At Crossroads -- Cf's Vision Discussion Thread (2) - Please Vote in Poll Thread

sparklecat · Aug 2, 2007

spsucj said:
Probably not, but regardless, me going to an Atheist forum would require having certain motivations.

What's an Atheist's motivation for coming to CF?

If he/she wants to argue, then go away; nobody wants to argue. If he/she wants to learn about Christ, then I'd welcome you in open arms.

Again, what are your motivations?

Did you want mine specifically, or the motivations of atheists in general? If it's the latter, there's a thread in GA with many posts on the subject (which unfortunately seems to be missing at present), but suffice to say, people have many different reasons.

If it's the former, the main reason I'm here is to promote Christian/atheist harmony. We have to live together in this world, and the negative stereotypes we tend to have about each other doesn't help things much. I can't do much about the stereotypes of Christians (besides educating myself by spending time with them), but I can try to show Christians that they don't need to fear or hate us just because we don't believe like they do. Too many people seem to think that we want to stop them from believing or practicing their faith when all we want is equal rights.

stranger · Aug 2, 2007

sparklecat said:
I don't think that the hurt feelings of the non-Christians was really the primary reason for these changes, anyway

A loving person whose feeling are hurt by unloving people who purport to be [loving] christians is exactly what this poll is about...

The poll is brought about by those who want to say [unlovingly] that NOW is the time to decide who are chrsitians and who are not... totally ignoring that some will lose their faith before Jesus comes and some will be converted...

This is NOT the time to close the doors , nor is it even valid for sinners to judge the beliefes of others and exclude them from the site when christianiy itself cannot say who are christians and whoare not [being deeply divided on 5this, unlike God !!]

Also Jesus very task was to bring unbelievers into belief ,a nd he instructed hias followers to do the same, so that says a great deal about those who engineered this faulted poll to give them power to exclude by their rules, by the rules of sinners against Jesus' words directly...

anyone who is loving can please God and be taken [as with Enoch for instance], it requires oly to be loving, not to declare oneself a member of divided [thus untrue to the one truth of God] christianity...

Humility is a very valuable thing and it is completely lacking in those who engineered this false poll... this not the day of judgment, nor the day of Jess' return, and Jesus only trusts saints with judgment, NOT SINNERS !!!

Lisa0315 · Aug 2, 2007

sparklecat said:
Did you want mine specifically, or the motivations of atheists in general? If it's the latter, there's a thread in GA with many posts on the subject (which unfortunately seems to be missing at present), but suffice to say, people have many different reasons.

If it's the former, the main reason I'm here is to promote Christian/atheist harmony. We have to live together in this world, and the negative stereotypes we tend to have about each other doesn't help things much. I can't do much about the stereotypes of Christians (besides educating myself by spending time with them), but I can try to show Christians that they don't need to fear or hate us just because we don't believe like they do. Too many people seem to think that we want to stop them from believing or practicing their faith when all we want is equal rights.

Well, Christians do not have anything to fear from atheists on this site. However, atheists have done some very powerful things in this country that are very anti-Christian, at least from our perspective. To name a few, removing prayer from schools, the threat to the cross at Mt. Soledad, the 10C debate, and so on.

There is a reason for it OUTSIDE of these forums. However, the way I see it is that if perhaps we can on an individual level open each others hearts and minds, then perhaps, this will spread to outside of the forum as well.

Lisa

Angel4Truth · Aug 2, 2007

We were tolerated. Not welcomed.

When you receive Christ i will personally welcome you into the body of Christ.

Fact is though that as long as you remain an unbeliever you cannot by any stretch of the imagination be a member of that body but only a visitor. Why you want to be a voting rule making member concerning the body of Christ that you are not part of and yet demand to be is beyond me.

Isnt tolerance the battle cry of those who arent believers here? You already have that because you are here.

There can no more be equality between believers and unbeleivers than there can be equality between a fireman and a doctor. I wouldnt want a doctor putting out a fire in my home any more than I would want a fireman to perform an appendectomy on me. And it has NOTHING to do with them as people but everything to do about being equipped for whats required.

suzybeezy · Aug 2, 2007

sparklecat said:
Yes, we did. A place with maybe a dozen regular Christian posters, where we'd also get the occasional member who'd stop by to write a thread or six telling us we were wrong (and frequently, that we were fools and swine as well), and then disappear.

Of course, there were also the few Christian 'events' we were invited to in the form of fellowship threads in the CO areas and threads when people recalled that they could put in [OPEN] tags and it might be nice to do so.

We were tolerated. Not welcomed.

This is 100% incorrect!!!! I won't stand by and allow such inaccuracies to be spread. Debate forums main problem was there was no respect for Christians or christian beliefs. The non-christians I encountered daily were not open to fellowship nor did very many want to gain understanding of Christianity - this is based on my experience and is my opinion. From my point of view, I seen alot of effort to sway Christians and flame their beliefs. (This is somewhat a generalization, but its based on what I witnessed daily for over a year).

Maybe that's why Erwin is more optomistic then I am, as I already seen alot of this concept played out in the debate section and I seen how it didn't and doesn't work well.

Lisa0315 · Aug 2, 2007

suzybeezy said:
This is 100% incorrect!!!! I won't stand by and allow such inaccuracies to be spread. Debate forums main problem was there was no respect for Christians or christian beliefs. The non-christians I encountered daily were not open to fellowship nor did very many want to gain understanding of Christianity - this is based on my experience and is my opinion. From my point of view, I seen alot of effort to sway Christians and flame their beliefs. (This is somewhat a generalization, but its based on what I witnessed daily for over a year).

Maybe that's why Erwin is more optomistic then I am, as I already seen alot of this concept played out in the debate section and I seen how it didn't and doesn't work well.

Strange, I never had that problem in debate. If a rare atheist flamed me, I had half a dozen atheists taking up for my right to believe as I saw fit. I personally think it is all about attitude when entering debate. If you are there for discussion and your attitude is not negative, then, there is no problem. A sense of humor doesn't hurt either.

Lisa

Angel4Truth · Aug 2, 2007

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to suzybeezy again.

Angel4Truth · Aug 2, 2007

Lisa were you a debate mod? I agree with suzy

Seeker of the Truth · Aug 2, 2007

Angel4Truth said:
When you receive Christ i will personally welcome you into the body of Christ.[/FONT]

Fact is though that as long as you remain an unbeliever you cannot by any stretch of the imagination be a member of that body but only a visitor. Why you want to be a voting rule making member concerning the body of Christ that you are not part of and yet demand to be is beyond me.

Isnt tolerance the battle cry of those who arent believers here? You already have that because you are here.

There can no more be equality between believers and unbeleivers than there can be equality between a fireman and a doctor. I wouldnt want a doctor putting out a fire in my home any more than I would want a fireman to perform an appendectomy on me. And it has NOTHING to do with them as people but everything to do about being equipped for whats required.

Amen!

Finally, someone said it.

SunMessenger · Aug 2, 2007

Angel4Truth said:
When you receive Christ i will personally welcome you into the body of Christ.[/FONT]

Fact is though that as long as you remain an unbeliever you cannot by any stretch of the imagination be a member of that body but only a visitor. Why you want to be a voting rule making member concerning the body of Christ that you are not part of and yet demand to be is beyond me.

Isnt tolerance the battle cry of those who arent believers here? You already have that because you are here.

There can no more be equality between believers and unbeleivers than there can be equality between a fireman and a doctor. I wouldnt want a doctor putting out a fire in my home any more than I would want a fireman to perform an appendectomy on me. And it has NOTHING to do with them as people but everything to do about being equipped for whats required.

Amen

Blackness · Aug 2, 2007

Didn't Jesus hang around people labeled as sinners? Looks like some Christians are proving once again how unlike their own leader they can be.

Angel4Truth · Aug 2, 2007

Are we in the same thread here leon? Yes so im hangin out with you here and CF has always had a place you could "hang out" with believers called fellowship forums. There is outreach and debate forums and the support forums and armory and SS fellowship too. Hardly a ghetto all those places too.

Now if you want a real comparison - show me where Jesus said that those who do not believe in Him will equally share the kingdom of heaven.

Btw before its expressed the pharisees didnt believe in him and the sinners he hung out with did believe in Him and he told them to go and sin no more.

sparklecat · Aug 2, 2007

I am not saying you have to welcome us. I'm saying that you shouldn't claim to be welcoming us, rather than shunning us, when you weren't.

Suzy, I'm aware of your opinions on the area you moderated. I believe most of the long-term participants in GA would agree with my assessment. Part of the disparity in how we view it may be because we're thinking of different times, though - as you said, you were in there for a year fairly recently, and CF has been becoming more restrictive over time, which has made GA less pleasant. In the past, we had a lot more fellowship, though that's not to say it wasn't there at all more recently.

SunMessenger · Aug 2, 2007

Because a third option was entered into the mix the vote must be taken again with the third option added to the ballot in a more detailed form . This addition of option three after a question with only two options was already up for vote lacks quite a bit in the way of reflecting the true feelings here. Plus what about the ones who have left. I found this pole by accident and how do we know the vote is even fair and that sock accounts are not voting multiple times? This pole needs some work but it is a good start. More is needed. A new one is needed with all the options included before any final determination can be made...

Sun

WalksWithChrist · Aug 2, 2007

SunMessenger said:
For some reason the second link in your quote is truncated so I am posting it here again if you are interested. I think this thread is very important too.

Here...

http://www.christianforums.com/t5800270-should-erwin-sell-cf-if-he-has-no-time-to-run-cf-.html

Thanks! I checked them out and turns out I had already looked at them lol

We have too many related threads!!!
Very cornfuzing.

MeekOne said:
If this is indeed true, then Erwin should have changed the apologetics and debate forum somehow. If this is how you all were treated, then it IS wrong, and that area should have been improved. I do not believe the entire website should be uprooted and thrown into chaos because of a few who hurt your feelings. I'm sorry that they hurt your feelings, really I am.

This is a good post for me to bounce some thoughts off of. I had the distinct feeling that before 777 all we *really* needed was strong leadership to get CF on course. Well, Erwin did step in...but he chose to yank out the backbone and hastily put in a new one. I'm not knocking the new system...I in fact think we need to give it a chance.

BUT! (there's always a but...lol) Since we're talking about vision in this thread, let's talk vision. Whatever system we have we need to commit to it. We did NOT commit (including Erwin on this) to the old system that in my opinion really just needed some tweaking and actual enforcement and accountability.

Let's not make the same mistake with the new system.

Blackness · Aug 2, 2007

We non-believers have been here for a while, why are some people crying about it now?

Angel4Truth · Aug 2, 2007

I am not saying you have to welcome us. I'm saying that you shouldn't claim to be welcoming us, rather than shunning us, when you weren't.

When did I shun you and tell you you were not welcome at CF sparkle?

Being honest and stating that you arent a believer and are not equipped in my opinion to judge those inside the church doesnt mean i do not welcome you being here at CF but I can only welcome you as a visiting guest the same as I would welcome you in my local church and I would object just the same too if you started demanding to be thought equally a member and have the same rights in that church as the believers there when you arent in the body of Christ.

I also more then welcome you to join the body of Christ and the price of membership in that body has already been paid for you by Jesus Christ.

If you wont receive your membership though according to the terms of membership its not because the christians here will not welcome you to be a member of the body but its because we cannot welcome you into a body you reject.

Seeker of the Truth · Aug 2, 2007

LeonTrotsky said:
We non-believers have been here for a while, why are some people crying about it now?

Because there are non-believers (such as yourself) attacking our beliefs, when you should be defending your own.

That's my reason.

Blackness · Aug 2, 2007

spsucj said:
Because there are non-believers (such as yourself) attacking our beliefs, when you should be defending your own.

That's my reason.

What is there to defend about Agnosticism? I really don't follow any doctrine so I see no need to attempt to prove myself. Nor do I claim to know all the answers.

karen freeinchristman · Aug 2, 2007

SunMessenger said:
Because a third option was entered into the mix the vote must be taken again with the third option added to the ballot in a more detailed form . This addition of option three after a question with only two options was already up for vote lacks quite a bit in the way of reflecting the true feelings here. Plus what about the ones who have left. I found this pole by accident and how do we know the vote is even fair and that sock accounts are not voting multiple times? This pole needs some work but it is a good start. More is needed. A new one is needed with all the options included before any final determination can be made...

Sun

At Crossroads -- Cf's Vision Discussion Thread (2) - Please Vote in Poll Thread

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