Atheist here (Ask me anything)

woundedsoldier · Dec 25, 2009

Skeptic90 said:
I don't, same logic. I don't have any evidence showing me there is or there isn't a god, same way I don't have any evidence for a genie or superman.

So from the lack of evidence, I do not believe. I do not say I am certain there is no god, I just because of the overwhelming lack of evidence, I don't believe.

Thats why people say that religious people, no offence, are delusional. Same way you would say someone who believes that his dog talks and the dog is able to do advance mathematics is delusional.

How do you explain the amount of prophesy throughout Scripture that has been fullfilled?

Skeptic90 · Dec 26, 2009

woundedsoldier said:
How do you explain the amount of prophesy throughout Scripture that has been fullfilled?

Well for prophecy, I have seen many contradictions from prophecy between the scriptures and the bible. I'll give you a few examples:

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."God says that if Adam eats from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, then the day that he does so, he will die. But later Adam eats the forbidden fruit (3:6) and yet lives for another 930 years (5:5). 2:17

God promises to make Isaac's descendents as numerous as "the stars of heaven", which, of course, never happened. The Jews have always been, and will always be, a small minority.

Note: The prophecies shall all be fulfilled, D&C 1: 37-38

I have a whole list of these, unaccomplished prophecies. Now I will look into the accomplished prophecies.

The thing is that propheicies are simply educated guesses of the future. All religions have propheices. Ask any muslim, jew, hindu, or some native tribe in africa. Some will become true, some will not. Lets take one of the most historically significant one. When the gypsy lady, don't know the accurate description, told julius ceasar to beware of march eyes. There are countless of these prophecies, its only a matter of time when something hapenns will happen. Right now I could give a prediction of next year saying that there is going to be a plane crash early this year. Someother person can say there is going to be one late this year, next year, so on and so on. Its 'destined' to happen on day or the other.

I haven't looked much into actual scripture prophecy, but thank you for bring it up, I will sure do more research on this subject.

woundedsoldier · Dec 28, 2009

I hate to burst your bubble, but the prophecies you picked to deny are actually misinterpreted on your part. Just because you don't understand them doesn't mean they aren't true.

Ok, how about the evidence of creation. Have you ever seen an eclips? Have you ever thought what the odds had to be for the sun, being so many millions of miles away from the moon to fit exactly behind the moon in order for YOU to see an eclips? Just an interesting observation. "He hangeth the earth upon nothing." Job 26:7 Just too many coincidences (I hate that word) for me NOT to believe in inteligent design.

"And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: He made the stars also." Gen 1:16

nicknack28 · Dec 28, 2009

Dragons87 said:
Essentially, yes, though if I may I would like to make some modifications to the terminology and the order of process:

1. Hear the message of life-saving grace (= the message of Christianity = the calling from the Christian God) from others.
2. Prompted to reflect on the message by external stimuli (i.e. circumstances).
3. Decides to accept life-saving grace (= convert to Christianity).
4. Experience internal transformation.

As you said, this is an extremely simplified overview of how one might come to Christ. No one limits how God may appear to and inspire individuals.

I delayed responding to your post until after the holidays so it wouldn't get too lost.

We've already agreed that if someone doesn't hear this Christian message of life-saving grace from other people then they have no means of coming to know this God as Christianity does (or know any doctrine that goes with). They could come to any conclusion they'd like about anything, hence our world of religions today.

I do not mean to make assumptions but would you say then that one must hear the Christian message from others in order to be Christian? Another question, naturally, would then be do you think that one must be a Christian in order to be a person of good faith in God's eyes (make it into Heaven)?

I'm thinking down the line of whether those who don't hear the Christian message have any chance at being saved. I understand that a god could reveal himself to such people in other forms but obviously messages of Jesus, sacrifice, grace, and the like cannot be communicated via emotions alone. Someone would need to preach the Christian message to them for them to get the meat and potatoes of the Christian message.

I aim to better understand what exactly is needed for one to be saved in God's eyes and how exactly a person could come about it.

Welcome back (when you are back) and I hope you enjoyed your holidays!

Skeptic90 · Dec 28, 2009

woundedsoldier said:
I hate to burst your bubble, but the prophecies you picked to deny are actually misinterpreted on your part. Just because you don't understand them doesn't mean they aren't true.

Ok, how about the evidence of creation. Have you ever seen an eclips? Have you ever thought what the odds had to be for the sun, being so many millions of miles away from the moon to fit exactly behind the moon in order for YOU to see an eclips? Just an interesting observation. "He hangeth the earth upon nothing." Job 26:7 Just too many coincidences (I hate that word) for me NOT to believe in inteligent design.

"And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: He made the stars also." Gen 1:16

Ok, lets talk genesis:

(1:1-2:3) The Genesis 1 account conflicts with the order of events that are known to science.

In Genesis 1:1, the earth and "heaven" are created together "in the beginning," whereas according to current estimates, the earth and universe are about 4.6 and 13.7 billion years old, respectively.

In Genesis, the earth is created (1:1) before light (1:3), sun and stars (1:16); birds and whales (1:21) before reptiles and insects (1:24); and flowering plants (1:11) before any animals (1:20). The order of events known from science is in each case just the opposite.

Also he says the moon is simply a 'light', nothing more.

I don't know I see much more 'un-coincedences' than coincidences. Also just because somethings are correct, doesn't make everything correct. Astronomy back in the day was pretty advanced, just enough to have some 'similar' facts, not perfect, but just enough, to make some things as accurate they can be to the information they had, which connects to our foundations of modern science. I say they are more likely to be 'deducted coincidences'.

I am simply trying to give a logical explanation to the questions, instead of just deducting a supernatural answer.

woundedsoldier · Dec 28, 2009

Ok, lets talk genesis:

(1:1-2:3) The Genesis 1 account conflicts with the order of events that are known to science.

Based on what? You choose to believe scientists who say we've been here billions of years, but did you know there are many scientists--creation scientists--who oppose carbon dating methods? The thing is, they are shunned or bullied into keeping their views out of mainstream science. Have you ever seen Ben Stein's "Expelled" If you refuse to look at ALL the evidence for Christianity, God, and the Bible you will have a biased view on the whole matter. Also, you will have a religion called "science."

Also he says the moon is simply a 'light', nothing more.

You think it's made of cheese?

You have said there are too many "emotional" responses as to the proof of Christianity. This may surprise you. I don't care what aspect of Christianity you look at, in my opinion, we live in a post-Christian society today. I wonder. When you think of the word "Christian" what do you even think of any more? Religion is not Christianity. Believing in Jesus and only Jesus is Christianity. I'm afraid you don't have a clear picture.

"But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world (that old serpent the devil) hath blinded THE MINDS of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." II Cor 4:3,4

How old are you? It looks like you're 19? I am sad that you are so hardened against the truth this early in your life.

Dragons87 · Dec 28, 2009

nicknack28 said:
I delayed responding to your post until after the holidays so it wouldn't get too lost.

You mean your holidays are over? My ain't!

I hope you had a good time.

nicknack28 said:
We've already agreed that if someone doesn't hear this Christian message of life-saving grace from other people then they have no means of coming to know this God as Christianity does (or know any doctrine that goes with). They could come to any conclusion they'd like about anything, hence our world of religions today.

Yes, except that I stress: this is true as a general case--there are individual exceptions, but we need not go there.

nicknack28 said:
I do not mean to make assumptions but would you say then that one must hear the Christian message from others in order to be Christian? Another question, naturally, would then be do you think that one must be a Christian in order to be a person of good faith in God's eyes (make it into Heaven)?

For your first question, one must obviously hear the Christian message to become Christian. Paul says it very clearly, and Jesus implies that as well.

For your second question, it gets into more difficult territory. See below.

nicknack28 said:
I'm thinking down the line of whether those who don't hear the Christian message have any chance at being saved. I understand that a god could reveal himself to such people in other forms but obviously messages of Jesus, sacrifice, grace, and the like cannot be communicated via emotions alone. Someone would need to preach the Christian message to them for them to get the meat and potatoes of the Christian message.

I aim to better understand what exactly is needed for one to be saved in God's eyes and how exactly a person could come about it.

This question begs a huge answer! I will not do it justice, and can only do my best.

There are so many prerequesites to your question! Some questions that must be asked even before asking "Who will be saved?" are: "What is salvation?", "Who needs to be saved?" and "Who can be saved?"

I will respond to each of those questions first.

What is salvation in Christian terms?
In the beginning, God created humans to have a relationship with them. Humans lost that relationship when they decided to do things their own way. They (we) have gotten it very wrong, and hence be on the wrong side of God, the punishment side. Redemption, or salvation, is not about staving off punishment (which is a passive way of viewing salvation), but rebuilding that original, fruitful relationship with God (an active way of looking at it).

The Bible says as much. Out of many verses I pick this one to illustrate this point:

"[The Lord] is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." -- 2 John 3:9

If salvation means restoring a relationship with God, and a relationship can either grow or die, it can mean that someone's "salvation" waxes and wanes throughout their lifetime. Salvation isn't just about a seat in heaven, it's about a whole new life here and now. If someone's new life cannot be demonstrated on this earth, it will not be demonstrated in heaven.

Who needs salvation?
Everyone, because

"all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" -- Romans 3:23

Who can be saved?
Anyone.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." -- John 3:16

So what does it take to be saved?
The Bible is full of verses that talk about how people get saved, and it is this myriad of verses that leads to different interpretations of whether someone would get saved. These verses included, but are not limited to:

"I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit." -- John 3:5

"I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." -- Mark 10:15

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." -- Ephesians 2:8-9

"You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone." -- James 2:24

All of these verses point to something about how we are saved, but none of them standing alone gives the full picture. Salvation is a pretty hard thing to get! You have to use force to get in! Jesus says as much:

"From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it." -- Matthew 11:12

What if someone's never heard of the Gospel?
For those who have heard the Good News of Christ, it is up to them to decide whether they accept or reject it. Those who do not accept it reject it--there is no third way. Personally, I would count you as one who has heard the Good News of Christ but have so far rejected it by not accepting it. This is not to judge you, sir, but simply to put things in a very clear perspective so that you will have no excuses but to face the matter honestly!

But for those who have never heard the Good News of Christ, I hope that this passage from Romans can offer some guidance:

"There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.

All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. ... (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)" -- Romans 2:9-15

I stress again, salvation isn't just about getting a seat in heaven, but having a completely new life on earth.

Finally, I quote Jesus again:

'"How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Those who heard this asked, "Who then can be saved?"

Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God."' -- Luke 18:24-27

With God, everything is possible.

nicknack28 said:
Welcome back (when you are back) and I hope you enjoyed your holidays!

Thank you. As I said, STILL ENJOYING THEM!

I don't think that was a very good answer. But perhaps if you pick out some points to further the discussion I could respond with more detail and clarity.

Dragons87 · Dec 28, 2009

woundedsoldier said:
How old are you? It looks like you're 19? I am sad that you are so hardened against the truth this early in your life.

Madam, we (Christians and non-Christians alike) are all merely seeking.

CoderHead · Dec 28, 2009

woundedsoldier said:
Also he says the moon is simply a 'light', nothing more.

You think it's made of cheese?

You think it's a light?

nicknack28 · Dec 28, 2009

I'm still celebrating here and there too with New Year's coming 'round the corner. It's all slowed down a bit though.

I believe my questions must have seemed larger than I intended but I appreciate your full response. I was interested in your final points about salvation and the Gospel for the rest of your post (the first two-thirds or so) I'm already very familiar with. I do appreciate, however, your stress of active faith over passive faith.

Dragons87 said:
But for those who have never heard the Good News of Christ, I hope that this passage from Romans can offer some guidance:

"There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.

All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. ... (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)" -- Romans 2:9-15

This is what I'm picking at mainly. Those who do good will receive "glory, honor and peace," whether they are a Jew, a Gentile, etc. . . But will there be salvation for these people?

I do not see the connection between these passages and my question (respectfully). I'll ask more directly: how can someone live a changed Christian life (have a relationship with God while having the knowledge of Jesus, his sacrifice, and God's grace, etc.) without having heard the Gospel?

Dragons87 said:
Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God."' -- Luke 18:24-27

With God, everything is possible.

I do not mean to sound rude but this response very often strikes non-believers as a cop-out answer. It is similar to the "Goddidit" answer -- the automatic response "God did it!" if someone doesn't know how or why something happened. I'm not sure what this passage is referring to in the context of our discussion but I just wanted to raise how such a statement might be received.

Just on a friendly note I'd like to add that I find it easier to understand your points if you explain them personally instead of utilizing scripture to communicate your views. I respect that on a Christian site many will find it necessary to provide the source material of their beliefs but it would be preferable to hear your views in your own words. I am more interested in what others believe than in what the Bible supports so please do not feel required to supply quotes to support your position. If you still prefer to provide quotes then please do but restating your views in your own words would also be very well received.

I apologize for I do not know of a polite way to say "Please don't quote scripture to me." I know many feel the same way so it is more a general concern than a personal one. Thanks again for your response though and feel free to speak freely without reference.

brinny · Dec 28, 2009

when did i transition from being non-human to human?

CoderHead · Dec 28, 2009

brinny said:
when did i transition from being non-human to human?

You didn't. You've always been human.

...unless you're a bot. Are you a bot?

brinny · Dec 28, 2009

Originally Posted by brinny
when did i transition from being non-human to human?

CoderHead said:
You didn't. You've always been human.

...unless you're a bot. Are you a bot?

LOL you are delightful even if i disagree with you on some issues, amigo

nicknack28 · Dec 28, 2009

Nevermind, I misunderstood your question. I had written something unrelated.

Dragons87 · Dec 28, 2009

nicknack28 said:
This is what I'm picking at mainly. Those who do good will receive "glory, honor and peace," whether they are a Jew, a Gentile, etc. . . But will there be salvation for these people?

I do not see the connection between these passages and my question (respectfully). I'll ask more directly: how can someone live a changed Christian life (have a relationship with God while having the knowledge of Jesus, his sacrifice, and God's grace, etc.) without having heard the Gospel?

One cannot.

nicknack28 said:
I do not mean to sound rude but this response very often strikes non-believers as a cop-out answer. It is similar to the "Goddidit" answer -- the automatic response "God did it!" if someone doesn't know how or why something happened. I'm not sure what this passage is referring to in the context of our discussion but I just wanted to raise how such a statement might be received.

I understand your sentiment, but I assure you that it's not a lazy cop-out, but first, an admission of limitation: "we don't know", and secondly, a statement of faith.

First, what I mean is judgment is ultimately up to God, who is sovereign. I am to be judged as much as everyone else, so what kind of right do I have to pronounce judgment on any other person? That's what I'm getting at.

In discussing whether someone else is to be saved, I apologise for quoting the Bible again, but it has to be done. See explanation below...

There is an exchange between Peter and Jesus. Jesus has just prophesised Peter's future.

'Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them. ... When Peter saw him, he asked, "Lord, what about him?"

Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me."' -- John 21:20-22

Jesus essentially tells Peter to quit worrying about John (the beloved disciple) and worry about himself. That is my conclusion as well. I simply am unable to proclaim whether anyone else is saved or not, and my opinion, if I do make one, will be inaccurate and misleading. So I'd rather not answer.

Secondly, the verse is supposed to be reassuring to a believer: what cannot be done by them can be done by God.

So even if the gut feeling of a non-believer is, "oh, it's a cop-out", to believers it is both an admission of limitation and a statement of faith.

nicknack28 said:
Just on a friendly note I'd like to add that I find it easier to understand your points if you explain them personally instead of utilizing scripture to communicate your views. I respect that on a Christian site many will find it necessary to provide the source material of their beliefs but it would be preferable to hear your views in your own words. I am more interested in what others believe than in what the Bible supports so please do not feel required to supply quotes to support your position. If you still prefer to provide quotes then please do but restating your views in your own words would also be very well received.

I understand your sentiment, sir, and I apologise. Please allow me to explain. I must continue to use the Bible, and I am firm on that.

First, we are talking about Christianity and the Bible is the most clear expression of what Christianity is about, it must be used to explain matters of the faith.

Secondly, pride is a particular problem of mine, and I would hate it if my pride twisted the way Scripture is presented to you by mixing my opinions in with what was originally said.

Thirdly and finally, I stress again that this part of the exchange must be impersonal because we are talking about judgment of others, something I have no say over.

I cannot say whether people who have never heard the Gospel can be saved--I am simply unable to answer this question of yours. I can only deal with this question academically, hence impersonally.

On the other hand, though, I can say firmly that whoever has heard the Gospel and rejected it will not be saved. That much is clear.

nicknack28 said:
I apologize for I do not know of a polite way to say "Please don't quote scripture to me." I know many feel the same way so it is more a general concern than a personal one. Thanks again for your response though and feel free to speak freely without reference.

If we move on to a different topic in which I have remit to respond personally with some sort of certainty, I promise I will respond personally. It's just this topic on the judgment of others that I cannot.

Skeptic90 · Dec 28, 2009

woundedsoldier said:
Ok, lets talk genesis:

(1:1-2:3) The Genesis 1 account conflicts with the order of events that are known to science.

Based on what? You choose to believe scientists who say we've been here billions of years, but did you know there are many scientists--creation scientists--who oppose carbon dating methods? The thing is, they are shunned or bullied into keeping their views out of mainstream science. Have you ever seen Ben Stein's "Expelled" If you refuse to look at ALL the evidence for Christianity, God, and the Bible you will have a biased view on the whole matter. Also, you will have a religion called "science."

Also he says the moon is simply a 'light', nothing more.

You think it's made of cheese?

You have said there are too many "emotional" responses as to the proof of Christianity. This may surprise you. I don't care what aspect of Christianity you look at, in my opinion, we live in a post-Christian society today. I wonder. When you think of the word "Christian" what do you even think of any more? Religion is not Christianity. Believing in Jesus and only Jesus is Christianity. I'm afraid you don't have a clear picture.

"But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world (that old serpent the devil) hath blinded THE MINDS of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." II Cor 4:3,4

How old are you? It looks like you're 19? I am sad that you are so hardened against the truth this early in your life.

Yes, I am simply 19. Well truth, like I said before, its only relative. All I am saying is that we don't know for sure. No one has the true truth, our truths are created by our experiences and beliefs. So to say you have the 'truth', I am completely sure, to a certain degree, that you don't know. One of the famous quotes on quantum mechanics is If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don't understand quantum mechanics".

Lets take an example of a box, I ask what is inside the box? Then you will say a bunny, and then you get millions to agree that its a bunny, another person says its a dragon, the next a phone. In reality, no one knows for sure what its inside the box. So you to say that you know, I say you don't know.

So what do I need to know to accept a certain idea of what is inside the box, well hard evidence. This is the diffrence between us atheists, agnostics, and non-believers, and the rest of the worlds believers.

It is only natural to give an explanation, it gives the person a comfort and security that they have the answer. Well for us, we are just fine without knowing, although our own curiosity still wants to find out what really is inside that box. So me must investigate. Skepticism.

So from a result from skepticism, I don't believe. How I ask, am I wrong to doubt, and not know?

"You think it's made of cheese?"

No I don't. The crust of the Moon is composed mostly of oxygen, silicon, magnesium, iron, calcium, and aluminum. There are also trace elements like titanium, uranium, thorium, potassium and hydrogen. (I love astronomy=))
All I was saying is that the bible says its just a light, like the stars. A light to illuminate the earth for humans, a gift from god.
The point I was making is that the science in the bible is man made, not god made, which explains the level of knowledge they had at that time. So its more probable that humans, heck even aliens, than a god to say that.

Yes, I know what is christianity, just the belief that there was a man back 2,000 years ago that saved all humans from the original sin, and he is god's only son.

I do not know for sure that he was a real man, lets say he was, I don't think he was the son of a supernatural deity. If he is real, I say he is nothing more than a cult leader with a mere 12 followers, preaching that he is the son of god, and did good things to people, just like anyother cult leader today, which I think there are 22 now that claim just that.

What do I think its more probable? I think he is just a ripoff version of horus, the Egyptian jesus. The similarities are shockingly familiar, along with other past jesus's from other religions.

Also, you may take a look at the earliest christian bible we have the codex sinaiticus. It has no ressurection or crusifiction on this 'first' edition of the bible. Theres a lot more stuff that was taken away and added. You should really compare the bible and the manuscripts.

Oh yes, the usual fear tactic, that most religions have to prevent people from doubting. This is what I used to believe, if I doubted, it was because the devil was trying to push me away from god. The usual good vs evil. Same way some news networks here try to push as well. A belief that either you are with us, or them, and if you are with them, you are wrong. What better way to keep a society from doubting. This is one of the main thing that I dislike. Religion stopping the spread of doubt, and therefore, progress. What better way to control a society.

So I am not hardened against the truth, I am actually seeking it. It is only those who know that they say that contain it, who are hardened against it.

98cwitr · Dec 28, 2009

Skeptic90 said:
Then at one segment, there was how religion started. That got me thinking. I asked, what if religion is just a human made idea? So then I started reading more on religions and did as I did before with politics, look at both sides and see which one make more logical sense. Then I asked, could god be human made too?

Surprised it took you that long...I was thinking/asking those same exact things at 5 years old. I'm on the opposite spectrum as the OP, I was atheist for all of my life until a year ago...things changed, read the link in my sig. Your parents know your position on the matter now?

Skeptic90 · Dec 29, 2009

98cwitr said:
Surprised it took you that long...I was thinking/asking those same exact things at 5 years old. I'm on the opposite spectrum as the OP, I was atheist for all of my life until a year ago...things changed, read the link in my sig. Your parents know your position on the matter now?

Well no, I don't even now if I could tell them. As far thy know, I am still religious as I once was. Good thing I am in college, and just back home for the holiday breaks. What they don't know is not only I am an atheist, but the founder and leader of my universities secular club, which is quickly becoming one of the largest, and influential in the san diego area.

I have prepared a letter for them to read explaining everything, and my feelings, but can't put myself to go do it. I do not want debate with them, or have my whole family look down upon me and my parents. I know one day they will find out. Until that day comes, I will pretend for them.

Dragons87 · Dec 29, 2009

Skeptic90 said:
Well no, I don't even now if I could tell them. As far thy know, I am still religious as I once was. Good thing I am in college, and just back home for the holiday breaks. What they don't know is not only I am an atheist, but the founder and leader of my universities secular club, which is quickly becoming one of the largest, and influential in the san diego area.

I have prepared a letter for them to read explaining everything, and my feelings, but can't put myself to go do it. I do not want debate with them, or have my whole family look down upon me and my parents. I know one day they will find out. Until that day comes, I will pretend for them.

Please forgive me for being bold, but judging solely by your posts (which probably makes my judgment unfair), you're not someone who minces words when it comes to proclaiming your version of the truth. What's stopping you now?

CoderHead · Dec 29, 2009

98cwitr said:
I'm on the opposite spectrum as the OP, I was atheist for all of my life until a year ago...things changed, read the link in my sig.

I was pretty much in the same boat as the OP. It took me a really long time to start questioning these things. I read your conversion story and I'm a little confused. You speak about seeing coincidences and eventually chalking it up to fate, but then you make a giant leap from fate to an unseen person controlling things in your life. For someone who began their skepticism very early in their life, that seems like a really big stretch. Forgive me if I don't understand what you've actually said, but that's how I read it. I can't identify with it because I don't believe in fate and I don't believe things happen for a reason. I'm more inclined to view life as chaos...with boundaries.

Dragons87 said:
Please forgive me for being bold, but judging solely by your posts (which probably makes my judgment unfair), you're not someone who minces words when it comes to proclaiming your version of the truth. What's stopping you now?

I know from my own experience that it's more difficult to say what's on your mind when you're dealing with your parents and family members. I've already gone the route of letting my parents know my stance on religion and it didn't end well. Luckily, my relationship with my parents has always been strong enough to withstand a disagreement like that and as long as we're not talking about religion, we can still happily spend time together. It was just that initial "bump" that caused some heartache. Now my parents tell me they're praying for me, I tell them thanks, and that's the end of it. But not everybody has it so easy.

Atheist here (Ask me anything)

Newbie

Epic Member

Newbie

Browncoat

Epic Member

Newbie

The regal Oriental kind; not evil princess-napper

The regal Oriental kind; not evil princess-napper

Knee Dragger

Browncoat

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places

Knee Dragger

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places

Browncoat

The regal Oriental kind; not evil princess-napper

Epic Member

Lord forgive me

Epic Member

The regal Oriental kind; not evil princess-napper

Knee Dragger

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency