Atheism and evil

[Resha Caner]

The quote function failed, so I'm having to do this by hand.

The reason I was ignoring them is because though wrong, I didn’t expect any better from them

I do expect better of them, and don't think taking away their free will is a plausible option ... or a good option even if it were plausible. So, one can't ignore variables that affect the outcome.

No that would be just as bad. It would have been better had they

*Adopted them as their own and raise them to worship the right God.
*Or they could have spared some of the adults, took away their weapons; made them slaves; second class citizens, or even equal citizens provided they follow the rules, and worship the God of Israel.
*Or the Israelites could have controlled the land by putting a puppet Government in place that meets the approval of Israel, not allow them to have an army, and become their allies; sorta they way we did Japan after WW-2

Option #3 wasn't feasible at that time. It would be like suggesting Columbus should have taken an airplane to the new world instead of a ship.

Options #1 & #2 were indeed possibilities, and I've brought them up before. If you recall, I mentioned that Maimonides focused on Saul's failure to consider #2. Given what I said about about free will, how long does one try to make that happen? How many centuries of war and bloodshed have to go by before you would admit #2 isn't going to work?

It appears I’ve offended you and I can assure you that was not my intention. I will sometimes make the mistake of forgetting what it is like to have something as sacred as you hold God; attacked, or picked apart as I have been doing during our back and forth. If you bare with me I will attempt to choose my words a little more carefully so they don’t come across so offensive.

Not at all. I've been through too many of these conversations to be offended anymore. Maybe I was pushing too hard. Conversations that just go in circles bore me, and we've reached that point. So I'm taking a different tac by probing your familiarity with different approaches to studying conflict in a narrative.

If you don't think that will yield anything; if you have an approach you think will yield something, please speak up.

 

[Ken-1122]

I do expect better of them, and don't think taking away their free will is a plausible option ... or a good option even if it were plausible. So, one can't ignore variables that affect the outcome.

Perhaps if I saw morality as objective I would blame them as well. I see morality as subjective and these men were just doing what they were taught.

Option #3 wasn't feasible at that time. It would be like suggesting Columbus should have taken an airplane to the new world instead of a ship.

Options #1 & #2 were indeed possibilities, and I've brought them up before. If you recall, I mentioned that Maimonides focused on Saul's failure to consider #2. Given what I said about about free will, how long does one try to make that happen? How many centuries of war and bloodshed have to go by before you would admit #2 isn't going to work?

I believe it would work; but if the children refuse to live peaceful in their new adopted society; then you can kill the destructive ones once they become young adults; but at least they had a fair chance to conform.

Not at all. I've been through too many of these conversations to be offended anymore. Maybe I was pushing too hard. Conversations that just go in circles bore me, and we've reached that point. So I'm taking a different tac by probing your familiarity with different approaches to studying conflict in a narrative.

If you don't think that will yield anything; if you have an approach you think will yield something, please speak up.

My friend; I'm just enjoying the conversation! Feel free to take this conversation in any direction you wish.


Ken

 

[Resha Caner]

Perhaps if I saw morality as objective I would blame them as well. I see morality as subjective and these men were just doing what they were taught.

It sounds more like you're denying their free agency. Being taught something doesn't bind one to that teaching.

I believe it would work; but if the children refuse to live peaceful in their new adopted society; then you can kill the destructive ones once they become young adults; but at least they had a fair chance to conform.

So you're willing to let the blood mount indefinitely until everyone is good? I would think a lot of innocent people are going to die taking that course.

My friend; I'm just enjoying the conversation!

I'm not quite sure why. It's beginning to feel quite stunted to me.

 

[Ken-1122]

It sounds more like you're denying their free agency. Being taught something doesn't bind one to that teaching.

No I'm not denying anyone's free agency, I am simply recognizing the way a person is raised will have an effect on their actions and perceptions of right and wrong.

So you're willing to let the blood mount indefinitely until everyone is good? I would think a lot of innocent people are going to die taking that course.

Blood mount? The only blood mounting will be the Amalikites who break Israel's laws, and if these people are breaking the laws, they are hardly innocent.

I'm not quite sure why. It's beginning to feel quite stunted to me.

Probably because you aren't the only one I am discussing with; I have several people I am debating with at this time so it seems I am getting it from all directions.


Ken

 

[Resha Caner]

Probably because you aren't the only one I am discussing with

Apparently, since your answer about the mounting blood seems to indicate you're not listening.

 

[Ken-1122]

Apparently, since your answer about the mounting blood seems to indicate you're not listening.

I'm listening; I just obviously misunderstood you. What did you mean?

Ken