Atheism in Monty Python debate....awesome

[gurneyhalleck1]

For years I really loved John Cleese and Michael Palin, two of the braintrusts behind Monty Python. I grew adoring Time Bandits, etc. But when I saw "the Life of Brian," I was blown away by the blasphemy and sickening stuff they put into that flick. I ran across a talk show in England circa 1983 or so where Palin and Cleese are debating the then-bishop of Southwark, Mervyn Stockwood, and Catholic author/commentator named Malcolm Muggeridge and it was so relevant to what we're seeing today in the world---two types of people. I saw the usual arguments where the Christians argued the Gospel with a rational, common sense, historical, intelligent angle while the atheists argue with humor that seeks to distract and to use vague arguments that use the "open mind" vantage point that is tantamount to skeptical atheist 'religion.'

I got a lot out of listening to this debate, and I think it reinforces some things Rusmeister has said about us being careful who is behind the camera, script, and overall productions that we watch on TV or in film.

I hope you like this debate. I think these two Christians are outstanding....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5gm9hoTw6Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCyW8hkKvXc

 

[ArmyMatt]

haha, British insults are awesome

John Cleese's main point is have a critical attitude but come to no conclusion.

and they showed their ignorance totally.

 

[michaeldimmickjr]

Comedy is one of the most used ways to indoctrinate the masses via TV, Movies, etc.

 

[michaeldimmickjr]

I think John's "Starting point" sums up the spirit of the film and the spirit of the times quite well, "Work it out for yourselves... you're all individuals.. don't do what people tell you to do..."

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Yeah, Cleese tells us that he's not mocking Jesus, but if you see the film, it makes fun of the Crucifixion and totally lampoons Jesus from top to bottom. Then he's trying to get us to "think" or "have an open mind" to things. And yet when he gets angry and pressed on there, he ADMITS that he resented Christianity entirely from the get-go as a kid in school. He pokes fun at the length of time it took to write down the Gospels, etc. Every dig he gets in is an anti-Christian dig. And he uses humor each time to get the audience to hate religion as well. The bishop and author really tell him like it is. I hope more people in TAW watch this. I wish there were more people who were convicted enough to stand up to these 'comedians' who are so 'innocently' trying to just 'make us laugh.'

haha, British insults are awesome

John Cleese's main point is have a critical attitude but come to no conclusion.

and they showed their ignorance totally.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I felt the same way.

I think John's "Starting point" sums up the spirit of the film and the spirit of the times quite well, "Work it out for yourselves... you're all individuals.. don't do what people tell you to do..."

 

[ArmyMatt]

Yeah, Cleese tells us that he's not mocking Jesus, but if you see the film, it makes fun of the Crucifixion and totally lampoons Jesus from top to bottom. Then he's trying to get us to "think" or "have an open mind" to things. And yet when he gets angry and pressed on there, he ADMITS that he resented Christianity entirely from the get-go as a kid in school. He pokes fun at the length of time it took to write down the Gospels, etc. Every dig he gets in is an anti-Christian dig. And he uses humor each time to get the audience to hate religion as well. The bishop and author really tell him like it is. I hope more people in TAW watch this. I wish there were more people who were convicted enough to stand up to these 'comedians' who are so 'innocently' trying to just 'make us laugh.'

as an example, if they were to actually have read the Gospels, they would have found out two things. for one, Mark did not record the Sermon on the Mount, and for two, that sermon was only told to the 12. so the "speak up" gag is just stupid.

 

[Lukaris]

Oh wish I had never seen "the life of brian" back in early high school thinking it was a worthy, biting satire of a wretched superstition. Little did I know I was gulled by a superstitious tendency humor that probably traces back to an ancient form of pagan anti Christian witticism.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

No kidding! Monty Python is REVERED by so many people in the U.K....and here in the States! If you look at their motivations and attitudes, it's a huge turn off and makes me not even appreciate their stuff that isn't critical of religion. Their worldview is so anti-Christian, skeptical, and atheist, that I just can't stomach them now.

Oh wish I had never seen "the life of brian" back in early high school thinking it was a worthy, biting satire of a wretched superstition. Little did I know I was gulled by a superstitious tendency humor that probably traces back to an ancient form of pagan anti Christian witticism.

 

[Tallguy88]

It's still got some great stuff in it:

"Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"

 

[rusmeister]

I guess I'm glad I never saw that movie.

And yes, Muggeridge does show his much younger interlocuters up to be foolish.

Just listening to them gets boring fast. They sit there, suavely justifying laughing at the most deadly serious cosmic events of the Incarnation and Crucifixion. It's like 2nd-graders laughing at the original dialog of Shakespeare in, say, Romeo and Juliette or Hamlet, because they don't understand it.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I think John's "Starting point" sums up the spirit of the film and the spirit of the times quite well, "Work it out for yourselves... you're all individuals.. don't do what people tell you to do..."

yeah, just don't come to a conclusion different than mine. if you do, I will mock you repeatedly. if you listen as well, you can hear that his atheism is based on emotion, and not on reason (clearly, they didn't even get the Sermon on the Mount right). there really is nothing critical in his thinking at all.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Yeah, they always are ok with Jesus so far as his social sermons go. Turning the other cheek is great, caring for the poor is wonderful, loving your neighbor is super, but all the miracles are silly superstitious boloney, hell is a fable, His divinity is delusional, resurrection and incarnation are myths, etc. Kind of reminds me of Thomas Jefferson with his "Jefferson Bible!"

yeah, just don't come to a conclusion different than mine. if you do, I will mock you repeatedly. if you listen as well, you can hear that his atheism is based on emotion, and not on reason (clearly, they didn't even get the Sermon on the Mount right). there really is nothing critical in his thinking at all.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Yeah, they always are ok with Jesus so far as his social sermons go. Turning the other cheek is great, caring for the poor is wonderful, loving your neighbor is super, but all the miracles are silly superstitious boloney, hell is a fable, His divinity is delusional, resurrection and incarnation are myths, etc. Kind of reminds me of Thomas Jefferson with his "Jefferson Bible!"

yeah, that's the funny thing. if Christ were merely a teacher of social justice, the world would probably have forgotten Him. but the very thing they mock, is the very reason we actually know of Him, that He is who He says He is.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Exactly! Gandhi, Muhammad, Siddartha Gautama, Shankara, Zarathustra, and the boys never were a God who became Incarnate and came to the world to redeem it rising from death! Dead on, Matt.

yeah, that's the funny thing. if Christ were merely a teacher of social justice, the world would probably have forgotten Him. but the very thing they mock, is the very reason we actually know of Him, that He is who He says He is.

 

[Kristos]

It's still got some great stuff in it:

"Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

It did have some funny stuff in it. The movie is loaded with great gags, but the mockery of Jesus stuff and the general lampooning of Christianity and theism in general cancels out the 'good' stuff.

It's still got some great stuff in it:

"Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"

 

[Tallguy88]

It did have some funny stuff in it. The movie is loaded with great gags, but the mockery of Jesus stuff and the general lampooning of Christianity and theism in general cancels out the 'good' stuff.

I didn't watch the whole thing, it was years ago. I love Holy Grail though.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Time Bandits is my absolute FAVORITE! But I just start to raise and eyebrow and question as well as suspect anything I watch, listen to, or read when I know the authors of it are this anti-Christian....

I didn't watch the whole thing, it was years ago. I love Holy Grail though.

 

[rusmeister]

I tried watching a few YouTube presentations of the film (LOB). But it got too difficult to stomach almost immediately.
I watched the scene with the man in the pit and the crucifixion scenes to the end - for thost that might think I didn't give it a fair hearing...