At what point does 'Untrue' become 'True'?

[EternalDragon]

Well, that would depend. What was the prayer?
To win the lottery?
Or to have an amputee's legs grow back overnight?

Those would be prayers asked amiss and I don't know of any
Christians that would even pray in that manner. We are in a
dispensation period where we have God's word and no more
signs like that will be given.

Prayer is to be humble and accepting of our position. Not asking
for cars, money or legs to grow back. Rather that we become
stronger without legs and are able to deal with circumstances.
(If the person prayed for legs and got prosthetics that worked
just as well or better, was prayer answered?)

Have you heard this teaching from Jesus about prayer?

Luke 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

 

[Davian]

Until I hear of I-seen-Elvis martyrs, I'll subordinate I-seen-Elvis believers to Christians any day.

And for the record, even if there were martyrs for Elvis, Elvis-spotters have a long way to go before they catch up to Christians.

They would need some pretty hefty things to compare, such as:

1. Their own country.
2. A major empire that tried to suppress them.
3. A major religion who masqueraded as them, yet martyred them.
4. Elvis biography, written independently by at least 40 men over a period of 1500 years, on three continents, in three languages, containing at least 66 independent books, made into a single biography.
5. Time, officially divided into pre-I-seen-Elvis and post-I-seen-Elvis.
6. A national holiday, recognizing Elvis as alive.
7. The attention of atheists, agnostics, yet [supposedly] ignored by scientists, who happen to make "discoveries" that go against everything Elvis ever said or did -- right down to the jots & tittles.

Then, and only then, I might consider a modicum of weight to their martyrs -- (but I doubt it).

You still did not establish why *your* martyrs are important. The existence of (or stories of) martyrs is not an indication of the veracity of religious claims. That they believed something to be true does not make it true.

 

[AV1611VET]

You still did not establish why *your* martyrs are important.

That's because Tertullian beat me to it.

The existence of (or stories of) martyrs is not an indication of the veracity of religious claims.

What martyrs? I asked once before to show me just one I-seen-Elvis martyr, and it's like you guys went 404 or something.

That they believed something to be true does not make it true.

That's why I believe you guys' contention that Kent Hovind, et.al. are liars is bogus.

 

[Davian]

That's because Tertullian beat me to it.

What martyrs? I asked once before to show me just one I-seen-Elvis martyr, and it's like you guys went 404 or something.

I said, You still did not establish why *your* martyrs are important. The existence of (or stories of) martyrs is not an indication of the veracity of religious claims.

That's why I believe you guys' contention that Kent Hovind, et.al. are liars is bogus.

Where have I said that?

 

[Gracchus]

Get in line -- there's a shrewdness of scientists in front of you.

I don't need to get in line. I'm not buying a ticket to ride.

So true theology = true reality? or does "your theology" = "your reality"?

I would define "God" as what is real. So theology is the study of reality. It is science. Just as a landscape can be reflected in a lake, so truth is the reflection of reality in the mind. The reflection is not the landscape. One viewpoint is necessarily incomplete, so our perception of reality is incomplete, and if we are disturbed by fears and wants and attachments, it is roiled by currents, and so it is inaccurate. Religion is debris, dogma that hides reality and faith is wishful thinking that distorts truth. Truth is the limit approached by that reflection as it approaches an accurate and complete representation of reality. Our understanding is always incomplete and at some scale, always inaccurate.

Buddhism is about clearing out the debris and calming the mind. To invoke a different metaphor, Buddhism is a method of travel, not a destination. This is the reason for my Buddhist icon. It is not meant to imply worship of Siddhartha, nor the endless pouring over sutras.

 

[AV1611VET]

I would define "God" as what is real. So theology is...

I stopped here.

I don't need a paragraph when I make a point.

If you can't answer my simple question, don't -- but don't make me suffer through a long explanation as to why you can't (or won't).

 

[Gracchus]

I stopped here.

Of course you did!

I don't need a paragraph when I make a point.

You certainly don't need anything that conflicts with your viewpoint. You make a flat statement, and that is what God must think, or you'll tell him to take a hike. (You said it, yourself!)

If you can't answer my simple question, don't -- but don't make me suffer through a long explanation as to why you can't (or won't).

I answered your question, but I did have to clarify what I thought you meant by it, and try to define what the terms in my answer meant.

Some questions can't be accurately answered by just "yes" or "no". That is a lawyer's demand, and you know what Jesus had to say about lawyers.

To continue, it is not on record that Jesus ever gave an answer to Pilate when asked, "What is truth?". Of course he did say, "I am the way, and the truth..." but we all could say that.

I understand that you are impatient with intellectual difficulties, involved explanations or big words. It must all be black and white with you. You don't even seem to like or admit or have vocabulary for shades of gray, much less the whole spectrum, visible and invisible.