Astral Projection, Remote Viewing,Ley Lines

[Nathan David]

And as a matter of fact Astral Projection has even been scientifically proven.

Has it, now. Got a link for this amazing claim?

 

[Nightstrike]

no, not illusionry.
Magic, Sorcery of a sort.
the black arts.

 

[unbound]

I appreciated everyones replies here. One of the main reasons I asked about the astral travel/freemasonry connection, is I noticed the masons seem to delight in symbols, and one of the symbols they use alot is a triangle, or pyramid. I see this alot on belt buckles and also emblems on the back of cars. Now it seems to me the pyramid may hold some significance or power of a sort, because I once was talking with a native american which used lots of drugs. He pulled a round medallion out of his pocket which had a triangle on it and said to me "Ive been there". Thinking he was strange, I didnt ask him to elaborate. Since then, Ive always wondered what he meant, but its things like this that I tend to relate . Does the pyramid represent some sort of other "plane"?

 

[engiin]

Does the pyramid represent some sort of other "plane"?

Triangle is spirit. Pyramid is fire. The Pyramid also represents the general concept of a timecycle, in particular reincarnation. The truncated pyramid is the "jealous cube" and is an altar to the jealous god, the god of the old testament, or the god of the fifth day in the tibetan buddhist system, he is the god of the earth.


"Therefore said we, that it shall be, when they should so
say to us or to our generations in time to come,

THAT WE MAY SAY AGAIN, BEHOLD THE PATTERN OF THE ALTAR

of the LORD, which our fathers made, not for burnt offerings, nor for sacrifices; but it is a witness between us and you." Joshua|22:28

The only altar with the same distinctive "pattern" we can find all across the earth, that enable us "to say again" to our generations to come (a structure that can last through time, so must have large blocks of stone etc..) is the pyramids, which are found all over the earth.

 

[Rev Wayne]

I found a brand new logo for you:

Just thought you might want an all-inclusive description for your posts.

 

[engiin]

I found a brand new logo for you:
Just thought you might want an all-inclusive description for your posts.

Strength is wisdom, wisdom is strength.

 

[DCP 32° K.T]

Hey Mr. Mason, Why is it that Morals and Dogma (by pike)says different.

Show me where it says that Astral projection is the goal of Freemasonry or that drugs are used in the rituals of Freemasonry. You claim to have read Morals and Dogma. Now demonstrate to us that you actually have read it.

Why is it that pike says Lucifer is the light?

He doesn't. You have misread Pike. What he said, quoting Eliphas Levi, was that Lucifer was a strange name for a spirit of darkness and sarcastically states that lucifer takes the light and blinds feeble, selfish souls with its splendor. Even the Bible is clear that Ol' Scratch will tell the truth if it will serve his nefarious purposes. Read all of Genesis 3 and see that the serpent lied once and told the truth twice to get Adam and Eve to fall. Consider also the following from the context of Pike's text:

The Apocalypse is ... the Apotheosis of that Sublime Faith which aspires to God alone and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer. (Morals and Dogma, 321)
​

why is it that alestair crowely pretty much says lucifer is god? *Alistair crowley was a 33rd degree mason.

Who cares what Crowley said? I don't. He is of no importance to Masonry, especially considering that he belonged to an unrecognized and illigitimate 'masonic' organization. He received his 33° from an illigitimate and unauthorized Supreme Council, and formed his own forms of 'masonry' by taking our rituals and twisting them to his own ends, even going so far as to state in letters that his own ritual "wipes its ****" (his words) with the 33° rituals of authorized Supreme Councils that refused to recognize him as a legitimate Mason.

Why else does it say that masonry is a march towards the LIGHT.

It does not really say anything about marching toward the light. Pike does speak about being on a journey, and so forth, in some places. And so it is with anyone who seeks truth--no matter where it may be found.

You cannot fool the people who allready know. I have read parts of teh book, and I am not stupid.

That's your problem, right there. You have read parts of the book, most likely those portions that have been posted out of context on various anti-masonic websites. Try reading the entire book from beginning to end, aloud if necessary, and try to grasp what it was that Pike was trying to say to his readers. Also, keep in mind that Morals and Dogma is only part of the story, as it were. It consists of the full lectures of the Scottish Rite Degree rituals of the Southern Jurisdiction of the USA. If you do not participate in the rituals, how will you understand the lectures by themselves? If you still have trouble understanding the text and the stated purposes of the book, try reading the preface over and over and try reading other texts that form commentary upon Morals and Dogma. If you would like, I can name the titles to assist you.

Also People, DO not be dedieved by this man, I am not trying to slander him.

You are not trying to slander me but you are in so many words calling me a liar. How is that not libel and slander? Also, since it is in print, it is libel. I do not deal in lies. I take my vows and obligations seriously.

Truth, a Mason is early told, is a Divine attribute and the foundation of every virtue; and frankness, reliability, sincerity, straightforwardness, plain-dealing, are but different modes in which Truth develops itself. The dead, the absent, the innocent, and those who trust him, no Mason will deceive willingly. (Morals and Dogma, 184)




​

However you know exactly what I mean, Masonry is evil,...

Masonry is not evil. I studied it for many years before joining and have yet to find anything evil about it.

I have a gathered amount of proof that says lucifer is god and it is a march towards it.

From out of context quotes found on anti-masonic websites, no doubt.

If you wish to learn about freemasonry order in teh book
Morals and Dogma from albert pike.

This is the first thing you have said with which I am in partial agreement. Keep in mind that this book pertains ONLY to the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, Southern Jurisdiction of the United States of America, of Freemasonry. I quote it often because there is much that is relevant in the text. Other than that, that book really does not apply to Craft Masonry. The first three Degrees in Morals and Dogma mostly pertain to Blue Masonry as it is in the rituals of the Scottish Rite (not practiced in most jurisdictions, particularly in English speaking lands) and not to York Rite Blue Lodge Masonry.

Also, keep in mind that the text is a text of comparative religion and philosophy and NOT a dogmatic text of Masonic doctrine. A lot of people end up being misled because they think of Morals and Dogma as some sort of Masonic Bible. I close with the most pertinent portion of the Preface, which always, always, always should be read and be thoroughly understood BEFORE reading the main text of Morals and Dogma.

The teachings of these Readings are not sacramental, so far as they go beyond the realm of Morality into those of other domains of Thought and Truth. The Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite uses the word "Dogma" in its true sense, of doctrine, or teaching; and is not dogmatic in the odious sense of that term. Every one is entirely free to reject and dissent from whatsoever herein may seem to him to be untrue or unsound. It is only required of him that he shall weigh what is taught, and give it fair hearing and unprejudiced judgment. Of course, the ancient theosophic and philosophic speculations are not embodied as part of the doctrines of the Rite; but because it is of interest and profit to know what the Ancient Intellect thought upon these subjects, and because nothing so conclusively proves the radical difference between our human and the animal nature, as the capacity of the human mind to entertain such speculations in regard to itself and the Deity. (Morals and Dogma, iv, bold emphasis mine)
​

 

[DCP 32° K.T]

...I noticed the masons seem to delight in symbols, and one of the symbols they use alot is a triangle, or pyramid....

Pyramids really do not form part of Masonic symbolism. Triangles and broken triangles of various sorts, however, do, mostly in the so-called haute grades or 'high' Degrees. They usually are stated to be symbols of Deity.

 

[engiin]

Pyramids really do not form part of Masonic symbolism. .

This is a strange comment. Not that I haven't heard this before. Some masons claim the pyramid and eye on the Great Seal has nothing to do with masonry. That it is not a masonic symbol. But I find it hard to believe that masons only use two dimensional symbols. The reason is that stonemasons worked in three degree space. And masonry often claims some connection to antient stonemasonry. Moreover, the famous problems of squaring the circle, doubling the cube, and trisecting the angle, all have solutions in three degrees, but in two degrees they are impossible. So, if one stuck to the tools of the Greek Geometers, the straight edge and the compass, then one can't solve these problems. But, as soon as one ascends to the third degree, and include a 3* tool, like a carpenter's square, solutions can be found easily. Now, if that doesn't have some masonic significance, then maybe this freemasonry isn't really the real deal, and there's another secret society out there that has the true connection to those old antient stone cutters.

 

[DCP 32° K.T]

...But I find it hard to believe that masons only use two dimensional symbols....

I never said that we do not have three-dimensional symbols, only that the triangle is a two-dimensional symbol in Masonry. Three-dimensional symbols include the ashlars, and so forth.

But, as soon as one ascends to the third degree, and include a 3* tool, like a carpenter's square, solutions can be found easily. Now, if that doesn't have some masonic significance, then maybe this freemasonry isn't really the real deal, and there's another secret society out there that has the true connection to those old antient stone cutters.

Funny. Don't remember the carpenter's square being particularly a symbol of the Sublime Degree of Master Mason (3°). The main symbols of that Degree (beehive, etc.) are monitorial, and others of the more particular symbols of that Degree include the extended Compasses and the Trowel. The Square appertains more to the Fellowcraft Degree and symbolically to the journey of life beginning at the Entered Apprentice Degree.

And with this, I'm headed to bed. Good night, engiin.

 

[BookerB]

To Those In Secret Societies:

I am a little confused by those who say they have the truth, but see the need to keep it secret.

I am reminded of a story about the great Vedic sage Caitanya Mahaprabhu who was given a mantra by his spiritual master. He was told that this spiritual affirmation was guaranteed to set him free from all material bondage, and ensured him entry into the Spiritual world upon death, but he must keep this mantra a secret. Immediately, he went out into the market place and gave the mantra to all that would listen. When his spiritual master asked why he had disobeyed his instruction, Caitanya's response was: "If this mantra has any power at all, than it must be freely given to everyone." That is exactly what I think concerning these secret societies, if your truth has any power, it should be freely given to all. That is just the way I see it.

 

[Nathan David]

Has it, now. Got a link for this amazing claim?

I'm still wating for some credible documentation that "astral projection has been scientifically proven".

 

[MoonlessNight]

I'm still wating for some credible documentation that "astral projection has been scientifically proven".

I've been waiting since the first page, so I wouldn't get your hopes up.

 

[Rev Wayne]

I'm still wating for some credible documentation that "astral projection has been scientifically proven".

Actually, I'd settle for some UNscientific documentation, but I doubt it'll come either.

 

[Rev Wayne]

I am a little confused by those who say they have the truth, but see the need to keep it secret.

You mean, for instance, like Jesus?

After the Transfiguration: "See that you tell no one the vision, until after the Son of Man has been raised from the dead." (Mt. 17:9)

After cleansing a leper: "See that you say nothing to anyone, but go show yourself to the priest." (Lk. 5:14)

After healing a blind man: "Do not go into the town, nor tell anyone in the town." (Mk. 8:26)

"Go into your room and close the door and pray to your Father in secret..."

"When you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your alms may be done in secret..."

"When you fast, put oil on your face and wash your head, so that your fasting may not be seen by others but by your Father who is in secret. . ."

Looks like some pretty good company.

 

[Arthra]

My own feeling regarding remote viewing is that there may be something to it... Same with telepathy... but these things are not "skills" which can be easily demonstrated all the time or invoked at will so experimental evidence is spotty ...not easily replicated...

Same with precognition... people have predicted things but they've also made many incorrect predictions... Or people say they had a dream of a great earthquake some where etc.

I think most religious people believe they (remote viewing, precognition, telepathy) are possible as we accept the existence of the soul and spiritual reality...

To me though "astral projection" is more identified with a particular system of belief that accepts astral planes... chakras... etheric doubles... and people who accept the reality of these things can be Rosicrucians, Theosophists, Spiritualists, Channelers, etc.

The danger to me is that some of these people can be unduly focused on supernatural phenomenau and try to somehow sharpen their abilities forgetting more important spiritual values. Also, people can be exploited by spiritualists and channelers who can be unscrupulous manipulators. I would also warn people about seances, consulting the dead, as these can be very unwholesome.

- Art

 

[BookerB]

Rev. Wayne,

You mean, for instance, like Jesus?

After the Transfiguration: "See that you tell no one the vision, until after the Son of Man has been raised from the dead." (Mt. 17:9)

After cleansing a leper: "See that you say nothing to anyone, but go show yourself to the priest." (Lk. 5:14)

After healing a blind man: "Do not go into the town, nor tell anyone in the town." (Mk. 8:26)

"Go into your room and close the door and pray to your Father in secret..."

"When you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your alms may be done in secret..."

"When you fast, put oil on your face and wash your head, so that your fasting may not be seen by others but by your Father who is in secret. . ."

Looks like some pretty good company.

For a moment I thought you were being sarcastic, but then I realized you were serious. This actually was your response. I sorry, but in the context of the example that I gave this is hardly a serious answer. It was pretty obvious to everyone that came in contact with leper that he had been cleansed, likewise those who came in contact with blind man knew that he could now see. Giving alms, fasting and praying are things that should be done in private, so as not to appear self-righteous before others. So, that would not be a secret either. As for the Transfiguration that was only a temporary thing. To imply that Jesus taught truth in a closed society or the way to eternal life in secret is ridiculous. Do not answer the question if you are not willing; I can respect you for that. But, to respond the way you did.... Well

 

[Rev Wayne]

I am a little confused by those who say they have the truth, but see the need to keep it secret.

Perhaps I was a bit hasty in replying. I just felt like the above statement makes assumptions and does so incorrectly, namely (1) that Freemasonry (which I will use rather than the broader "secret societies," since it is the main one I see discussed around here) sees itself as having "the" truth; and (2) that even if they had "the" truth, that they would hide it. In retrospect, I can see that I assumed incorrectly as well, in assuming that your remark was probably aimed at the typical target I've seen most people take, "If the lodge is about doing good deeds, why do they do them in secret?"

So I see by your most recent post a clarification, that you speak of "the truth" in general, that if they have it, why hide it. The fact is, they don't make any claim to have it. Freemasonry calls itself a "system of morality veiled in allegory," and they open membership to anyone who wishes to join, with the main stipulation that you must believe in a Divine Being. And any Mason will tell you, all you have to do is web surf a bit to find out about Masons from every different angle, the main things left that are secret are mainly the grips and signs.

It was pretty obvious to everyone that came in contact with leper that he had been cleansed, likewise those who came in contact with blind man knew that he could now see.

True. And it's also pretty hard to hide a Shriner's Hospital or a Masonic orphanage.

As for the Transfiguration that was only a temporary thing.

So, are we to take it then, that being secretive is okay if it's "only temporary?" Of course, then you get on the slippery slope of regulations concerning how long is too long to be temporary, similar to the Pharisees and their "sabbath day's walk."

I see and I understand your point, but with people quoting right and left from one source or another, masonic writers like Pike, detailing all the symbolism and the working tools and everything else, it's a little bit hard to see what the big so-called secret truly is.

Having said all that, getting back to the point of a secretive nature in the gospel context as well, consider:

"And the disciples came and said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?"
He answered and said to them, "Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand." (Matthew 13:10-13)

Mysteries? This knowledge given to one group, but hidden from another?

Hmmmmm.............

 

[BookerB]

Rev Wayne,

For those who have ears let them hear. The mystery was available to all who understood, but I also can see your point. Also a very good explanation concerning the secret societies. I was under the impression that they professed to have some truths that they could only share with members. Thanks for the response.

 

[engiin]

Actually, I'd settle for some UNscientific documentation, but I doubt it'll come either.

I think people can prove this for themselves. When I was a teenager I came across an article in a Psychic magazine that described a simple procedure for astral projection. I tried it, and it worked. I was amazed. It's not difficult. Indeed, it's very simple. Almost too simple. I don't necessarily recomend this for anyone, since there are consequences to knowing things that you didn't know before. However, for those who want proof, here's the procedure: get a white ping pong ball and cut it in half. Sit comfortably in a chair in a room with lots of light, and tape one hemisphere over each eye, with 'clear' tape, so that you're looking into the inside of the ping pong ball. Keep your eyes open, and relax, and observe the visual field. After a while you'll begin to astral project. I leave out all the intermediate steps, so you can get your own exprience without being influenced by "autosuggestion". You'll find them out by experience.

Why does it work? Over the years I've developed this theory of why. First of all it's based on sensory deprivation. We're only using one sense here, the sense of sight. The other senses are not directly involved, but we must nevertheless have no great distractions there either. So, quiet room, no eating while contemplating the sights, etc..But, it involves concentrating your awareness, or attention, on one thing. Yogi's can do this without ping pong balls, by contemplating a single point on a wall, etc.. but that's too difficult for most people. The thing is, once our eyes are open, our minds start to search for information in our input, most of the time it finds things around the room to see, and it constantly flips between objects in the room, even though we think we're looking at one thing only. So, its very hard to concentrate on just one point. We can also close our eyes, and contemplate something inside us, but for most people, once the eyes are closed, the darkness suggests time to sleep, and pretty soon, after feeling very relaxed, we do indeed fall asleep. So, for most of us, that doesn't work either. We need to keep looking at a lighted field so that our brain doesn't automatically switch into sleep mode, and at the same time we don't want any objects in our field of vision, because then the eyes will rapidly flicker back and forth among the objects and that distraction, even though we don't realise it, keeps us from descending into the altered state of consciousness. So, we must see light, but at the same time see no information in that light. Hence, the ping pong ball exercise. Given that we're not expert Yogi's who have mastered the art of concentation, we need to trick our system into thinking we're a great yogi.

This then makes it very easy. We don't have to take years of practice concentrating on a single point, or any of the other difficult exercises that yogis practice. We simply relax and let the mind do all the work for us. We'll discover that our system is just as powerful as a yogi, if we cooperate with it, and just leave it to do its own thing. We try not to interfere with it, just relax and pay attention to the transformations that occur. The first thing that happens, is that our brain begins to search for information in the light. But, there is none. So, automatically, it shifts gears to find a different "focus" to see if the information is there in some hidden format. We know our eyes re-focus constantly when we move our head about, or look at differerent objects near and far. Well, this is what happens. Only, once the lens has shifted focus about and tried different positions and still can't locate recognisable information, the mind then takes over and begins to shift conscious states to see if it can help find someting to understand. Eventually, the mind shifts into the altered state required for astral projection, and after you project it does find the information it was looking for, it can now understand it's field of vision, and has once again located objects to focus on, so it's done. That's it. Pretty simple. Now, don't tell me astral travel isn't real. You have the short cut to the astral world. Go see for yourself.

[Note: why I don't recomend it, except for those who must have proof. Once you astral project using this technique, you'll find it hard not to astral project automatically at random times, especially when going to sleep at night. It may take years to get under control. Because you didn't use the long yogic method of learning to control your whole system, but basically used your system's own feedback mechanism to trick it into projection, your system stores this new pathway in its memory, and it becomes one of the alternate routes it routinely "checks" when its is trying to "focus" to find new information. Hence, at bed time, when you close your eyes, you'll find yourself wanting to project and fighting to stay in. Be warned. ]