Atheism

[Davian]

comming from someone with a signature like yours, I can imagine why you would say this. However I disagree, One of the largest Christian colleges has 65000 students, only 17,000 are actually at the college, the rest.....internet baby!

Are you aware that on almost every post you reply to on this board, you COMPLETELY miss the point that the poster has directed at you, and instead focus on some tangental aspect of the post. It's hard for me to believe you are not aware that you are doing this since nearly everyone here has pointed it out to you.

lol, I pointed that out back in post 435.

Perhaps gradyll has conflated being argumentative with having an actual argument.

 

[createdtoworship]

lol, I pointed that out back in post 435.

Perhaps gradyll has conflated being argumentative with having an actual argument.

I argue to disagree with your assessment!

 

[Eudaimonist]

That is what counselors are for. I have no objection to counseling being made availible for those of no religion, but chaplains, priests, pastors, etc are for religious people; not atheists.

Says you.

There's no reason why atheist chaplains can't perform a role similar to counselors and be chaplains. This doesn't turn atheism into a religion, and there's no reason to fear that it would.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[RoadWarrior]

That doesn't follow. Having atheist chaplains isn't at all the same thing as establishing an atheist religion.

Then it's an oxymoron. Either an atheist chaplain is acknowledging that atheism is a belief-system aka religion or any non-believers who have mental needs should be referred to a psychiatrist.

Those demanding atheist chaplains are simply making a political statement, not a demand for services since 1) they don't have a religion and 2) any secular mental services are already available at the base hospital.

 

[createdtoworship]

Then it's an oxymoron. Either an atheist chaplain is acknowledging that atheism is a belief-system aka religion or any non-believers who have mental needs should be referred to a psychiatrist.

Those demanding atheist chaplains are simply making a political statement, not a demand for services since 1) they don't have a religion and 2) any secular mental services are already available at the base hospital.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Either an atheist chaplain is acknowledging that atheism is a belief-system aka religion

Atheism isn't itself a belief system, however, atheists do have belief systems (worldviews) that don't include gods. That is all an atheist chaplain has to acknowledge.

And atheists may have more than merely "mental" needs. They have needs regarding values and meaning. This isn't obviously the forte of psychiatrists, and keep in mind that psychiatrists aren't necessarily atheists.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[createdtoworship]

Atheism isn't itself a belief system, however, atheists do have belief systems (worldviews) that don't include gods. That is all an atheist chaplain has to acknowledge.

And atheists may have more than merely "mental" needs. They have needs regarding values and meaning. This isn't obviously the forte of psychiatrists, and keep in mind that psychiatrists aren't necessarily atheists.


eudaimonia,

Mark

curious to see:

a detailed list of moral values that you mantain that a chaplain may then relay through government wages.

 

[Eudaimonist]

a detailed list of moral values that you mantain that a chaplain may then relay through government wages.

Are you suggesting that religious chaplains don't discuss morals with people who speak with them? There's no need to single out atheist chaplains here. I've already said that chaplains are a very special exception that I'm willing to make regarding the separation of church and state, given the nature of military life.

What I expect an atheist chaplain to do is to become familiar with different atheist worldviews and learn how to speak with people in terms of their moral values. It would be the atheist soliders who come to them who would say what they believed, and the chaplain would then speak from their context.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[createdtoworship]

Are you suggesting that religious chaplains don't discuss morals with people who speak with them? There's no need to single out atheist chaplains here. I've already said that chaplains are a very special exception that I'm willing to make regarding the separation of church and state, given the nature of military life.

What I expect an atheist chaplain to do is to become familiar with different atheist worldviews and learn how to speak with people in terms of their moral values. It would be the atheist soliders who come to them who would say what they believed, and the chaplain would then speak from their context.


eudaimonia,

Mark

so athiests should be paid by the military to discuss various forms of atheism. No other values than that? Because that's what a relgious person like the chaplain does.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Atheism isn't itself a belief system, however, atheists do have belief systems (worldviews) that don't include gods. That is all an atheist chaplain has to acknowledge.

Chaplains attend to spiritual needs. Since atheists don't believe in "spirits" or anything beyond the physical universe, there is no need for a "spiritual counselor". OTOH, an atheist who believes in the afterlife but not a specific deity is not really an atheist. They are either a pantheist, panentheist or some other form of believer. In that case, a chaplain for their beliefs would be entirely appropriate. An "atheist chaplain" is a non sequitur.

 

[createdtoworship]

Chaplains attend to spiritual needs. Since atheists don't believe in "spirits" or anything beyond the physical universe, there is no need for a "spiritual counselor". OTOH, an atheist who believes in the afterlife but not a specific deity is not really an atheist. They are either a pantheist, panentheist or some other form of believer. In that case, a chaplain for their beliefs would be entirely appropriate. An "atheist chaplain" is a non sequitur.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Recently I have become fascinated by Atheism and Atheistic philosophy.
I want to ask you guys (the Atheist community here) what should Christians know about Atheism?

1. Are you a weak Atheist or strong Atheist in your terms of views?

Well, an Atheist is an Atheist. The categories of strong vs weak aren't really all that useful. I would not be willing to make a positive assertion that a God does not exist though, as I can't demonstrate it.... but I also believe that no Gods exist, in the same way I believe Bigfoot doesn't exist. Both positions can not be proven though, so it would be intellectually dishonest to assert either one as fact.

2. What are your opinions on strong Atheism or weak Atheism?

If you're going to assert a positive belief, you'd better back it up with something demonstrable. If someone makes an absolute claim that God does not exist, they have a burden of proof in the same way a Theist that makes a claim that God exists has a burden of proof.

Atheism however is a neutral position. It's the position taken by someone who doesn't accept theistic claims. It doesn't mean it's outright rejecting those claims though.

3. What are your opinions on Religion?

Religion is one of, if not the most destructive institutions in human history, and does nothing but hold us back. It provides no good that a secular organization can't provide, and plenty of unneeded evils. The world would be far better off if Religion ceased to exist.

That being said, it shouldn't be legislated out of existence. People should still be free to believe what they want to... I think over time society will gradually become less and less religious on it's own.

4. What are your opinions on some of the more famous figures in Atheism today? E.g. Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Micheal Shermer, Stephen Hawkings, Peter Atkins, Sam Harris.

Some I agree with more than others, but they all have their valid points. I think overall everyone listed above are positive forces with unique insights.

5. Have you ever experienced any discrimination for being an Atheist?

Yes, it's mostly been online, but there has been one or two examples of discrimination in person over the years.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Chaplains attend to spiritual needs. Since atheists don't believe in "spirits" or anything beyond the physical universe, there is no need for a "spiritual counselor". OTOH, an atheist who believes in the afterlife but not a specific deity is not really an atheist. They are either a pantheist, panentheist or some other form of believer. In that case, a chaplain for their beliefs would be entirely appropriate. An "atheist chaplain" is a non sequitur.

Actually, that's false.

Atheists don't believe in Gods... spirits aren't necessarily Gods, or created by a God. Likewise, a God is not required for an afterlife.

You can be an Atheist and believe in all of those things and more, as long as you don't think they came from a God.

I should note, I don't hold those views... I don't believe Spirits or an Afterlife exists, however I just felt I should clarify that they aren't contradictory to Atheism as you stated in your post.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Chaplains attend to spiritual needs. Since atheists don't believe in "spirits" or anything beyond the physical universe, there is no need for a "spiritual counselor". OTOH, an atheist who believes in the afterlife but not a specific deity is not really an atheist. They are either a pantheist, panentheist or some other form of believer. In that case, a chaplain for their beliefs would be entirely appropriate. An "atheist chaplain" is a non sequitur.

Your characterisation of atheism is incorrect. An atheist is someone who doesn't affirm the existence of deities - that says nothing about ghosts, demons, the afterlife, etc, any one of which might elicit the need for spiritual counselling.

There's also the case where an atheist might need spiritual counselling to help answer troubling questions regarding the existence of God - maybe they've come to the conclusion that there is a God, but it's a wicked God, and that is immensely distressing to them, eliciting the need for spiritual counselling, the likes of which would only be needed by an atheist - an atheist counsellor.

Finally, there are religions which are by their nature atheistic - Buddhism, for instance. A Buddhist could certainly need counselling on his faith, which is both atheistic and spiritual.

 

[Dave Ellis]

There's also the case where an atheist might need spiritual counselling to help answer troubling questions regarding the existence of God - maybe they've come to the conclusion that there is a God, but it's a wicked God, and that is immensely distressing to them, eliciting the need for spiritual counselling, the likes of which would only be needed by an atheist - an atheist counsellor.

If they've come to the conclusion there is a God, wicked or not, they are by definition not an Atheist.

They'd be a Theist who believes in the existence of (but not necessarily worships) a wicked God.... What you'd classify that person as beyond Theist, I have no idea.

 

[DaneaFL]

Ya... 'atheist' is just the label we use for someone who hasn't yet been convinced in the existence of a supreme being... Nothing else.

You can be an atheist, rationalist, and humanist at the same time but they mean different things.

Atheism isn't a whole worldview. It's just a position on a specific topic: the existence of deities.

I think that's where Christians get confused... Christianity IS a whole worldview so they think that atheists must have one too...

Humanism, on the other hand, is I think a more complete worldview. But you can be a humanist and not an atheist.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

If they've come to the conclusion there is a God, wicked or not, they are by definition not an Atheist.

They'd be a Theist who believes in the existence of (but not necessarily worships) a wicked God.... What you'd classify that person as beyond Theist, I have no idea.

Nonetheless, they may well have need of an atheist counsellor. Maybe they're experiencing cognitive dissonance: they both do and do not believe in God. Maybe they're distress in their new-found belief in the existence of a wicked deity, cannot be addressed by a standard, theistic counsellor, because their belief is purely academic in nature - the theodicies of Christians, Jews, Jains, etc, cannot help them.

Maybe the atheistic counsellor can help by resolving the logical paradox they've worked themselves into, by showing them the flaw in said logic - that there's no real reason to believe in any deity, wicked or otherwise. This would be an atheistic counsellor solving a spiritual crisis - the individual may well be technically a theist, but that doesn't mean the counsellor needs to be.

 

[hollyda]

Atheism isn't a whole worldview. It's just a position on a specific topic: the existence of deities.

I think that's where Christians get confused... Christianity IS a whole worldview so they think that atheists must have one too...

This.

 

[createdtoworship]

Ya... 'atheist' is just the label we use for someone who hasn't yet been convinced in the existence of a supreme being... Nothing else.

You can be an atheist, rationalist, and humanist at the same time but they mean different things.

Atheism isn't a whole worldview. It's just a position on a specific topic: the existence of deities.

I think that's where Christians get confused... Christianity IS a whole worldview so they think that atheists must have one too...

Humanism, on the other hand, is I think a more complete worldview. But you can be a humanist and not an atheist.

you can even be an athiest and be into (ID) intelligent design

see Bradley Monton's book...

Seeking God in Science: An Atheist Defends Intelligent Design [Paperback]

 

[Eudaimonist]

I missed your post earlier.

Chaplains attend to spiritual needs. Since atheists don't believe in "spirits" or anything beyond the physical universe, there is no need for a "spiritual counselor".

Spiritual needs include existential needs, such as meaning in life. Spirituality is broader than superstitions.

OTOH, an atheist who believes in the afterlife but not a specific deity is not really an atheist.

That absolutely would be an atheist.

They are either a pantheist, panentheist or some other form of believer.

Atheist =/= nonbeliever in afterlives

Atheist == nonbeliever in deities


eudaimonia,

Mark