Atheist Seeking Church

[whatfor]

I have a question for Christians. Suppose you lived at a time and place where most Christians were corrupt. And nearby is a community of non-Christians, let's say Buddhists, who are moral. Would you move to the non-Christian community to be around more moral people?

Before I was saved I had no reason to believe there was really a God, I was agnostic I guess.
So back then I would not have followed either.

I took 5 months of going to our church before I believed enough to commit.
My commitment is more based on experiencing God than my view of christians.

I think it is a matter of going to church for your own reasons, and if you believe as a result of Him showing himself to you then great, but do not go by the people you see there.
There are great moral christians, but they are not all like that.
It is about Him not them.

 

[KernAlan]

^ Absolutely. The fact is everyone's a sinner. All of us commit wrongdoings at one point or another, even the holiest of holy Christians. What Christianity is really about is the forgiveness of those transgressions by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross.

 

[CatholicForSure]

I already posted this to "Exploring Christianity" (which, unfortunately, I can't link to), but since there seem to be different people here than there, I hope it's okay that I report this here. My first post was:
-------------------------------------------------
I am an atheist who is disgusted with modern decadent culture. I am looking for a church to join that has good moral values. I also want this for my kids so that they can associate with decent people. I have the following criteria:

1. Must have a church in El Paso, TX where I live.
2. Must be tolerant enough to accept an atheist who only views Christ as an intelligent moral man whose advice is worth following.
3. Must strongly support monogamy and promote marriage.
4. Must have a strict dress code in church. No tattoos, body piercings, or immodest dress.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
-------------------------------------------------
and my follow-up was:
-------------------------------------------------
I thought I would give an update on my search. I have visited 2 Christian churches, Mormon and Sovereign Grace Ministries. These services were 3 hours and 2 hours for a total of 5 hours in church so far. In all that time, I haven't heard a single mention of any moral or ethical issues. The entire focus was on faith in Christ, which of course means nothing to me as an Atheist. I think I could put up with 80% faith and 20% ethics. If I remember the Gospels from reading them a long time ago, Christ did have a lot to say about moral issues, and I generally agree with Christ. Do any churches discuss this kind of thing? So I am disappointed so far. I will visit Greek Orthodox next week.
-------------------------------------------------
I am posting this here hoping for suggestions.

Click here: Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth

 

[JourneyToPeace]

I have a question for Christians. Suppose you lived at a time and place where most Christians were corrupt. And nearby is a community of non-Christians, let's say Buddhists, who are moral. Would you move to the non-Christian community to be around more moral people?

Interesting question. I thought about it for a while before answering. No, I wouldn't move to the non-Christian community to be around people that seemed more moral than a lot of the people I currently lived with. I might spend some good quality time with the 'Buddhists' (or whatever group you insert here) just for balance and a new perspective... but in the end, I believe in blooming where you're planted, mostly. If I can do something in my community to bring about positive change, if I can encourage people there to focus less on corruption... then I would generally stay there, and do what I could.

I also recognize that both communities would definitely have both morality and corruption in them. Even if mine seemed like there were a lot of issues in it, I'd do my best to keep seeing the good. And I'd understand that in the other community, where I saw a lot of good, there were also ordinary people who make ordinary mistakes -- sin, if you will.

I'm not just talking to talk. I'm being honest. As a recently reverted Catholic, I'm seeing a LOT of problems in the Church I've re-joined. I've wondered at times if staying's worth it. I think it is, though. Either it's the Church Christ began or it isn't... and because I believe it is, I'll see it to the end no matter how much humans mess it up - and of "messer uppers", I declare myself guilty.

And although there are issues in it, I see a lot of wonderful good in the Church, too. The sacraments, especially the Eucharist. It makes going worth going. When it comes down to it, I'm likely to find corrupt, fallen humans no matter which community I call home... so, I'm deciding to stick around and take up my part of the responsibility for helping try to 'clean up', if I can. But while I'm at it, I need to get myself in line and do some personal 'cleaning up' too.

 

[realtruth101]

I investigated the truth of religions when I was younger. I found no reason to believe in God and no evidence that he exists. The world makes more sense to me if I assume that there is no God, so I will stick with my beliefs.

I have a question for Christians. Suppose you lived at a time and place where most Christians were corrupt. And nearby is a community of non-Christians, let's say Buddhists, who are moral. Would you move to the non-Christian community to be around more moral people?

I think you missed the point of the last post, the Christians who are corrupt are not really Christians, the bible tells us that satan has sewed in his seed among us, so there is wheat and there are tares among the church, as for no evidence of God, can you tell me where design comes from, personally if I didn't believe in God I would have to at least come to the conclusion that some higher life form (maybe aliens) put us here, simply because its impossible for semitry, design, and order to evolve out of chaos and a big bang!....Can't imagine an explosion that has an end result of order and design.....but thats just me!

 

[negaru]

You can't really separate ethics from the bible, first of all. It pretty much goes hand in hand, the bible won't teach you anything that is morally incorrect. If you find a church that preaches the gospel more than "ethics" your children WILL learn ethics. I think a Pentecostal Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ (A.J.L.C.) would be a good pick for you if there is one in your area. united pentecostal works too. They are loving people who will accept you into their church no matter what your condition is / your beliefs. As long as it doesn't bother your wife I wouldn't see a problem with you attending a church that preaches more gospel than "ethics." Your children will most likely learn them in either location.

 

[fschmidt]

I think you missed the point of the last post, the Christians who are corrupt are not really Christians, the bible tells us that satan has sewed in his seed among us, so there is wheat and there are tares among the church, as for no evidence of God, can you tell me where design comes from, personally if I didn't believe in God I would have to at least come to the conclusion that some higher life form (maybe aliens) put us here, simply because its impossible for semitry, design, and order to evolve out of chaos and a big bang!....Can't imagine an explosion that has an end result of order and design.....but thats just me!

Doesn't Christianity basically say that people are sinners? But some sin more than others. Why isn't it possible that some group of Christians may sin more than some group of another belief?

I am quite content with the scientific explanation of nature's design, particularly evolution. I feel no need for more.

 

[fschmidt]

You can't really separate ethics from the bible, first of all.

Have you read The Analects by Confucius? There is a quite a lot of ethics in there that isn't connected to the Bible.

It pretty much goes hand in hand, the bible won't teach you anything that is morally incorrect. If you find a church that preaches the gospel more than "ethics" your children WILL learn ethics. I think a Pentecostal Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ (A.J.L.C.) would be a good pick for you if there is one in your area. united pentecostal works too. They are loving people who will accept you into their church no matter what your condition is / your beliefs. As long as it doesn't bother your wife I wouldn't see a problem with you attending a church that preaches more gospel than "ethics." Your children will most likely learn them in either location.

I'm sorry but I don't understand this. I don't understand how a church can teach ethics when it doesn't even talk about ethics.

By the way, I was very pleased with the last Greek Orthodox service that I attended. The priest made the point that ethics don't change over time and just because some ethics go out of fashion doesn't make those ethics any less valid. This is exactly the kind of message I am looking for.

 

[realtruth101]

Doesn't Christianity basically say that people are sinners? But some sin more than others. Why isn't it possible that some group of Christians may sin more than some group of another belief?

I am quite content with the scientific explanation of nature's design, particularly evolution. I feel no need for more.

Your absolutely correct, the difference is some people are there just going through the motions of what the religion dictates, (sort of just as you would be, since you really don't have a desire to make the connection with God) they have never had the real life changing encounter with God, that would cause them to literally cry in repentance, because when you have an encounter with God, you realize how completely sinful you are, when this happens and you repent of your sins,(without this act of repentance there can be no forgiveness of sin's) you are completely changed from the inside out, a new Spirit comes to live inside you, and you will never be the same again, When this happens it is the deepest euphoric feeling you could ever possibly have. There is no comparision because you know without any doubt that God knows you, and you can actually feel His love for you. After this happens sinning is never the same as it once was. You can never live in sin the way you once did, unless you decide to walk away from God and sever your conscience. Another noticable difference about true Christians is an overwelming hunger for His word, for truth and righteousness. I have studied religions myself and can honestly tell you that the one true God is the one of the bible, and all others are cheap empty counterfiets.

 

[negaru]

I don't think you understood what I said. When a church teaches about Jesus, baptizes, etc generally the populace adjusts their lifestyle to better ethics. Such as going to church, hearing the gospel preached and stopping premarital sex, disrespecting elders, and swearing. You will get the desired effect for your children. My question is do you mind your children obtaining faith or do you desire them to remain atheist?

 

[Alyosha1]

Find a Unitarian Church, although this website may disapprove of this -- Unitarianism is not (by definition) Trinatarian.

 

[paul1149]

Fschmidt, just so that you understand why most churches are the way they are: God knows that if He has the heart, He gets everything. If our hearts are His, our minds and our behavior will follow. We will want to do the things that please Him.

God gave the Jews an impossible covenant of legalism, precisely to show them that even the most well-meaning moral man could not save himself. The law is the tutor that leads men to Christ.

That is why Christ is the centrality of our message, though there certainly is room for how that works out on the ground.

In any case, good luck with your search.

 

[sedg]

Have you read The Analects by Confucius? There is a quite a lot of ethics in there that isn't connected to the Bible.

I'm sorry but I don't understand this. I don't understand how a church can teach ethics when it doesn't even talk about ethics.

By the way, I was very pleased with the last Greek Orthodox service that I attended. The priest made the point that ethics don't change over time and just because some ethics go out of fashion doesn't make those ethics any less valid. This is exactly the kind of message I am looking for.

When a person repents and accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior...the Spirit of the Living God (Holy Spirit) will indwell them. The Holy Spirit will change that person from the inside out if they submit and follow the Spirit.

We also need to renew out mind with the Word of God and follow the teachings of Jesus...love thy neighbor as yourself, etc.

Thus comes the term born-again, we are truely born again, in our spirit and become completely new creatures in Christ Jesus.

That's why God say's a person must be 'born-again' to enter Heaven and eternal life. Otherwise, Heaven would be messed up like this old world is. Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life.

BTW, I respect you alot for pointing your kids in the right direction. I also think that God is knocking on the door of your heart...just let him in and he'll let you know how very real He is.

He'll give you a joy and peace that surpasses ALL understanding.

Take care, and may God bless you and yours and show you the right way.