Atheism: Is it a religion?

[Crazy Liz]

Correct me if I'm wrong in any of this:

1. Theistic religion is a religion because the adherent to the religion has faith in the existence of G-d

(Agree/disagree: ______________ ). disagree.

1. What's of lesser importance, but still somewhat relevant, is that the adherent may or may not engage in worship, and may or may not engage in ritual. Christian church, for example, is just a gathering of two (or more) people in the name of Yeshua, which means Christians do not practice or observe ritual

(Agree/disagree: ______________ ). disagree.

1. If #1 is true, then I am religious by just having faith in (or believing in) G-d

(Agree/disagree: ______________ ). #1 is not true.

Stop now and agree or disagree on items #1 through #3. If you disagree with any of the three items, do not continue. If you agree on all of them, continue.
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1. Atheism is defined as having faith in (or believing in) the non-existence of the theistic G-d

(Agree/disagree: ______________ ).

1. The Atheist may or may not engage in worship, and may or may not engage in ritual related to this faith or belief. Two or more Atheists may gather together, but not in the name of a theistic G-d

(Agree/disagree: ______________ ).

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Reply to this post with your answers. We cannot continue until everyone has replied.

.

Stopped with #3, as requested.

 

[Holy Roller]

1. Theistic religion is a religion because the adherent to the religion has faith in the existence of G-d

(Agree/disagree: ______________ ). disagree.

1. What's of lesser importance, but still somewhat relevant, is that the adherent may or may not engage in worship, and may or may not engage in ritual. Christian church, for example, is just a gathering of two (or more) people in the name of Yeshua, which means Christians do not practice or observe ritual

(Agree/disagree: ______________ ). disagree.

1. If #1 is true, then I am religious by just having faith in (or believing in) G-d

(Agree/disagree: ______________ ). #1 is not true.



Stopped with #3, as requested.

Anyone else?

.

 

[Bombila]

Perhaps, Holy Roller, you should move on to anti-theists, who you may be closer to describing in your continued effort to prove atheism to be a religion. They are rather rare, though - I only know of one that frquents CF.

I'll agree with CaDan that RRS and some other intellectually incestuous self-identified atheist groups may be approaching territory which should be marked with a big sign: Here There Be Cults. But the majority of atheists don't engage theism or religion at all unless they are forced to in order to defend themselves. They really don't care what you believe, as long as you (meaning, theists) don't bother them too much.

Most atheists (since you seem to have trouble with other definitions, perhaps many definitions will help) have no such faith in the non-existence of gods as you insist. I, for example, can be described as an agnostic atheist. It seems unlikely to me that there is a personal god, or any god, such as theists imagine and have faith in the existence of. I have never seen any evidence of such, or sensed the presence or influence of such, and no event described by theists has seemed particularly credible, or else is easily explained by purely natural causes. I don't say outright "There is no god" - that would require a degree of confidence in my own knowledge of the workings of the universe that I don't claim. Nevertheless, I am atheist in that I don't currently see any reason to beleive in a god. That isn't faith. That's reason. I certainly don't engage atheist worship or ritual - what on earth would that consist of, burning Bibles in front of an effigy of Carl Sagan?

In fact, you seem to be tilting at a very ephemeral windmill, that really small sub-group of atheists who find religion either interesting or threatening, and so engage in message board fencing with theists, for mutual fun and edification. So indeed, if you are hunting atheists, you've found some out. It's a bit of a canned hunt though, given we come here lured by the heady aroma of mixed theism - we aren't your wild, untamed atheists, but more like bears gotten familiar with human habitations. I won't take that analogy any further, you can see where it's going.

 

[ravenscape]

Heeey! I demand credit. I was the one who brought up RRS and their ilk.

 

[seeker777]

I'm done with this guy holy roller, he doesn't seem to be listening to anyone or even trying to learn anything.

I presented a scenario to you ( in direct response to you assertion) on two separate occasions, and you ignored me both times.

I do not agree with you Holy Roller, Atheism is not a religion or a faith. ( Now you can't tell on me, as I am on topic)

 

[dlamberth]

_____________________________________________________________________________



Correct me if I'm wrong in any of this:

• (#1) Theistic religion is a religion because the adherent to the religion has faith in the existence of the theistic G-d

(Agree/disagree: ______________ ).

• (#2) What's of lesser importance, but still somewhat relevant, is that the adherent may or may not engage in worship, and may or may not engage in ritual. Christian church, for example, is just a gathering of two (or more) people in the name of Yeshua, which means Christians do not have to practice or observe ritual in order for them to be called Christian.

(Agree/disagree: ______________ ).

• (#3) If #1 is true, then I am religious by just having faith in (or believing in) G-d. Item #2 may be true or false.

(Agree/disagree: ______________ ).



Stop now and agree or disagree on items #1 through #3. If you disagree with any of the three items, do not continue. If you agree on all of them, continue.
------------------------------------------------------------------

• (#1) Atheism is defined as having faith in (or believing in) the non-existence of the theistic G-d

(Agree/disagree: ______________ ).

• (#2) The Atheist may or may not engage in worship, and may or may not engage in ritual related to this faith or belief. Two or more Atheists may gather together, but not in the name of a theistic G-d

(Agree/disagree: ______________ ).



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Reply to this post with your answers. We cannot continue until everyone has replied.

.

1. Mostly agree.
2. disagree
3. Mostly agree


1. disagree
2. agree

.

 

[ravenscape]

Holy Roller
Atheist hunter

If you don't have a good working definition of what they are, your hunting will likely not fare so well.

 

[TheD]

(#1) Theistic religion is a religion because the adherent to the religion has faith in the existence of the theistic G-d.

Atheism however has no 'G-D' of it's own, seeing as how it would either be 'proven'
non-existent or other such common attributes in the world of reasoning.
It is not a religion, and I doubt a non religious community would approve
of such misunderstanding of that simple observation.

(#2) What's of lesser importance, but still somewhat relevant, is that the adherent may or may not engage in worship, and may or may not engage in ritual. Christian church, for example, is just a gathering of two (or more) people in the name of Yeshua, which means Christians do not have to practice or observe ritual in order for them to be called Christian.

Atheist movements mock Christian customs (not all though!) and hardly ever embrace them as a whole. They adhere to a 'better' physical conditioning, this could be taken as 'self worship' but it's actually just causing more separation then unity. Which is where theism comes in.
Decent Atheist individuals may have some rituals, or survival techniques when dealing with outsiders
but it's not a religion that's survived for 10,000+ years.
You're not threatened, and it's not a religious ceremony for someone too be an 'unbeliever' in G-D.

(#3) If #1 is true, then I am religious by just having faith in (or believing in) G-d. Item #2 may be true or false.

Neither is 'true' or 'false' entirely.
#1 and #2 are compatible with each other, but not when we drag Atheism into the mix though.
They will have altruistic intentions, like a Christian for example.
This does not make Atheism a religion any more then a creationist would falsely argue 'evolution'
in an extremely short time frame and very low patience to even note the effects of the object. Rotting/decay is 'evolution', but it's not progressive 'evolution' like religion.
This does not make the general 'theory' completley wrong.
I advise some counsel with G-d, or maybe just some time to learn before jumping
too odd conclusions like asserting the claim that Atheism is some how a religion.

Stop now and agree or disagree on items #1 through #3. If you disagree with any of the three items, do not continue. If you agree on all of them, continue.

I agree, none of it 'disproves' Atheism to be religious in any matter though.
It's a state of mind, probably not as active as other cultural attributes but still one nonetheless.

(#1) Atheism is defined as having faith in (or believing in) the non-existence of the theistic G-d.

This is where your opinion slaps itself in the face.
Although I agree, they're 'belief' in as you described does not make Atheism a religion.
If I believed that pineapples were non existent due too my Atheist view or 'belief' (putting points in the delusion skill!), repetitively you would try to give it too me to eat, to taste the reality of that pineapple flavor. I deny it exists, because you've forced me to 'believe' otherwise (Pro-Pineapple). I will search for 'evidence' and the like for this pineapple flavor and manifestation, but I cannot agree from a pro-pineapple representative that such an edible thing exists.
To 'prove' myself, I might instead conform from others that meat is the
most edible and most real flavor in the whole universe (Pro-Cannibalism).
Now, in your own opinion how does a Pro-Cannibalistic Atheist show he has religious attributes like a bunch of Pro-Pineapple believers? He will never taste the pineapple, but whose to say he won't strive
to taste something that he's come to 'believe' doesn't exist?
Say he abandons Pro-Cannibalism and really does his best to have faith in Pineapples, does this make his previous 'faith' a religion because he's interested in a different flavor of 'reality' that's been indoctrinated and accepted by ALL of the believers in other unknown faiths?
no, I don't think so.

(#2) The Atheist may or may not engage in worship, and may or may not engage in ritual related to this faith or belief. Two or more Atheists may gather together, but not in the name of a theistic G-d.

Disagree.
All outcomes are acceptable at this point.
This would depend on the nature or history of the Atheists.
Say one was previously pagan, and still practices theistic paganism.
Does this mean they are refusing to worship G-D himself? no.
Does this also mean that they may have limited or no 'belief' in G-D? yes.
On a different note, very few or no Atheists would engage in any ritual faith
that involves a 'non existing' entity/deity.
None of this makes atheism a religion, because of
individual representatives and experiences with theism.

The first #1 can fluctuate, and so can the second #2.
None of my own opinion here promotes religious Atheism, because Atheism is not a religion.
My advice is not meant to belittle you, and I believe that pineapples and cannibalism exist both
by historic evidence and personal experience.
Atheists do not eat other humans, and pineapples most certainly have a unique flavorful reality from
the creator/designer.

Try Again, Roller?

 

[Eudaimonist]

(#1) Theistic religion is a religion because the adherent to the religion has faith in the existence of the theistic G-d.

Disagree, but only because I make a distinction between theism and religion. A religion is more than just theistic belief, although it includes theistic belief. This is why I don't consider Buddhism to be necessarily a religion (although it is for many).

(#2) What's of lesser importance, but still somewhat relevant, is that the adherent may or may not engage in worship, and may or may not engage in ritual. Christian church, for example, is just a gathering of two (or more) people in the name of Yeshua, which means Christians do not have to practice or observe ritual in order for them to be called Christian.

Agreed to an extent. But I would say that it is the relationship established with a god, by whatever chosen means, that really makes something a religion.

This may involve rituals, but need not. This may involve worship, but need not. This may involve accepting the moral authority of a god, but need not. It must take some form, but not any one specific form.

(#1) Atheism is defined as having faith in (or believing in) the non-existence of the theistic G-d.

Disagree. Atheism is not having belief in the existence of a theistic god or gods. The atheist's worldview is literally "godless".

(#2) The Atheist may or may not engage in worship, and may or may not engage in ritual related to this faith or belief. Two or more Atheists may gather together, but not in the name of a theistic G-d.

Agreed, but replacing the phrase "faith or belief" with "lack of faith or belief".


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[TooCurious]

You have to be more articulate than this. You allege your religion is the "absence of belief in any deities". Well, Zeus is a deity. I think what you're trying to say is that your religion is the "absence of belief in a theistic G-d."

The distinction is important.

I don't see the distinction you're trying to draw. I don't believe in Zeus, and I don't believe in the Christian God. Zeus is a god, too. He's from a polytheistic religion, rather than a monotheistic one, but that doesn't make him less of a god. Zeus and the Christian God are both deities, and I don't believe in either of them (or Odin, or Vishnu, or Quetzalcoatl for that matter).

And no, I don't "allege that my religion" is anything in particular, because I don't have a religion. I'm an atheist. Didn't we just have this conversation?

 

[Braunwyn]

If the term religion is to be loosely used than I think ethical veganism is a much better example. There aren't any deities or rituals but a movement is involved, either personally or within a community. It's a lifestyle, as being religous is a lifestyle, and it extends beyond words to action or considerate non-action. Atheism, as I experience it, doesn't include any of those things.

 

[thaumaturgy]

[*](#1) Theistic religion is a religion because the adherent to the religion has faith in the existence of the theistic G-d
[/LIST](Agree/disagree: ______________ ).

Unable to disagree or agree since "theistic god" is redundant and sounds like a sui generis construct which will only muddy the waters by relying on your own unique interpretation of a nearly meaningless redundancy that may have meaning only to you.

• (#2) What's of lesser importance, but still somewhat relevant, is that the adherent may or may not engage in worship, and may or may not engage in ritual. Christian church, for example, is just a gathering of two (or more) people in the name of Yeshua, which means Christians do not have to practice or observe ritual in order for them to be called Christian.

(Agree/disagree: ______________ ).

Agree. One need not have "services" to be religious. Indeed one merely need hold a particular belief in common around a "supernatural agency or morality". "Services" usually only serve to maintain coherence since there is often no "outside" source of information confirmatory of any given common belief in the supernatural among a group of individuals. (This is called "indoctrination".)

• (#3) If #1 is true, then I am religious by just having faith in (or believing in) G-d. Item #2 may be true or false.

(Agree/disagree: ______________ ).

Agree, as per Wordnet.princeton.edu:

• S: (n) religion, faith, religious belief (a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny)

• (#1) Atheism is defined as having faith in (or believing in) the non-existence of the theistic G-d

(Agree/disagree: ______________ ).

PLEASE RE-READ THE POSTS BY MANY OF THE ATHEISTS. You really need to read others' commentary before you unilaterally dismiss it in order to form your own strawman.

I will limit my discussion to "Weak Atheism" for obvious reasons:

Atheism, specifically "Weak Atheism", is the failure to believe in the existence of God.

I know his is hard to understand for some folks, but it is a very important distinction. It is NOT an active disbelief except in the "Strong Atheist" variant. Active disbelief indicates one is attempting to prove a negative. That is logically incoherent. That is why many who have put more than a few minutes into their atheism don't usually make the strong positive claim "There is no God".

Are there strong atheists out there who do? Sure. But then there are Christians who do non-Christian things as well.

The point being that Weak Atheism, at it's core, being the most logically robust form of atheism merely fails to believe in God.

I highly recommend you pay closer attention before continuing on your merry way burning strawmen in your march to the sea of ignorance. We have put many hours, years and effort into understanding religion, both from the religious side and from the atheist side, the least you can do is show us the respect of actually attempting to understand OUR point of view in return.

• (#2) The Atheist may or may not engage in worship, and may or may not engage in ritual related to this faith or belief. Two or more Atheists may gather together, but not in the name of a theistic G-d

(Agree/disagree: ______________ ).

Worship of what??

Reply to this post with your answers. We cannot continue until everyone has replied.

Is this 7th grade? I remember seeing notes passed around like this.

 

[TooCurious]

_____________________________________________________________________________



Correct me if I'm wrong in any of this:

• (#1) Theistic religion is a religion because the adherent to the religion has faith in the existence of the theistic G-d

(Agree/disagree: ______________ ).

Disagree. Religion involves more than the acceptance of a claim. Dictionary.com defines "religion" in the following way:

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Religion involves a great deal more than simple assent to the proposition of the existence of a deity.

• (#2) What's of lesser importance, but still somewhat relevant, is that the adherent may or may not engage in worship, and may or may not engage in ritual. Christian church, for example, is just a gathering of two (or more) people in the name of Yeshua, which means Christians do not have to practice or observe ritual in order for them to be called Christian.

(Agree/disagree: ______________ ).

Disagree. Worship, ritual, moral codes, and the like are more than "of lesser importance, but still somewhat relevant" to the definition of religion. And in all of my experience with Christianity, it involves a great deal more than two or more people gathering; usually, these people DO things when they gather, and the things that they do are often of a religious nature. Maybe your denomination is different; maybe you really do simply "gather in Yeshua's name" and then play checkers. Then it wouldn't be a religion.

• (#3) If #1 is true, then I am religious by just having faith in (or believing in) G-d. Item #2 may be true or false.

(Agree/disagree: ______________ ).

Well, #1 isn't true, so I don't think #3 is going to go anywhere useful.

Stop now and agree or disagree on items #1 through #3. If you disagree with any of the three items, do not continue. If you agree on all of them, continue.
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I hope you won't mind if I continue anyway. I think there are a few more misconceptions that need clearing up.

• (#1) Atheism is defined as having faith in (or believing in) the non-existence of the theistic G-d

(Agree/disagree: ______________ ).

Disagree. Six words in, you're wrong. Atheism is defined as NOT having faith in the proposition that any gods exist (including the Christian God). This is not the same thing as affirming a belief in the non-existence of gods (this may be where you're tripping up). The burden of proof rests on the party making the positive claim, and until sufficient evidence is presented, it is logically valid not to reject the null hypothesis.

• (#2) The Atheist may or may not engage in worship, and may or may not engage in ritual related to this faith or belief. Two or more Atheists may gather together, but not in the name of a theistic G-d

(Agree/disagree: ______________ ).

Atheists certainly don't engage in worship, as they do not believe in any entities whom they might worship. Atheists have no faith or belief relating to which they might engage in ritual. Your entire first sentence confuses me.

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Reply to this post with your answers. We cannot continue until everyone has replied.

.

I hope my responses have helped clarify matters for you.

 

[feral]

I do not know if atheism can always be defined as a religion, since some people are atheists out of pure apathy. Certainly atheism can become a religion, as it has to many who devote their lives to debating against theism.

I take issue with the notion that people become atheists out of apathy. Atheism, I think, is quite a bit different from the undecided/neutral position you seem to be mistaking it for. Strong atheism especially seems to take quite a bit of work. It's a position based on research and evidence; someone doesn't become an atheist by just waking up one Sunday and deciding they'd rather go back to bed than go to church. The majority of atheists I know are well versed in the various religious texts, they've read arguments from different persuasive speakers on different sides of the issue, and often they have some experience closely examining or even having been a participant in a particular faith. That to me is different from the person who has just never been exposed to religion and doesn't care or know about it.

Furthermore, in the second sentence I think you're mistaking religion for hobby.

We don't respect religion, because faith in Yeshua is a relationship with G-d, not a religion.

That's nice. Meet for tea a lot, do you?

Christianity is defined as a monotheistic religion and one of the world's three most prevalent faiths. That would seem to indicate it's a religion. Furthermore, it's intensely organised with rituals, holidays, laws, moral codes, etc. How can Christianity not be considered a religion?

I thought Atheism was the faith (belief) that there's no way G-d can be proven to exist.

No, that opinion most closely matches those on my side of the fence (ie, dancing on a fencepost). Agnosticism refers to the idea that we cannot know/prove the claims of the various religions, nor disprove them. It's a declarative "don't know". Atheists usually think the evidence strongly indicates or will indicate an absence of gods.

As for the little survey there, I'll do it the easy way.

Reply to this post with your answers. We cannot continue until everyone has replied.

#1 - What TooCurious said.

#2 I disagree with this. Rituals may well vary from denomination to denomination, but there are many uniform elements of Christianity that come across as mandatory. Would you call someone a Christian if they avoided all communal/church gatherings; refused to worship in any form; denounced baptism as a silly water ritual; had never bothered to pick up the Bible and did not wish to hear the Bible read to or quoted for them; was unaware of all manner of Christian creeds and claims; would not perform a profession of faith; acted against the moral code by flouting his/her homosexuality, penchant for thievery and interest in the occult; and went regularly to a mosque for prayers? I'm presuming no, because there are certain elements that make a Christian a Christian. If a few are lacking, that is acceptable, but if all forms of "ritual" are absent, there is nothing to define the Christian and separate him/her from any other religion.

Atheism doesn't have these things. I've often heard atheism aligned with various scientific theories, but an atheist doesn't have to profess "faith" in evolution, the big bang, etc in order to be an atheist. There are no meeting places. Nothing is worshipped. There are no required texts. Atheism does not have an exclusive moral code, nor believe one was handed down specifically to a group of peole after a covenant was made. There are no prayers or rituals.

#3 Disagree. I also disagreed with #1. Religion encompasses more than an opinion.

 

[JadeTigress]

To me, one can hold supernatural beliefs (be it deities, magic, ghosts, whatever) without being religious. The belief itself does not make one religious. I'm a theist, but I'm not religious. Actually, my theism is just like my atheism was. It just doesn't impact my life, and I don't really concern myself with it. With atheism, I didn't believe that any sort of deities existed, and that was it. I never thought about it or dwelled on it; that was just the way it was and I continued to go about my life.

Same thing now that I'm a theist. "Yeah, I guess it really is there," and it has no impact on my life. I don't worship it or anything. Once again, I just go about my life, doing what I've always done.

Moving on; to me, 'religion' is when you take those supernatural beliefs and have some sort of doctrine surrounding them that you adhere to.

 

[thaumaturgy]

To me, one can hold supernatural beliefs (be it deities, magic, ghosts, whatever) without being religious. The belief itself does not make one religious. I'm a theist, but I'm not religious.

Unfortunately religion is not limited solely to those beliefs that are coordinated among a larger group. However that is the common utility of that term. But if you look at many definitions they make no such requirement:

S: (n) religion, faith, religious belief (a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny)(SOURCE)

religion - a set of attitudes, beliefs, and practices pertaining to supernatural power.
(SOURCE)

RELIGION: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices (emphasis added)

RELIGIOUS: relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity (SOURCE)

So even if your beliefs are not an organized or even "shared" concept it may still be, technically speaking, a religion.

Actually, my theism is just like my atheism was. It just doesn't impact my life, and I don't really concern myself with it.

That is good for you. It was not thus for me.

With atheism, I didn't believe that any sort of deities existed, and that was it. I never thought about it or dwelled on it; that was just the way it was and I continued to go about my life.

So did you come to believe in the supernatural for a particular reason?

Same thing now that I'm a theist. "Yeah, I guess it really is there," and it has no impact on my life. I don't worship it or anything. Once again, I just go about my life, doing what I've always done.

So the reasons that brought about your current belief in things unseen and uncommon to anyone else was not sufficiently moving to alter your life?

Interesting.

Moving on; to me, 'religion' is when you take those supernatural beliefs and have some sort of doctrine surrounding them that you adhere to.

Well your belief, such as it is, is founded on something, I assume it isn't merely that one day a thought popped into your head and stuck that there is a god or gods, etc. As such presumably you have formulated that belief into some semblance of a coherent thought, correct? Would that not be a sort of "doctrine"?

I also assume your supernatural beliefs are not about any sort of being who cares what you do or how you do it. Kind of like my belief that the city of Cleveland actually exists even though I've never been there and have no desire to go. It doesn't really affect my life in any way.

 

[JadeTigress]

So did you come to believe in the supernatural for a particular reason?

I'd had so many run ins with various supernatural stuff, and continued to dismiss it and assume that there was a rational explanation. Finally I just couldn't keep dismissing it and accepted my perception of things for how they were.

I say 'my perception', because that's exactly what it is. Two people can look at the same thing and insist that two different things are happening.

And with this sort of stuff, you can't say that one person is more or less right than another, since it can't be tested and proven. That's the very nature of being supernatural. It's outside the realm of nature, and science can only test what is in our natural realm.

So the reasons that brought about your current belief in things unseen and uncommon to anyone else was not sufficiently moving to alter your life?

Interesting.

No. Why should I alter my life? Things are how they are, regardless of how I believe they are. So I see no reason to alter my life simply because my perception of what's going on may have changed.

Well your belief, such as it is, is founded on something, I assume it isn't merely that one day a thought popped into your head and stuck that there is a god or gods, etc. As such presumably you have formulated that belief into some semblance of a coherent thought, correct? Would that not be a sort of "doctrine"?

This could be a matter of definitions, as well, but to me doctrine is when you have your beliefs, your rules based upon those beliefs, your various rituals and worship that you have to do because of said beliefs...

I don't have any of that. Simply a belief in a higher power. That's it. Everything else in my life has remained the same, and if the things I believed weren't doctrine when I was an atheist, I don't think those same things suddenly become doctrine simply because of a shift to theism.

I also assume your supernatural beliefs are not about any sort of being who cares what you do or how you do it. Kind of like my belief that the city of Cleveland actually exists even though I've never been there and have no desire to go. It doesn't really affect my life in any way.

Yes (sort of) and no. As a whole, no. When you die, the same thing happens to you no matter what you believed or did while you were alive. They just don't care what us puny mortals do. It doesn't affect them at all.

However, they do take an interest in some people. But even then, they don't demand constant worship and adherence to a strict doctrine. It's more like, "Hey, you've caught my interest for -insert reason-", and trying to work up a contract, for lack of a better word, for binding to said deity. You have to be careful with that [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth], because depending on who the deity is, they'll screw you over.

And when I say 'binding', I mean like whatever deity becoming your patron god/goddess.

 

[Holy Roller]

Perhaps, Holy Roller, you should move on to anti-theists, who you may be closer to describing in your continued effort to prove atheism to be a religion. They are rather rare, though - I only know of one that frquents CF.

I'll agree with CaDan that RRS and some other intellectually incestuous self-identified atheist groups may be approaching territory which should be marked with a big sign: Here There Be Cults. But the majority of atheists don't engage theism or religion at all unless they are forced to in order to defend themselves. They really don't care what you believe, as long as you (meaning, theists) don't bother them too much.

What I put in bold is kinda what us Jewish and many Christians do--we defend our faith from the agnostic or Atheist smug people when our faith or ourselves is being attacked. If they call Yeshua or Moses a fairy tale and call us "retards" because of it, I'll pick up the sword (pen) and write my defence.

Most atheists (since you seem to have trouble with other definitions, perhaps many definitions will help) have no such faith in the non-existence of gods as you insist. I, for example, can be described as an agnostic atheist.

Here you may be blurring the lines between Atheism and agnosticism. Atheists believe (have faith) that there is no G-d, while agnostics have no such faith. Faith, in fact, is what separates the two.

I don't say outright "There is no god" - that would require a degree of confidence in my own knowledge of the workings of the universe that I don't claim.

Indeed, this is wisdom that many Atheists fail to pursue.

Nevertheless, I am atheist in that I don't currently see any reason to beleive in a god. That isn't faith. That's reason. I certainly don't engage atheist worship or ritual - what on earth would that consist of, burning Bibles in front of an effigy of Carl Sagan?

Speaking of the late Doctor, if he were alive today reading this, he'd be agreeing with everything I have said, including my efforts in the physical sciences forum. Richard Dawkins, I doubt. He's too irrational and too passionate. He's militant, in fact.

In fact, you seem to be tilting at a very ephemeral windmill, that really small sub-group of atheists who find religion either interesting or threatening, and so engage in message board fencing with theists, for mutual fun and edification. So indeed, if you are hunting atheists, you've found some out. It's a bit of a canned hunt though, given we come here lured by the heady aroma of mixed theism - we aren't your wild, untamed atheists, but more like bears gotten familiar with human habitations. I won't take that analogy any further, you can see where it's going.

What's odd, is teh only gorup I have had problems with on this message board have been the Christians (or those who have a Cristian Icon, whatever it's worth). Most the agnostics have been more reasonable, and have less of a threatening posture. Ironic, in light of the fact that I am a completed Jew.
I commend you on a well thought-out post. It is indeed a relief from all the smack I've been getting from the Christians (and some Atheists) on this message board! Thank you

 

[seeker777]

When you die, the same thing happens to you no matter what you believed or did while you were alive. They just don't care what us puny mortals do. It doesn't affect them at all.

However, they do take an interest in some people. But even then, they don't demand constant worship and adherence to a strict doctrine. It's more like, "Hey, you've caught my interest for -insert reason-", and trying to work up a contract, for lack of a better word, for binding to said deity. .

How do you know all of this, or did you just come to this conclusion on your own?

It's amazing that you can have such a solid belief in an entire world of the supernatural, know how it operates and you have experienced the supernatural multiple times in your life.

Yet you can somehow remain utterly uninterested in this realm, a realm that very few people have access to or even know about.

Interesting that your able to restrain your emotions, curiosities and passions regarding this supernatural realm that you have special access to.

 

[seeker777]

Atheists believe (have faith) that there is no G-d,

Holy Roller, if I told you that I worshiped a living Deity that looked like an elephant, was pink, spoke french, had 7 eyes, ate books, lived in my closet and reconciles me to God....

Would you believe in this Deity?

If no, then you believe ( have faith) that no such God exists.

Your faith is therefor dependent upon my belief. Your religion revolves around your unbelief in my imaginary elephant Deity.