they are above others and that they stand on a pedestal side by side with a deity looking down on us lowly ignorant crowd of non believers and believers of other faiths!

What happens exactly, we answer questions and uphold the truth? All I've done is answer to misconceptions about God. And what pedestal? This christianforums.com, you joined this site of your own volition. How am I not supposed to testify to my faith, especially when it's being misrepresented?

neocons

I would crack up at this if it weren't such a sadly misguided assumption.

 

[HannahBanana]

The only way to maintain an earthly life without suffering is to keep us from choosing evil.

Yet some of the things that the Bible deems as "evil" seem completely arbitrarily chosen. So why should we believe that those arbitrarily-chosen things are, in fact, evil? Take homosexuality, for example. There is no logical, rational reason to think that that's evil, yet God calls it an abomination. Why should us humans have to think of it as an abomination as well, when there's no good reason to do so?

You can't learn anything, especially about yourself, if you can't make your own choices and make some mistakes. Part of choice is consequence, and the fallen nature of this world is one of those consequences.

Neither I, nor anyone else on Earth right now, made the choice to eat the apple in Eden. Yet that's the only reason why this world has a fallen nature. So why should I, or anyone else on this planet, be responsible for Adam and Eve's choice to eat that apple?

Eze 18:32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

If God really didn't take pleasure in killing people, he wouldn't have killed millions of people throughout the Old Testament. Sounds to me like he's just trying to excuse his behavior by claiming that he takes no pleasure in it.

 

[JediMobius]

So you're saying that the Bible is wrong when it says that God created each and every person on this earth himself?

No. Though God may create each of us, most of us forsake God, for a father of our own choosing. I did most of my life. No one starts out as a child of God because God is not the father of sin. So basically, all we Christians are adopted.

So basically, God lets his jealousy get in the way of actually protecting us and keeping us safe and happy. How petty and completely un-holy of him.

Jealousy of what? What are you talking about?

 

[HannahBanana]

No. Though God may create each of us, most of us forsake God, for a father of our own choosing. I did most of my life. No one starts out as a child of God because God is not the father of sin. So basically, all we Christians are adopted.

Do you have any Bible verses to support your claim that Christians are God's adopted children?

Jealousy of what? What are you talking about?

Jealousy of whomever (or whatever) people are choosing to follow, rather than following God himself.

 

[JediMobius]

Do you have any Bible verses to support your claim that Christians are God's adopted children?

Eph 1:5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will--

Jealousy of whomever (or whatever) people are choosing to follow, rather than following God himself.

The only jealousy God has exhibited is jealousy of his own people; a father's jealousy. It seems like jealousy and envy have become synonymous for some reason, but jealousy in the bible pertains to what belongs to a person, while envy to what doesn't. (The 3rd meaning of jealousy on dictionary.com is the one used in the bible.) It is not petty for God to be jealous of his children, for they belong to Him and are His to protect and raise. God isn't envious of Satan for all the people that choose evil, but He laments that they have sided with death against life, and wants that they turn back to God and live.

 

[HannahBanana]

Eph 1:5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will--

Huh. Never read that verse before. Thanks.

The only jealousy God has exhibited is jealousy of his own people; a father's jealousy. It seems like jealousy and envy have become synonymous for some reason, but jealousy in the bible pertains to what belongs to a person, while envy to what doesn't. (The 3rd meaning of jealousy on dictionary.com is the one used in the bible.) It is not petty for God to be jealous of his children, for they belong to Him and are His to protect and raise. God isn't envious of Satan for all the people that choose evil, but He laments that they have sided with death against life, and wants that they turn back to God and live.

First of all, "jealousy" and "envy" are synonyms, so it makes no sense for you to say that it's okay for God to be jealous but not envious.

Second of all, isn't jealousy a sin? So are you admitting that God is sinful, since he's jealous?

Third of all, couldn't God just destroy Satan if he really wanted to? After all, he created Satan, so he should be able to destroy him, too. So why, then, does God choose not to destroy Satan?

 

[david_x]

Huh. Never read that verse before. Thanks.


First of all, "jealousy" and "envy" are synonyms, so it makes no sense for you to say that it's okay for God to be jealous but not envious.

Second of all, isn't jealousy a sin? So are you admitting that God is sinful, since he's jealous?

Third of all, couldn't God just destroy Satan if he really wanted to? After all, he created Satan, so he should be able to destroy him, too. So why, then, does God choose not to destroy Satan?

ROFL!!!
Jealousy and envy are two very different things. Everyone uses 'jealous' wrong, you can't be jealous of someone else's stuff.