Atheism (2)

Dave Ellis · Jul 7, 2012

gradyll said:
only difference is that my illustration was not an isolated incidence. (well one was) but the other one was an entire camp of athiests allowing a concert to be played that had a band who sang about burning churches for fun.

And what about your religion that teaches non believers should be burnt for all eternity?

What about the Lord's Resistance Army? What about abortion clinic bombings and the murder of doctors? What about the wilful spread of misinformation about science and the organized effort to keep people ignorant? What about the churches that promote and actively push divisive and hateful messages towards anyone not in their churches?

If you think one poster for a music festival outweighs all the ignorance, immorality and atrocities committed by Christians you're fooling yourself.

But again, I'm not ignorant enough to suggest all Christians back those views. There's plenty of good, decent and moral ones out there as well. Tarring them all with the same brush would be what you're doing to Atheists, and that's why it's wrong. The vast majority of Christians are good people, but there's some really evil, rotten ones in there too. The same goes for the Atheist demographic, and every other demographic.

Still, you don't have a leg to stand on in this argument. I'm perfectly willing to compare historical records of atrocities committed in the name of Christianity vs those committed in the name of Atheism. Bring it on.

createdtoworship · Jul 7, 2012

this is the importance of having a set law of moral standards. Now we can actually judge if having a christian white only rally is Biblical or not. Especially since most the people in the Bible were darker skinned. But how do you say that Burning churches is wrong? What moral law (other than civic) do you follow? Unless you think that burning churches for fun is right?

createdtoworship · Jul 7, 2012

Dave Ellis said:
That's exactly what self-righteous Christians such as yourself are doing every time you talk about any non-believer suffering eternal torment, or trying to paint us as immoral people.

The difference is, I can tell the difference between individual Christians doing immoral acts, and the bulk of Christianity endorsing or doing immoral acts. I recognize the actions of a few are not indicative of the feelings of all.

It's amazing how you can't see through your own bigotry. Labelling an entire demographic of people based on a poster is flat out ignorant.

You want to know why we're on forums like this? To fight ignorance and slander propagated by morons such as yourself.

the Bible says Hell was created for the demons and satan, Not for humans. But we go there by default because we have sinned. There is not one righteous not one, that is why we are saved by Grace.

createdtoworship · Jul 7, 2012

Dave Ellis said:
Then why aren't you Christians out there picketing guys like Fred Phelps? Based on your own logic, that obviously means you fully support his campaign of hate and ignorance.

The president ( a christian )signed the Respect for America’s Fallen Heroes Act in response to Phelps’ protests at military funerals.

Skavau · Jul 7, 2012

gradyll said:
the Bible says Hell was created for the demons and satan, Not for humans. But we go there by default because we have sinned. There is not one righteous not one, that is why we are saved by Grace.

Yes, and to me that is an evil thing to say gradyll.

variant · Jul 7, 2012

gradyll said:
this is the importance of having a set law of moral standards. Now we can actually judge if having a christian white only rally is Biblical or not. Especially since most the people in the Bible were darker skinned. But how do you say that Burning churches is wrong? What moral law (other than civic) do you follow? Unless you think that burning churches for fun is right?

That has worked perfectly well over the eons. Since it's pretty clear which christians are following God and which are not (not to mention all the other religions). I won't even bring up the spanish inquisition or the reformation or american style slavery as it would be unkind to your point.

We are perfectly capable of saying burning churches is wrong without thinking there is a God.

If you didn't see that you wouldn't have brought it up to throw in our faces.

Continue on with your bigotry though, I have little use for you. I'll be headed out.

Skavau · Jul 7, 2012

gradyll said:
this is the importance of having a set law of moral standards. Now we can actually judge if having a christian white only rally is Biblical or not. Especially since most the people in the Bible were darker skinned. But how do you say that Burning churches is wrong? What moral law (other than civic) do you follow? Unless you think that burning churches for fun is right?

It is arson and property damage to someone else's property.

To damage someone else's property is wrong fairly obviously. None of us here would approve of our own property being damaged. We can infer from that we ought not damage other people's properties.

createdtoworship · Jul 7, 2012

Skavau said:
It is arson and property damage to someone else's property.

To damage someone else's property is wrong fairly obviously. None of us here would approve of our own property being damaged. We can infer from that we ought not damage other people's properties.

what about abortion, thats someone elses property. Not so easy huh?

Dave Ellis · Jul 7, 2012

gradyll said:
this is the importance of having a set law of moral standards. Now we can actually judge if having a christian white only rally is Biblical or not. Especially since most the people in the Bible were darker skinned. But how do you say that Burning churches is wrong? What moral law (other than civic) do you follow? Unless you think that burning churches for fun is right?

I never said a white only rally was considered biblical, however it's clear some Christians are doing it.

Again, I should point out because some are doing it, doesn't mean that all are doing it.

Your argument is so hateful and absurd I can't even imagine why you are still trying to argue it.... well apart from the fact your prejudices are more important to you than what we're telling you we actually believe.

Skavau · Jul 7, 2012

gradyll said:
what about abortion, thats someone elses property. Not so easy huh?

Wait, wait, wait.....

So do you concede that my reasons for opposing arson and property damage are good then?

createdtoworship · Jul 7, 2012

Skavau said:
It is arson and property damage to someone else's property.

To damage someone else's property is wrong fairly obviously. None of us here would approve of our own property being damaged. We can infer from that we ought not damage other people's properties.

why aren't you emailing the band telling them that as an athiest you despise their message of hate and wish them to be more loving (like christians)

Skavau · Jul 7, 2012

gradyll said:
why aren't you emailing the band telling them that as an athiest you despise their message of hate and wish them to be more loving (like christians)

What band is this perchance?

I also might ask, do you think constantly linking things like love, morality to Christians and Christians only is a good way to communicate to Christians or do you think you come across as childish and insulting?

Dave Ellis · Jul 7, 2012

gradyll said:
the Bible says Hell was created for the demons and satan, Not for humans. But we go there by default because we have sinned. There is not one righteous not one, that is why we are saved by Grace.

So why did God create Hell, and why does God make it possible for people to go there?

If he's all loving, that would be impossible. It's logically inconsistent to send someone that you love to hell, especially if you created them that way.

Dave Ellis · Jul 7, 2012

gradyll said:
The president ( a christian )signed the Respect for Americas Fallen Heroes Act in response to Phelps protests at military funerals.

Do you believe the Constitution is based on Christian principles?

createdtoworship · Jul 7, 2012

Dave Ellis said:
Do you believe the Constitution is based on Christian principles?

what does that have to do with athiesm?

the content of this thread?

createdtoworship · Jul 7, 2012

Dave Ellis said:
So why did God create Hell, and why does God make it possible for people to go there?

If he's all loving, that would be impossible. It's logically inconsistent to send someone that you love to hell, especially if you created them that way.

what do you mean He created them that way?

Dave Ellis · Jul 7, 2012

gradyll said:
what does that have to do with athiesm?

the content of this thread?

Answer the question. Do you think the Constitution was based on Christian principles.... and yes, it's totally valid to establishing a point I'm trying to make.

createdtoworship · Jul 7, 2012

gradyll said:
yup yup, and so no I am narrow minded that I found two separate occasions of athiests involved or promoting church burning.

now what about the morals again?

oh yeah and the website that has the church burning video is here:

Music |

and remember this is the organizer for all the concerts for athiests at military bases.

this band

Skavau · Jul 7, 2012

gradyll said:
this band

Did the ban Aiden or any of those bands actually encourage church burnings or do it themselves?

Dave Ellis · Jul 7, 2012

gradyll said:
what do you mean He created them that way?

God apparently makes everyone and everything. He therefore made people with the ability to sin, therefore ensuring many of them would. If God didn't want sin, he could have never invented it in the first place.

Even more of a logical conundrum.... If everything God made is Good, and God made Sin, then Sin is Good.... So why is he punishing people for it?

Every sin happened because God made it possible, and every person that God made that would sin, he bears some responsibility for. That's how he made them.

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