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Imo, The Lord calls everyone, but not all of us are willing to go through the narrow gate.Although I don’t actually believe in predestination, there are scriptures suggesting it, so...
Salvation BY FAITH, and NOT by works (which are the natural fruit if BEING Born Again by FAITH. (Eph 2:8,9)Out of pure curiosity, what do you think Luther believed and taught?
-CryptoLutheran
Salvation BY FAITH, and NOT by works (which are the natural fruit if BEING Born Again by FAITH. (Eph 2:8,9)
And what do you think that means?
For example, how does one get faith?
God does not offer salvation to anyone. He preaches (announces) the salvation of believers. Those who choose to believe don't believe or they would not need to choose. Salvation is a supernatural experience that causes the saved to believe.
How do you reconcile the concept of a God who is the very embodiment of both justice and love to a god who will specifically create billions upon billions of souls for the SOLE PURPOSE of condemning them to an eternity of suffering? Do you truly believe it is justice by ANY definition to create a life for the purpose of everlasting torture? How do you even justify such a horrendous belief? It's abusive.
That's not the gospel. That's not GOOD news. That's not the character of a just, loving, and merciful God who seeks to restore creation, who so loved the WORLD that he would do anything, even suffer and experience the consequences of sin, to demonstrate just how much love he has for the salvation of all people.
His love is for all. His grace is for all. Over and over he reaches out his hand and hopes with all his heart that we choose to take it.
God does not offer salvation to anyone. He preaches (announces) the salvation of believers. Those who choose to believe don't believe or they would not need to choose. Salvation is a supernatural experience that causes the saved to believe.
Is there consensus on what the Gospel is?
Yeah, I recall reading those, would have given a totally different conclusion than the finalized canon.
The two severest cases of discipline in the apostolic church were the fearful punishment of Ananias and Sapphira by Peter for falsehood and hypocrisy in the church of Jerusalem in the days of her first love,2 and the excommunication of a member of the Corinthian congregation by Paul for adultery and incest.3 The latter case affords also an instance of restoration.4
4; “But if any have caused grief, he hath not grieved me, but in part: that I may not overcharge you all. Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many. So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow. Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him. For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things. To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;” 2 Corinthians 2:5–10 (KJV 1900)
Schaff, P., & Schaff, D. S. (1910). History of the Christian church (Vol. 1, p. 503). New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons.
Nice work, I think I'll copy it. But Ephesus 431 condemned Pelagianism as heresy.
What`s hard to reconcile? The Bible says the devil is the Father of the lost. People who don`t want to accept the existence of tares always seem to point fingers at God instead of accepting what the Bible says about it.
So you're suggesting that it wasn't God who created all of those people for the sole purpose of everlasting torture, but rather the devil who created them? You're giving an awful lot of power to the devil.
No need to put words in my mouth. I didn`t say a word about the devil creating nor do I give him any power. I`m suggesting that the Bible says the devil is the father of sinners. I`m also suggesting that it isn`t right to blame God for the lost.
I don't at all blame God for those who choose not to take him up on his offer of grace, who choose to remain separated from him.
God would only be at fault if the perversion of the gospel (GOOD news) known as Calvinism is true, that God specifically, intentionally, and willfully created billions of people for the sole purpose of condemning them to eternal torture and suffering. Can't blame the devil for something the devil didn't do.
“For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life. Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him." (John 3:16-17 emphasis mine)
I'm not sure what part of "everyone" Calvinists can't seem to understand.
That's not the definition of "the gospel" you were using in post #254.The gospel is the historical accounts of Jesus Christ’s sacrifice to save humanity. Hence the term “the good news”.
Well, I`m not a Calvinist but let me ask you one question.
Do you believe God is Omniscient?
Right. Great post. Thanks!Yes, but I also believe that God is capable of forgetting...such as when he chooses to blot out our sin and not even remember it. What you're probably getting at here is something like, "God already knows everything we're going to do anyway, so he just goes ahead and gets all the torture and condemning done with before all those billions of people ever exist in the first place." But if such were the case, then God could easily also NOT choose to create all those billions of people and therefore completely and mercifully avoid the entire issue.
Just because God has the power of omniscience doesn't necessarily mean he always chooses to wield it.
It's also very possible that due to his omniscience that he has done exactly that and has created not a single human being that would ever choose to reject him and therefore God ultimately saves everyone.
Here's the thing. People interpret the scriptures in the bible in various ways and there is never going to be universal agreement before the full and complete realization of God's kingdom, but I do know this. If an interpretation completely goes against the character of God and is in opposition to the GOOD news, then there is something deeply wrong with it.
God is more loving, more just, more merciful, more good than every human being who has ever existed upon the earth COMBINED (with the exception of Christ, of course, who is God), and if even a moderately sinful human being wouldn't even consider the possibility of torturing most of their own children for an ETERNITY simply for being born through no choice of their own into a fallen world, then would you truly and sincerely believe that a God who is PERFECT at love, justice, mercy, compassion, kindness, and goodness would treat his children that way when he could easily, through omniscience, choose to just never create them?
Are you saved when you're
Called
Called and Chosen
Called, Chosen and Faithful
Some believe once saved always saved, with some scripture to suggest this. Some believe they can lose salvation, with some scripture to suggests this. I do not wish to argue, debate over this, just your thoughts on the above question, whichever side you're on.
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him
We no longer look to be served. We look to serve and give our lives for others. No longer fight for privilege, influence and status. We esteem others better than ourselves and put their interests above our own.
Peace be with all those in the body of Christ
Yes, but I also believe that God is capable of forgetting...such as when he chooses to blot out our sin and not even remember it. What you're probably getting at here is something like, "God already knows everything we're going to do anyway, so he just goes ahead and gets all the torture and condemning done with before all those billions of people ever exist in the first place." But if such were the case, then God could easily also NOT choose to create all those billions of people and therefore completely and mercifully avoid the entire issue.
Just because God has the power of omniscience doesn't necessarily mean he always chooses to wield it.
It's also very possible that due to his omniscience that he has done exactly that and has created not a single human being that would ever choose to reject him and therefore God ultimately saves everyone.
Here's the thing. People interpret the scriptures in the bible in various ways and there is never going to be universal agreement before the full and complete realization of God's kingdom, but I do know this. If an interpretation completely goes against the character of God and is in opposition to the GOOD news, then there is something deeply wrong with it.
God is more loving, more just, more merciful, more good than every human being who has ever existed upon the earth COMBINED (with the exception of Christ, of course, who is God), and if even a moderately sinful human being wouldn't even consider the possibility of torturing most of their own children for an ETERNITY simply for being born through no choice of their own into a fallen world, then would you truly and sincerely believe that a God who is PERFECT at love, justice, mercy, compassion, kindness, and goodness would treat his children that way when he could easily, through omniscience, choose to just never create them?
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