Atheist morality.

[Phred]

I do enjoy it when Atheist spin their heads around and stomp up and down that theirs is not a 'belief', but is instead a state of lack of belief - only to later present some kind of false premise that 'they' are united by some sort of cohesion.

Theist = belief in a deity.
Atheist = lack of belief in a deity.

Those who don't believe in a deity are, in a sense, united by their lack of belief. It's not formal, it's simply the sharing of an idea. Like you believe that Jesus is God and call all those who believe this "Christians" even though you have vast philosophical divisions with many of them.

Please, don't try and disparage others for their lack of continuity when you use phrases like "True Christians" to determine who agrees with you and who doesn't.

No, Atheist may tell themselves that they as a group use reason, but those that do are far and few in meeting.

Judge not... Oh, of course you only apply Christian teachings when convenient.

It is also a false premise that all come to correct conclusions regarding morality and since there is no common understood unity in 'lack of belief'; theirs is a state of social relativism.

As is yours. You just make claims that there's a deity inspiring your morality... which is purely your interpretation of things, it's not verifiable at all. So the atheists claim to have morality which is considered and thought out. You claim to have morality handed down by a deity who you can't show exists. Tell me, who's intellectually honest out of that pairing?

I have met some Atheists that deserve respect

A "True Christian" gives all people respect.

Atheist morality? In general, a forced pairing at best.

Christian morality? Err on the side of life yet kill thousands of innocent civilians. Shining example of hypocrisy.

.
​

 

[David Gould]

Well I gueesed that. But could you give me a basis please?

A basis for an atheist morality is objectivism. I do not follow this particular morality, though.

 

[nadroj1985]

Jesus Christ is perfectly capable of speaking for Himself and He has spoken with His Word. And NO, that Word is NOT open to interpretation. It is HIS interpretation that matters and His ALONE.

I think that you are in some confusion as to what it means to be a human, in relation to interpretation. When we read words, we don't just read them. Since we are subjects, we interpret them subjectively. We don't do this out of some failure of our being -- it is the very nature of our being to do this. We literally cannot do otherwise. As long as the Bible is written in words, anything you glean from it will come from a subjective interpretation of the text, whether it be yours or someone else's.

 

[mutantleader]

nadroj1985, I am in total agreement with you concerning interpretation of the written word.

As far as The Bible is concerned, we must consider the fact that non of it was written in English. The translation in itself is a form of interpretation (No wonder we have several versions). --edit--

 

[Electric Sceptic]

Jesus Christ is perfectly capable of speaking for Himself and He has spoken with His Word. And NO, that Word is NOT open to interpretation. It is HIS interpretation that matters and His ALONE.

Unfortunately, we don't have access to his interpretation. We only have access to our own - that's all we ever CAN have access to.

He says to acknowledge HIM and lean not on your own understanding.

Of course, we can acknowledge him, but we cannot do it without 'leaning on' our own understanding. That's all we can ever have - our own understanding.

 

[Zaac]

I think that you are in some confusion as to what it means to be a human, in relation to interpretation. When we read words, we don't just read them. Since we are subjects, we interpret them subjectively. We don't do this out of some failure of our being -- it is the very nature of our being to do this. We literally cannot do otherwise.

I think that you as a pantheist fail to realize what it means to be led by Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit that indwells. As a Christian, I die to self and flesh and lean not on my own understanding, but onthe understanding of Christ FIRST.

Now that may be dificult for someone who does not follow Christ to comprehend, but that's the way it is supposed to be with Christians. Now that in no way means that our flesh doesn't get in the way and we try to comprehend in the flesh instead of the spirit because we do also.

But the Christian is not to interpret subjectively because Christ is absolute. And if we are going to Him in all things as He commands, we will have HIS mind and the only interpretation(HIS) that we need.

As long as the Bible is written in words, anything you glean from it will come from a subjective interpretation of the text, whether it be yours or someone else's.[/

Again, you're thinking with a fleshly mind. If I as a Christian am communing with Christ and going to Him in all things, even the words you just wrote, I will say what He intends for me to say and not what my flesh would say.

 

[Zaac]

Unfortunately, we don't have access to his interpretation. We only have access to our own - that's all we ever CAN have access to.

You can have access to it if you desire to accept it and for sure Jesus Christ has offered and you have chosen to reject it. So by the hand of Christ right now, I submit to you yet another opportunity to give your life to Him and to receive His interpretation that you say that you do not have.

Of course, we can acknowledge him, but we cannot do it without 'leaning on' our own understanding. That's all we can ever have - our own understanding.

That's what the enemy wants you to believe because it keeps your mind in bondage.

The Word of God says “For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.” Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?” (1Cor.1:18-20)

There is NOTHING but truth at the Cross And you must choose whether or not you're going to live your life in obedience to the one who is looking to devour you or to the One Who desires to save you .

 

[Ledifni]

Why people, who lack the Holy Spirit as the deliverer of truth and discernment , continue to make comments about what appears to them to be contradictions of God's Word , is rather amusing.

So you've got the Holy Spirit, have you? You're privy to the true meaning of God's Word, are you? You've got discernment? You've got truth? I see.

How about Reverend Gene Robinson (the recently appointed gay Anglican bishop, in case you've forgotten)? Does he have the Holy Spirit? Is he privy to the meaning of God's word? Does he have discernment and truth?

Help us out here -- who has discernment and truth, so we can know who to go to for teaching? And how do you know?

 

[Ledifni]

Jesus Christ is perfectly capable of speaking for Himself and He has spoken with His Word. And NO, that Word is NOT open to interpretation. It is HIS interpretation that matters and His ALONE.

That so, huh? And what interpretation might that be? And how, pray tell, did you come by the revelation of Jesus Christ's interpretation of the Bible?

 

[Zaac]

So you've got the Holy Spirit, have you? You're privy to the true meaning of God's Word, are you? You've got discernment? You've got truth? I see.

How about Reverend Gene Robinson (the recently appointed gay Anglican bishop, in case you've forgotten)? Does he have the Holy Spirit? Is he privy to the meaning of God's word? Does he have discernment and truth?

Help us out here -- who has discernment and truth, so we can know who to go to for teaching? And how do you know?

Well I knew that I was bound to say something that rubbed you the wrong way.

So you want me to comment on Gene Robinson? Let me put forth the Word of God and let God speak to the grieving of the Holy Spirit in Gene Robinson's life. All charges of disobedience that were dropped by an apostate Episcopal church.

1. Robinson is charged with failing to rule his home and abandoning his
children: “A bishop then must be . . . One that ruleth well his own house,having his children in subjection with all gravity (For if a man know not howto rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)” (I Timothy 3:1, 5).

2. He is charged with adultery, for having sex with his wife and another
person: “Thou shalt not commit adultery” (Exodus 20:14).

3. The Episcopal leader is charged with sodomy, which is an abomination
to God, “And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel” (1 Kings 14:24).

4. The new bishop is charged with wrecking church member’s faith and
causing some to leave the church: “Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD” (Jeremiah 23:1).

5. Robinson is charged with abandoning his wife, disqualifying him from
the office of a bishop: “A bishop then must be . . . the husband of one wife”(I Timothy 3:2).

6. He is charged with not having a good reputation among those outside
the church: “Moreover he (a bishop) must have a good report of them which are without” (1 Tim. 3:2-7)

7. Robinson stands charged with being self-willed, putting his own
advancement ahead of the welfare of the church: “For a bishop must be blameless, not selfwilled” (Titus 1:7). (James 3:16 16 For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.)

8. The bishop is charged with abandoning the Word of God to teach the
ideas of men: “For a bishop (must be one who is) Holding fast the faithful wordas he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers” (Titus 1:7, 9)

9. He is charged with defiling the Holy house of God: “There shall be no harlot of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel. Thou shalt not bring the hire of a harlot, or the price of a dog (male prostitute), into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the LORD thy God” (Deut. 23:17-18).

10. Robinson is charged with sexually abusing himself with a man, a crime
which bars people from heaven: “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: “Neither . . . effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind . . . shall inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 6:9, 10)

Now is Robinson saved? Not for me to decide. But as a professing priest,pastor,bishop, overseer or whatever he wants to call himself, he shall be judged as a keeper of God's sheep, and will be judged for espousing a false gospel.

And let God's Word continue to speak for the one and only LIVING GOD:

1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them. 2 Timothy 3:1-5

Yes He says lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of GOD!

3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 5But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry. 2 Timothy 4:3-5

Has he not surrounded himself with those who are telling him what he wants to hear? Is he not suiting his own desires? Ten times he turned away from God's truth to suit his own desires. How many more do you want?

Does he have the Holy Spirit? He may have. But unrepentant sin in the life of Christians REMAINS a barrier to the Holy Spirit delivering truth. We can put out the Spirit's fire. Do not put out the Spirit's fire; 20do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21Test everything. Hold on to the good. 22Avoid every kind of evil. 1 Thess. 5:19-21

And the proliferation of unrepentant and unconfessed sin in the life of the Christian is the very reason the church looks just like the rest of the world.

This grieving of the Holy Spirit must cease!Ephesians 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ; 21: If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23: And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24: And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25: Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
26: Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
27: Neither give place to the devil.
28: Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
29: Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30: And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31: Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

 

[Zaac]

That so, huh? And what interpretation might that be? And how, pray tell, did you come by the revelation of Jesus Christ's interpretation of the Bible?

That be so. And ONLY by the Holy Spirit. Anybody can say that the Holy Spirit has told them something or given them revelation. But God says to test the spirits. Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to determine if they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1)

If he is telling you that he has received a truth that does not align itself with God's Word, then the spirit is NOT of the true Living God.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

So you've got the Holy Spirit, have you? You're privy to the true meaning of God's Word, are you? You've got discernment? You've got truth? I see.

How about Reverend Gene Robinson (the recently appointed gay Anglican bishop, in case you've forgotten)? Does he have the Holy Spirit? Is he privy to the meaning of God's word? Does he have discernment and truth?

No, he doesn't. He also confirms this with making hypocritical claims against another rather than addressing the issue of his own disobedience.

Excerpt:
“I don’t want to cast aspersions on their journey to God,” Robinson said of Akinola’s efforts. “We agree on everything, except this one, small piece. And to put that small piece above all else is, I believe, idolatry.”

IOW - He states: 'I don't want to make slanderous remarks, but its all I have.'
http://www.sovo.com/2004/10-15/news/national/bishop.cfm

Help us out here -- who has discernment and truth, so we can know who to go to for teaching? And how do you know?

You can't 'make' someone understand. That understanding is given by God and it is contingent on your desire and whether or not one receives Him.

Matthew 13:11-23
11He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables:
"Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand. 14In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
" 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15For this people's heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.'[a] 16But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
18"Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. 22The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful. 23But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown."

John 14:26
But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

 

[Ledifni]

[Scripture dumptruck]

That's not what I asked you, Zaac. I asked you whether Gene Robinson has the Holy Spirit, and thereby truth and discernment, and how you know. I didn't ask you to tell me what you believe, I asked you how you know whether somebody has the Holy Spirit.

Or are you trying to tell me that a person has the Holy Spirit if they accept Zaac?

 

[Ledifni]

That be so. And ONLY by the Holy Spirit. Anybody can say that the Holy Spirit has told them something or given them revelation. But God says to test the spirits. Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to determine if they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1)

If he is telling you that he has received a truth that does not align itself with God's Word, then the spirit is NOT of the true Living God.

And how do I know if the truth aligns itself with God's Word, Zaac?

 

[Ledifni]

No, he doesn't. He also confirms this with making hypocritical claims against another rather than addressing the issue of his own disobedience.

So, Gene Robinson doesn't have the Holy Spirit, because his truth doesn't align itself with CC's truth? Are you telling me that you're the Holy Spirit?

 

[Zaac]

That's not what I asked you, Zaac. I asked you whether Gene Robinson has the Holy Spirit, and thereby truth and discernment, and how you know. I didn't ask you to tell me what you believe, I asked you how you know whether somebody has the Holy Spirit.

Or are you trying to tell me that a person has the Holy Spirit if they accept Zaac?

Go back nd read because the question was answered in your Scripture dump.

 

[Zaac]

And how do I know if the truth aligns itself with God's Word, Zaac?

YOU, being the self-professed ,nee agnostic now humanist that you say, will not know.

He can say something that you think aligns itself with God's Word and that you read in God's Word and your discernment should STILL not be trusted as you lack the Holy Spirit delivering truth.

 

[heyo]

u should go with ur heart and ur head also
i am music lover that s all
http://www.realrnb.com/forum/index.php

 

[Ledifni]

Go back nd read because the question was answered in your Scripture dump.

No it wasn't. You simply told me why you think Gene Robinson is a sinful man. You didn't tell me how I can know whether the Holy Spirit is in him.

 

[Ledifni]

YOU, being the self-professed ,nee agnostic now humanist that you say, will not know.

He can say something that you think aligns itself with God's Word and that you read in God's Word and your discernment should STILL not be trusted as you lack the Holy Spirit delivering truth.

Right, so who does have the Holy Spirit? You and you alone?