Atheism

[bhsmte]

That was my beloved list, which is still available and still growing. I still keep track of what Christians on CF say about us. I imagine I read nearly everything they post about atheists. Not atheism itself, but atheists the people.

I understand that there are atheists out there who are just as ignorant of atheism as Christians typically are, but that's one of the reasons I limited my quotes to CF. You all have quite the resource here with atheists who are typically well educated, well-spoken, and have spent a good time understanding their beliefs and others'.

I also limited myself to CF because it is still about the most liberal Christian message board around. Nobody can claim that I went to the most conservative boards. I took from the most balanced one available. I use the most neutral search terms I can, thus I came across this thread.

I use the sheer number of actual quotes from Christians, exclusively from the most representative source I can find to speak for itself. I do not need the equivelant of "the atheist professor" chain mail, or the movie God is not Dead. I don't need to use propaganda.

Despite that, the ignorant comments are a constant here. I found this thread and appreciate your approach, but it is far too little, far too late. Compared to this thread which portrays atheists in a more neutral, and fairer light (the first one started by a theist in years), there are five new threads started in the Christians Only section with a decidedly negative tone in the past week.

You, your approach, and your thread are appreciated, but pretty much a minority voice in modern Christianity. An anamoly, and hardly representative of Christianity on the whole. Don't you agree?

Where is that list of yours?

 

[seashale76]

You, your approach, and your thread are appreciated, but pretty much a minority voice in modern Christianity. An anamoly, and hardly representative of Christianity on the whole. Don't you agree?

On-line? Sure. However, can we label all modern Christians- most of whom don't post in on-line forums dedicated to religious topics, and among those who do, most aren't posting anything at all be it negative, positive, or neutral about atheism- with the atheist bashing brush? I don't think I can agree with that. The fact that I frequently post in an on-line religious forum is seen as odd among my family and friends (be they religious or non-religious).

 

[MehGuy]

Yikes! I hope you're not suicidal now. Also, don't sell yourself short either. The thing about learning is we can always improve.

(yeah, quoting a rep.. hope you don't mind lol..)

No, I'm not suicidal now. Luckily I was able to escape all that religious baggage and intense fear.

But yeah, the last few years of my faith were very strange and insane. I really can't tell you what would happen if I stayed with the faith. I did manage to get a lot of disturbing and interesting observations about religion from it though.

I even went through a brief anti-theist phase when I first began to call myself an atheist. Fortunately I grew out of that, lol. I've since learned that religion and faith can be a positive thing for many people and I don't really have the heart to meddle against that for the most part..

Yeah, we can always improve. I've slowly learned to appreciate learning over the years.

But yeah, just goes to show that atheists come in all varieties. Some of us still retain a lot of the horrible baggage and traits from our religious upbringing. Some of which can take years to shake off (if ever..)

 

[JGG]

On-line? Sure. However, can we label all modern Christians- most of whom don't post in on-line forums dedicated to religious topics, and among those who do, most aren't posting anything at all be it negative, positive, or neutral about atheism- with the atheist bashing brush? I don't think I can agree with that. The fact that I frequently post in an on-line religious forum is seen as odd among my family and friends (be they religious or non-religious).

Okay, but are you suggesting that only certain types of Christians are represented online? Or are certain types over-represented or under-represented? Are we to assume that those who do not go online have a different attitude toward atheists than those who do? Or those who are verbal about their attitudes have different attitudes from their peers who are online but stay silent?

I'm just suggesting that CF serves as a pretty representative sample of the general population. Do you have reason to believe otherwise? Is there a better place to get a representative sample?

 

[seashale76]

Okay, but are you suggesting that only certain types of Christians are represented online? Or are certain types over-represented or under-represented? Are we to assume that those who do not go online have a different attitude toward atheists than those who do? Or those who are verbal about their attitudes have different attitudes from their peers who are online but stay silent?

I'm just suggesting that CF serves as a pretty representative sample of the general population. Do you have reason to believe otherwise? Is there a better place to get a representative sample?

I don't think it is really possible for you to be able to successfully answer these questions. All you have is speculation. I don't believe any internet forum is ever going to be a true representative sample of the general population. You have absolutely no way to know for sure. The internet is a false reality because you just don't know who or what you're dealing with really. Trolls abound. Some people have multiple accounts and pull off pretending lots of things on the internet. Years ago, I did the same. While I'm fairly confident that most long-time posters around here are who they claim to be, I've come across way too many posters who have me doubting all of their claims.

 

[light upon light]

So atheists are people who at this particular time in their lives think that the atheist reality is the most likely.
Christians are people who at this particular time in their lives think that the Christian reality is the most likely.
Atheism is as much a belief as Christianity IMO.

Literally, no, but in most cases yes.

Almost all atheists believe in physicalism and materialism and reduction of mind / consciousness to brains.

I will very rarely meet an atheist who does not hold that constellation of beliefs, but it is very uncommon.

(Nobody ever agrees with me on this, but I keep trying. )

I (to an extent!) agree with you.

 

[Supreme]

Atheism is a lack of belief, and most atheists wouldn't pretend it's anything more. However, I do find that some atheists are *very* jealous of some of the positive aspects of organized religion, eg brotherhood in congregations, social gatherings and have responded with setting out their own 'atheist' churches and the like. Of course, it's just as ridiculous as setting up a society where nobody rides a bicycle, but each to their own.

I know quite a few atheists in real life, and they're all lovely people who have no problem with my faith, although we do discuss it every now and then. My atheist friend today laughed at how I use the phrase 'with God's help' a lot.

 

[JGG]

I don't think it is really possible for you to be able to successfully answer these questions. All you have is speculation. I don't believe any internet forum is ever going to be a true representative sample of the general population. You have absolutely no way to know for sure. The internet is a false reality because you just don't know who or what you're dealing with really. Trolls abound. Some people have multiple accounts and pull off pretending lots of things on the internet. Years ago, I did the same. While I'm fairly confident that most long-time posters around here are who they claim to be, I've come across way too many posters who have me doubting all of their claims.

Yes there may be trolls, and people with multiple accounts, but the same question emerges: Is there some reason that one side of this issue would troll and have multi-accounts, and not the other? I don't see any reason to assume that this site does not have a representative sample of Christianity in general.

Why do you assume this forum is not representative?

Still, let's compare what we see on here to what we see in real life:

How about the number of anti-atheist books written by Christians compared to neutral or pro-atheist books available on Amazon? I have found 1, and it was self published, and only available digitally.

What about the movie God is not Dead, which by mainstream press was basically considered a hate letter to atheists, and yet fairly well-received by most Christian reviews. Frankly, that this story was given a budget over other scripts says a lot about what Christians want to see.

There are websites that collect sermons from churches across America, with a search function that works like on here, and well, I'm sure you can guess the result.

And then there are polls and studies that tell us the same thing. It is pointless endeavor for atheists to run for public office, as an overwhelming number of Christians will not vote for them, with the explanation that their values are too different. Which is ridiculous. The famous study out of Minnesota which tells us that the majority of Christians believe atheists to be as trustworthy as rapists.

And then there's what is actually taught:

I would say that what we see on this website corresponds pretty well with what we see in reality.

 

[Zoness]

Those billboards are cringeworthy but not at all surprising. It's pretty classic America, even.

 

[bhsmte]

Those billboards are cringeworthy but not at all surprising. It's pretty classic America, even.

The sad part is, it's all driven by fear.

 

[smaneck]

Those billboards are cringeworthy but not at all surprising. It's pretty classic America, even.

But they grow out of the lunatic fringe of American culture, not its mainstream.

 

[jmcorn]

So what do athiests believe started the human race? Evolution?

How was everything else created?

There are many on this forum and I still do not know what they believe. Some believe in Science.

 

[Zoness]

But they grow out of the lunatic fringe of American culture, not its mainstream.

Yeah, it seems mostly focused in the South and pockets in the Midwest. In most of the Midwest you'd never see something quite like these as people tend towards conservativism but religion is not worn on the sleeve to the same degree as it is further south.

 

[jmcorn]

Yeah, it seems mostly focused in the South and pockets in the Midwest. In most of the Midwest you'd never see something quite like these as people tend towards conservativism but religion is not worn on the sleeve to the same degree as it is further south.

I am from South Carolina and I have never seen one of these billboards or heard anything about any of them.

 

[Zoness]

I am from South Carolina and I have never seen one of these billboards or heard anything about any of them.

I've seen them in Missouri, Alabama and Georgia and I am from Illinois.

Different organizations, same general messages. Though some of the ones I saw were more anti-Muslim or anti-Pagan in nature. Luckily, those were just as few and far between as the anti-Atheist ones.

 

[smaneck]

I've seen them in Missouri, Alabama and Georgia and I am from Illinois.

Different organizations, same general messages. Though some of the ones I saw were more anti-Muslim or anti-Pagan in nature. Luckily, those were just as few and far between as the anti-Atheist ones.

But the question really is to what extent does this represent mainstream Christianity in even these areas, or just the beliefs of those who put up billboards? I find billboards in general rather cheesy.

 

[seashale76]

But they grow out of the lunatic fringe of American culture, not its mainstream.

Yes- and anyone can put money toward a billboard ad.

ETA- if you look at the fact that Christians are around 2.18 billion people in the world, out of 6.9 billion (according to Pew anyway)- and that certain fringe groups have their origin and biggest numbers in America- then they can seem like the majority to you if you live around them. Globally, they are still fringe. If around 78% of the population in the US identifies as Christian and 26% of those come from the groups that could likely be easily identified as fringe (with everything that entails), then those who live in the specific geographical areas those groups tend to inhabit will get the impression those groups are squeaky wheels. In reality, they are not a majority anywhere.

 

[jmcorn]

The only one I have seen was in Time Square and it was anti Christian.

 

[JGG]

Yes- and anyone can put money toward a billboard ad.

ETA- if you look at the fact that Christians are around 2.18 billion people in the world, out of 6.9 billion (according to Pew anyway)- and that certain fringe groups have their origin and biggest numbers in America- then they can seem like the majority to you if you live around them. Globally, they are still fringe. If around 78% of the population in the US identifies as Christian and 26% of those come from the groups that could likely be easily identified as fringe (with everything that entails), then those who live in the specific geographical areas those groups tend to inhabit will get the impression those groups are squeaky wheels. In reality, they are not a majority anywhere.

Let's use your 78% and 26%. What makes you think that a significant number of that 52% feel differently from the fringe. I see no evidence of that. Do you?

 

[smaneck]

Let's use your 78% and 26%. What makes you think that a significant number of that 52% feel differently from the fringe. I see no evidence of that. Do you?

I keep putting up this video based on a Gallup Poll entitled "What One Billion Muslims Really Believe." Perhaps it is time for a poll on what American Christians really believe. Here is one study:

https://www.barna.org/barna-update/...at-satan-or-the-holy-spirit-exis#.U3LKpPldWhE