Atheism is reasonable, and Christianity is not (Redux)

[GenemZ]

Nope. That's not what that word means.

I am looking at the person.... not the words he hides behind.

I'd love to be apathetic. I yearn for the day when religion is as innocuous as belief in fairies, or ghosts, or leprechauns or any other imaginary entity.

Some people believe in fairies... especially when they get high.

Unfortunately, since 'gods' are incapable of doing anything on their own, the people who purport to speak and act on their behalf continue to affect me and my loved ones on a daily basis. That is part of the reason I feel it necessary to interact with believers.

You would still have to interact with anyone in your local who are just nasty people. Would you rather interact under a communist dictator?

Why not create a community for atheists? Go live there and be freed from what you don't like. We won't miss you. And, you won't miss us. Fair enough. Form your own little country. But, make sure not to persecute those born into the group that God will be able to draw to Himself. Be fair about it. Don't jump on them and try to program them into stop being what you see as being delusional. That is what Communist Russia tried and created a nation of miserable people.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

I am looking at the person.... not the words he hides behind.

Oooh. So "deep".

Why not create a community for atheists? Go live there and be freed from what you don't like.

You have it backwards. I already live in a secular nation, the only one in which freedom of and from religion is enshrined in the founding documents. People who want to live in a theocracy are welcome to get out of my country.

 

[GenemZ]

You have it backwards. I already live in a secular nation, the only one in which freedom of and from religion is enshrined in the founding documents. People who want to live in a theocracy are welcome to get out of my country.

No theocracy here. Unless you live in a Muslim neighborhood run by Sharia law.

Ironically.... this "secular nation" bloomed so magnificently because its foundation was based upon understanding nature and its God. Atheism is not what founded the United States. Russia under Communism was that example. Like the contrast?

Its not to be freedom from religion. Not in the sense you project. Its freedom to be free to either accept, or reject religion.

The USA is to be religiously laissez faire. Not free from religion. Because of that freedom? The United States is not a Christian nation. Yet, its been a highly Christianized nation. There is s difference. We are that way because we have the freedom to be so. People choose. You are an atheist because you are in a nation with religious freedom. Enjoy your freedom and stop being a worry wort. No one is going to burn you at the stake. You waste too much time not just going about and enjoying being alive. Seems you blame Christians for your unhappiness. We are not stopping you from being happy. You are only stopping yourself by believing lies about Christians wanting to form a theocracy.

There is no such thing as a Christian theocracy. The Catholic church was a monster and a perversion, not Christianity. Just like Islam when the religious leaders are in control is a monster and perversion.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

Ironically.... this "secular nation" bloomed so magnificently because its foundation was based upon understanding nature and its God.

You have the freedom to imagine that, if you wish.

Atheism is not what founded the United States.

Never said it was.

Secularism is the word you're looking for.

Russia under Communism was that example. Like the contrast?

No, communist Russia was founded on communism. Atheism is not a worldview. It's a philosophical position regarding one thing - the existence of gods. No wonder you're so confused.

You've made an inordinate amount of baseless assumptions and naked assertions in your responses to me so far. You should slow down and think about your words before you type them.

 

[GenemZ]

Never said it was.

Secularism is the word you're looking for.

So you are admitting that Atheism is not secularism if it ran a country. It slipped, and I caught it.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

So you are admitting that Atheism is not secularism if it ran a country. It slipped, and I caught it.

Nowhere did I equate secularism and atheism.

 

[HitchSlap]

Why not create a community for atheists?

We did, it's called the USA.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

We did, it's called the USA.

Watch out - category error coming your way.

 

[GenemZ]

Watch out - category error coming your way.

And, you keep waiting for them.

An atheist once said.. " I elicit responses/reactions from believers. Therefore, I am. "

It would destroy your sense of self importance if your atheism went completely ignored.

 

[GenemZ]

No, communist Russia was founded on communism. Atheism is not a worldview. It's a philosophical position regarding one thing - the existence of gods. No wonder you're so confused.

Which required one to be an atheist to be a true Communist.

" As Mikhail Gorbachev aptly stated, the Soviet communist state carried out a comprehensive “war on religion.” He lamented that the Bolsheviks, his predecessors, even after the civil war ended in the early 1920s, during a time of “peace,” had “continued to tear down churches, arrest clergymen, and destroy them. This was no longer understandable or justifiable. Atheism took rather savage forms in our country at that time.” The War on Religion | Victims of Communism​

 

[HitchSlap]

It would destroy your sense of self importance if your atheism went completely ignored.

Says the guy who thinks he has a relationship with the creator of the universe.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

Which required one to be an atheist to be a true Communist.

Which is utterly irrelevant to the point, of course - that communism (a particular school of communism in this case) is a worldview, and atheism, while it can be part of a worldview, isn't.

You really are intent on making basic category errors for the sake of your crappy apologetics, aren't you?

 

[GenemZ]

Says the guy who thinks he has a relationship with the creator of the universe.

If there is a God?

God says not all will believe. Because God made men free not to.

So what can I tell you? If its real? This is exactly how things would go down.

God made you free to not believe. Therefore? Should I try to do a better job with you, than God can?

You have plenty of them now. But, then you will have no excuses. Because your cleverness will not stand when God shows you how you were made to be without excuse. He'll show you. Not me. After all, if God was able to create all that is? His "brilliance" exceeds what we can dream or imagine. He has made you to be without excuse. If He had not? He would have no right to judge you when your time is up.

He will judge you and all the fairies and false gods as well. But, He actually has already judged all the fairies and false gods... Its men He is waiting for to catch up.

I am not surprised by your attitude. God exposes Christians to such thinking so we can mature in truth and learn to be happy in spite of what men choose around us to their own destruction. Its one way God makes His grace evident to those believers who find it.

"Because of these surpassingly great revelations. Therefore, in order to
keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a
messenger of Satan, to torment me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord
to take it away from me. But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for
you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” 2 Cor 12:7-9a
​

Believers reading this thread can understand that. Atheist expose our weaknesses so God can begin to strengthen us with truth and power from Him.

Please ignore that last passage and move on. its not to be debated with you, who can not grasp its meaning. Thank you. We accept MasterCard and Visa.

 

[GenemZ]

Which is utterly irrelevant to the point, of course - that communism (a particular school of communism in this case) is a worldview, and atheism, while it can be part of a worldview, isn't.

You really are intent on making basic category errors for the sake of your crappy apologetics, aren't you?

Nit picking to evade the truth? Nothing new. Others will get it though.

Communism requires one to be an atheist if they are to be a Communist. That was the ONLY point I was trying to make. Slicing and dicing like a lawyer will not make that truth go away.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

Nit picking to evade the truth?

Pointing out basic logical fallacies is not 'nitpicking'. You keep equating things with 'atheism' that aren't equivalent. That's a category error, and your arguments fall flat on their face because of it.

Nothing new. Others will get it though.

'Others' are currently witnessing you make an example of yourself. By all means, keep it up.

Communism requires one to be an atheist if they are to be a Communist. That was the ONLY point I was trying to make.

No, your point was that Stalinist Russia was 'founded' on 'atheism'. Which is an asinine naked assertion that you can't substantiate, though it is amusing watching you try.

 

[HitchSlap]

If you were describing a friend of yours in these terms, I'd tell you to lose him. Savvy?

If there is a God?

God says not all will believe. Because God made men free not to.

So what can I tell you? If its real? This is exactly how things would go down.

God made you free to not believe. Therefore? Should I try to do a better job with you, than God can?

You have plenty of them now. But, then you will have no excuses. Because your cleverness will not stand when God shows you how you were made to be without excuse. He'll show you. Not me. After all, if God was able to create all that is? His "brilliance" exceeds what we can dream or imagine. He has made you to be without excuse. If He had not? He would have no right to judge you when your time is up.

He will judge you and all the fairies and false gods as well. But, He actually has already judged all the fairies and false gods... Its men He is waiting for to catch up.

I am not surprised by your attitude. God exposes Christians to such thinking so we can mature in truth and learn to be happy in spite of what men choose around us to their own destruction. Its one way God makes His grace evident to those believers who find it.

"Because of these surpassingly great revelations. Therefore, in order to
keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a
messenger of Satan, to torment me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord
to take it away from me. But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for
you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” 2 Cor 12:7-9a
​

Believers reading this thread can understand that. Atheist expose our weaknesses so God can begin to strengthen us with truth and power from Him.

Please ignore that last passage and move on. its not to be debated with you, who can not grasp its meaning. Thank you. We accept MasterCard and Visa.

 

[GenemZ]

No, your point was that Stalinist Russia was 'founded' on 'atheism'. Which is an asinine naked assertion that you can't substantiate, though it is amusing watching you try.

Communism is the thinking of an atheist. Its not atheism per se. But one needs to be an atheist to be a good communist. Communism rejects the ideas of religion and gods.

I do not know why I should need to show you this... Nikolai Bukharin and Evgenii Preobrazhensky: The ABC of Communism - Chapter XI : Communism and Religion

Lying is a part of the Communist modus operandi. It becomes uncomplicated to do if one is an atheist.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

Communism is the thinking of an atheist.

In your imagination, I'm sure.

In reality, one is a very broad-ranging socio-political philosophy, and the other is...not.

Its not atheism per se.

It's not atheism, period. Go study basic logical fallacies. You are making extremely basic category errors.

Or don't. Keep making an example of yourself.

It becomes uncomplicated to do if one is an atheist.

You're confused again. You might require the oversight of a cosmic wizard to keep you from lying, but I don't. Gods are utterly irrelevant to my moral philosophy.

 

[GenemZ]

genez said: ↑

Communism is the thinking of an atheist.

In your imagination, I'm sure.

In reality, one is a very broad-ranging socio-political philosophy, and the other is...not.

You have your own escape hatch devised by not getting my point? Was Karl Marx not an atheist?

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

You have your own escape hatch devised by not getting my point?

Your 'point' is a vacuous naked assertion predicated on a basic category error - that 'atheism' and 'communism' are equivalent.

Was Karl Marx not an atheist?

He was. That does not magically make 'atheism' and 'communism' equivalent terms, no matter how hard you want to play make-believe.