At what point does 'Untrue' become 'True'?

[tansy]

Cogito ergo sum, is a necessary truth.

Ah, but is it a truth necessarily? What if we're only thinking in and as the product of someone else's imagination? We would then only 'be' so long and insofar that we exist in another's mind.

 

[Steve Petersen]

If I am the only person to believe something does that make it true? of course not,
if I can get someone else to believe it, does that make it true? of course not,
if we can get 10,000 people to believe it, does that make it true? of course not,
if we can get 500,000,000 people to believe it, does that make it true? of course not,
not quite............
because from a religious point of view the answer would be: 500,000,000 people can't be wrong...

Some people do not understand that if something is not true, it's not true,
no matter how many people believe that it is.

Spiritual truth is completely malleable since no empirical evidence is sought or required.

 

[hillard]

Spiritual truth is completely malleable since no empirical evidence is sought or required.

I agree and that's the beauty of religions, truth is of secondary importance to a persons belief, any truth we might need can be acquired by faith, my truth may be different to yours but we can both still be happy in our indifference to each others belief, by that I mean it is no concern of mine what you believe be it the same as me or something completely different as with a different religion.
You might not believe mine any more than I might not believe yours even when it comes to Christianity, that's why there are so many different versions of Christianity and as someone said, when it comes to eternity it's every man/woman for themselves because we will all be on our own when it comes to judgement day, all we can hope is that we stuck with the right one.

 

[Gracchus]

Cogito ergo sum, is a necessary truth.

Ah, but is it a truth necessarily? What if we're only thinking in and as the product of someone else's imagination?

Then it becomes: I think that I think, therefore I am. I am, even if I am a product of my imagination.

We would then only 'be' so long and insofar that we exist in another's mind.

Zen story: "Last night I dreamed I was a butterfly. Am I now a butterfly dreaming I am a man?"
Man, butterfly, or product of the divine imagination, what is undeniable to me, although it is unproveable to you, is that I am.

 

[tansy]

Then it becomes: I think that I think, therefore I am. I am, even if I am a product of my imagination.

Zen story: "Last night I dreamed I was a butterfly. Am I now a butterfly dreaming I am a man?"
Man, butterfly, or product of the divine imagination, what is undeniable to me, although it is unproveable to you, is that I am.

Interesting,really, isn't it? What is really real, what is really truth?...it's true that there is also falsehood. Is there a truth/reality beyond all truths and realities?
One can almost disappear down a kind of mental vortex sometimes if one starts trying to figure stuff out LOL Like trying to imagine the extent of the universe...makes one's mind sort of expand and then implode

 

[hillard]

Interesting,really, isn't it? What is really real, what is really truth?...it's true that there is also falsehood. Is there a truth/reality beyond all truths and realities?
One can almost disappear down a kind of mental vortex sometimes if one starts trying to figure stuff out LOL Like trying to imagine the extent of the universe...makes one's mind sort of expand and then implode

Stick a pin in your leg, bite your tongue or punch a concrete wall and the truth will jump right out at you.

 

[jayem]

that's the beauty of religions, truth is of secondary importance to a persons belief...my truth may be different to yours

You are absolutely correct, but it's not limited to religion. The truth of indisputable historical events is also of secondary importance to a person's beliefs. No one will deny that the Twin Towers collapsed on Sept. 11, 2001. And despite overwhelming scientific evidence of what caused it, there are some who persist in believing a contrived alternative explanation that better conforms to their preconceived notions. Same with the JFK assassination. I guess it's just human nature. But it's somewhat disconcerting, and rather sad, that people will let their subjective biases override unequivocal objective data.

 

[tansy]

Stick a pin in your leg, bite your tongue or punch a concrete wall and the truth will jump right out at you.

Yeah LOL - life often hurts like hell...that's true

 

[marktheblake]

Some people do not understand that if something is not true, it's not true, no matter how many people believe that it is.

I agree, those evolutionists really need to understand this.

 

[Delphiki]

I agree, those evolutionists really need to understand this.

Do you have anything useful and not childish to say for a rebuttal or do all your arguments consist of different ways to say "I'm right, you're wrong" without ever showing how or why you think so?

 

[Psudopod]

I agree, those evolutionists really need to understand this.

Evolution is held up by evidence, not beliefs.

 

[marktheblake]

Do you have anything usefu

Simply pointing out that the post i referred to applies equally to both sides of the debate.

without ever showing how or why you think so?

the post i responded never showed why either, and was just as useless

 

[sandwiches]

I agree and that's the beauty of religions, truth is of secondary importance to a persons belief, any truth we might need can be acquired by faith, my truth may be different to yours but we can both still be happy in our indifference to each others belief, by that I mean it is no concern of mine what you believe be it the same as me or something completely different as with a different religion.
You might not believe mine any more than I might not believe yours even when it comes to Christianity, that's why there are so many different versions of Christianity and as someone said, when it comes to eternity it's every man/woman for themselves because we will all be on our own when it comes to judgement day, all we can hope is that we stuck with the right one.

Your last sentence contradicts your first one. First you say that truth is not important but on your last sentence you basically say let's hope that we made the right choice.

So, knowing the truth is extremely important as it might, as your stated, dictate whether you end up in peace and joy or in torment and pain for all eternity. This is why the truth matters. Because your choices have consequences in life and, if Christians are right, they also matter in death.

 

[sandwiches]

I agree, those evolutionists really need to understand this.

Everyone needs to understand that. You more than most, I'm afraid.

 

[marktheblake]

Simply pointing out that the post i referred to applies equally to both sides of the debate.

Everyone needs to understand that.

Already said that - you are tooo slow.

 

[hillard]

So, knowing the truth is extremely important as it might, as your stated, dictate whether you end up in peace and joy or in torment and pain for all eternity. This is why the truth matters. Because your choices have consequences in life and, if Christians are right, they also matter in death.

How can the truth be 'extremely important' when no one knows what the truth is? all can we ever have is 'hope'.

 

[marktheblake]

How can the truth be 'extremely important' when no one knows what the truth is?

How do you know that is true.

 

[sandwiches]

How can the truth be 'extremely important' when no one knows what the truth is? all can we ever have is 'hope'.

I am saying that IF where we end up for all eternity is determined by our beliefs, then knowing what the truth is to be able to believe it is extremely important. If we'll all end up in the same place regardless of what we think the truth is, then the truth is not important.

 

[hillard]

I am saying that IF where we end up for all eternity is determined by our beliefs, then knowing what the truth is to be able to believe it is extremely important. If we'll all end up in the same place regardless of what we think the truth is, then the truth is not important.

If the truth is unobtainable (as it is) it must surly be regarded as being of no consequence.

 

[Deadbolt]

You really shouldn't play these semantic games. Creationists believe words have magical power. To his way of thinking it follows that getting the answer he wants = truth = win.