At Crossroads -- Cf's Vision Discussion Thread (2) - Please Vote in Poll Thread

Epiphanygirl · Jul 29, 2007

Superior this, superior that.............dude, it not about that..........for pete's sake........but you already know that.
If we didn't believe in our Christian faith...but were Pagans, and held fast to what they believed and protected it, I guess you'd call that "superior attitude" as well?
I am not superior, but the Lord is, yes, my God is superior to all the other gods, he is the "I Am" the only!

Faith In God · Jul 29, 2007

MartinM said:
I disagree. If the rules say 'trumpet players only,' fine. Anyone has a right to set up a private forum and admit whomever they choose. However, if the rules say that everyone is allowed in, everyone should be treated equally.

A sax player will not, and should not, be treated the same as trumpet players on a trumpet players' forum: he simply will not be able to contribute to (or GAIN anything from) the forum! Logically, he is a guest. If he "converts", and has something to contribute (or something to gain, ie a new trumpet player, or someone looking into it), he has more clout and justification in being there.

Beastt · Jul 29, 2007

intricatic said:
It has nothing to do with equal footing, it has to do with governance and structure of a Christian ministry.

Where is it written that a Christian ministry should adhere to principles of elitism, class-structure, the infamous B-word and self-proclaimed superiority?

intricatic · Jul 29, 2007

Beastt said:
Where is it written that a Christian ministry should adhere to principles of elitism, class-structure, the infamous B-word and self-proclaimed superiority?

Who said that's how it's being presented? Please stop misinterpreting things and redefining words to fit your presuppositions, kthnx.

Faith In God · Jul 29, 2007

intricatic said:
Nobody's talking about running on concepts of elitism, etc... A trumpet player is no better than a saxaphone player.

Careful who yer talking to. >_>

Kidding.

RedTulipMom · Jul 29, 2007

just for those that didnt know..erwin has made another announcement and is asking for everyones opinions on what an option 3 would look like..for those that didnt like option 1 or 2. So heres your chance to say what you like or dislike about the 7-7-7 changes. But please dont bring debate into that announcement..that way erwin can read all our actual thoughts and not us fighting..go here
http://www.christianforums.com/t5794084-what-would-option-3-look-like.html

JGG · Jul 29, 2007

Faith In God said:
A sax player will not, and should not, be treated the same as trumpet players on a trumpet players' forum: he simply will not be able to contribute to (or GAIN anything from) the forum! Logically, he is a guest. If he "converts", and has something to contribute (or something to gain, ie a new trumpet player, or someone looking into it), he has more clout and justification in being there.

So, why do you think that the "sax players" would even be in the "trumpet players'" forum?

MartinM · Jul 29, 2007

Faith In God said:
A sax player will not, and should not, be treated the same as trumpet players on a trumpet players' forum: he simply will not be able to contribute to (or GAIN anything from) the forum! Logically, he is a guest. If he "converts", and has something to contribute (or something to gain, ie a new trumpet player, or someone looking into it), he has more clout and justification in being there.

Repeating yourself isn't going to make your case. Try adding some justification.

Timothy · Jul 29, 2007

JGG said:
So, why do you think that the "sax players" would even be in the "trumpet players'" forum?

General musician fellowship and gossip.

On the same note, we have an entire section dedicated to the equivalent, under the Friendship team banner.

Epiphanygirl · Jul 29, 2007

intricatic said:
Who said that's how it's being presented? Please stop misinterpreting things and redefining words to fit your presuppositions, kthnx.

Psst, but we're superior, at least he thinks that we think we are <rolls eyes>
Has flashes of Mother superior from high school..............weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Beastt · Jul 29, 2007

Faith In God said:
A sax player will not, and should not, be treated the same as trumpet players on a trumpet players' forum: he simply will not be able to contribute to (or GAIN anything from) the forum! Logically, he is a guest. If he "converts", and has something to contribute (or something to gain, ie a new trumpet player, or someone looking into it), he has more clout and justification in being there.

Do trumpet players pretend to adhere to a doctrine of loving others, showing compassion, equality and tolerance while seeing themselves as superior, of greater entitlement and exclusivity?

If trumpet players see themselves as superior it's simply a false sense of superiority. When Christians do it it's compounded by hypocrisy because it violates everything they claim to hold as a Christian value.

Epiphanygirl · Jul 29, 2007

JGG said:
So, why do you think that the "sax players" would even be in the "trumpet players'" forum?

To stir the pot?

Faith In God · Jul 29, 2007

JGG said:
So, why do you think that the "sax players" would even be in the "trumpet players'" forum?

Exactly.

When they come to the forum, they expect that they don't have much going for them, as far as what the forum has to offer.

(Do you realize I'm directly comparing sax players visiting TH.com to atheists here?)
If a particular sax player finds something of interest, he can utilize the forum, of course. But until he has something to do with trumpet playing, he doesn't have much to do with that forum. And he would expect that. So maybe he's there to view trumpet players and compare the methods there with his own methods. Or maybe he's thinking about taking it up. Or maybe he used to play trumpet and wants to come back. Or maybe he used to play trumpet and wants to talk about the struggles he had and find out what went wrong. Or maybe he wants to bash trumpet players (he wouldn't last long, then). Maybe he wants to argue about the superiority of his Instrument. There's a general sub-forum for extra-trumpet related things. The opportunity is there, but his expectations should not be amazingly high.

Spherical Time · Jul 29, 2007

intricatic said:
Well, some people start off with the presupposition of secular governance being a prized trait within a Christian community, for some bizarre reason, and that effects every strain of what those people believe should be an effective and non-abusive governance.

Sorry for coming back to this comment, but CF is always going to have secular governance.

Erwin is not a priest, and the board is owned by his secular corporation.

He may be trying to foster a Christian Community, but that doesn't make this a church.

JGG · Jul 29, 2007

SirTimothy said:
General musician fellowship and gossip.

But it wouldn't be fellowship, would it? Fellowship suggests that we're the same, and as was just pointed out, atheists are not to be treated the same as Christians.

Timothy · Jul 29, 2007

JGG said:
But it wouldn't be fellowship, would it? Fellowship suggests that we're the same, and as was just pointed out, atheists are not to be treated the same as Christians.

No. Fellowship suggests we share some common attributes that can be talked about, not that we're the same.

Beastt · Jul 29, 2007

Epiphanygirl said:
Superior this, superior that.............dude, it not about that..........for pete's sake........but you already know that.
If we didn't believe in our Christian faith...but were Pagans, and held fast to what they believed and protected it, I guess you'd call that "superior attitude" as well?
I am not superior, but the Lord is, yes, my God is superior to all the other gods, he is the "I Am" the only!

You don't have to like this but as long as you can't refute it, (and you can't because it's a simple fact), you just have to accept that when you claim things for yourself that you won't allow others to have, you're painting yourself as being more worthy and entitled. You're certainly selecting yourself as being superior.

If that's what the Christian God is all about then the whole of mankind will fare far better if they distance themselves from him as much as possible. That kind of behavior and thinking has never lead to anything but cruelty and suffering.

Beastt · Jul 29, 2007

SirTimothy said:
No. Fellowship suggests we share some common attributes that can be talked about, not that we're the same.

You're suggesting fellowship devoid of equality?

Timothy · Jul 29, 2007

Beastt said:
You don't have to like this but as long as you can't refute it, (and there's no reason for you to because it's my subjective opinion), you just have to accept that when you claim things for yourself that you won't allow others to have, you're painting yourself as being more worthy and entitled. You're certainly selecting yourself as being superior.

If that's what the Christian God is all about then the whole of mankind will fare far better if they distance themselves from him as much as possible. That kind of behavior and thinking has never lead to anything but cruelty and suffering.

That's better.

Faith In God · Jul 29, 2007

MartinM said:
Repeating yourself isn't going to make your case. Try adding some justification.

I have been for some time.

Beastt said:
Do trumpet players pretend to adhere to a doctrine of loving others, showing compassion, equality and tolerance while seeing themselves as superior, of greater entitlement and exclusivity?

No. We just see ourselves as superior and of greater entitlement. *nods*

...
Seriously, that's a personal thing. And no amount of forum-alteration could change a personal trumpet's attitude.

If trumpet players see themselves as superior it's simply a false sense of superiority. When Christians do it it's compounded by hypocrisy because it violates everything they claim to hold as a Christian value.

True.
But that has nothing to do with changing this forum: only its people.
Here is the legitimate Christian attitude, for those interested:
Is a person about to jump out of a plane, superior because he is wearing a parachute?
No. But he's better-off in the end than the person who isn't.

He needs an attitude adjustment if he thinks he's superior to the guy who's about to jump without a 'chute. But he'd sure as heck (no pun intended) try to convince the guy next to him that he needs a chute on to survive.

Epiphanygirl said:
To stir the pot?

We do enough of that without outside influence, thank you.

At Crossroads -- Cf's Vision Discussion Thread (2) - Please Vote in Poll Thread

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