Asteroid Strike

[Ophiolite]

We know some strikes happened after the flood as you can go to Arizona and look at one.

The Barringer Meteor Crater has been dated at 50,000 +/- years ago.

Phillips et al "Age and geomorphic history of Meteor Crater, Arizona, from cosmogenic 36Cl and 14C in rock varnish" Geochimica a Cosmochimica Acta Vol. 55, pp. 2695-2698 1991

Niishizumi et al "In Situ 10Be-26Al Exposure Ages at Metor Crater, Arizona" Abstracts of the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference, volume 20, page 792, (1989)

 

[Ophiolite]

Thanks for the information. Uniformitarian history need some major corrections.
I've pointed out biomaterial found in dinosaur fossils as well as C14 found in coal and diamonds that shouldn't bee there.

You have done so unconvincingly and with insufficient evidence to support your interpretations, which are more by the way of bland assertions than alternative hypotheses.

 

[AV1611VET]

I've already explained it to you. I'll give you some more details.

Some people try very hard not to understand, and they succeed.

Light bulbs are scarce in this day and age.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I've already explained it to you. I'll give you some more details.
Kinds are animals that can interbreed. Horses and Zebras as well as Lions and tigers are but two of many.
If you wind the clock back to the Ark there were two lets say of the cat kind. Whether they were two of the same "species" or not is not known.
If you used todays classification ranks kinds may have been similar to genus or family. Remember only similar.
It is believed their DNA variation and heterozygous was much higher when the came off of the ark.
Because they were of the same kind they could interbreed. After the ark the tempo of the environment was changing rapidly as the earth was reestablishing. Natural selection was then differentiating the original kinds into new species. Similar to mixing a poodle and a lab and getting a labradoodle.
As the years go on the variation in the DNA and heterozygous of the animals has become less and less. Currently when you mix two of the same kind the offspring may be sterile or only a male or female may be able to reproduce.

So where is all of that in the Bible?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[lasthero]

Your disputes seem to be somewhat petty.

Sorry you feel that way.

Once again pettiness sets in. You didn't answer the question.
It has only been suggested that an asteroid may have struck the earth and cracked it so the fountains of the deep could be released.

You said that some creationists believed that, you never said that you did. But it’s irrelevant. Even if I accept that a meteor could do such a thing - it can’t, but whatever - that doesn’t erase all the other things it would do to the atmosphere. And there are multiple impacts.

I didn't know there were forest right after the flood. Many of the forest sunk and were buried during the flood creating coal and other fossil fuels.

There are a whole list of reasons why that’s wrong, but let’s slay one dragon at a time.

Before the flood all the remains of it would have been lost.

I kind of doubt it. It’s a pretty big crater.

Depends on when during the flood as to how much of the remains would have survived. Arizona would have been post flood. We know this because Arizona is flood deposit.

What do you mean Arizona is a flood deposit? Are you saying Arizona didn’t exist during the flood? That the flood created Arizona in total?

So what?

So why aren’t these things mentioned in your Bible? You really don’t think it’s the least bit odd that the most catastrophic event in history wouldn’t be mentioned, not even in passing? Why is God hitting the Earth with meteors right after the flood, things that would have almost certainly killed any life the Flood didn’t get?

God has the flood, spares Noah and two of every animals, sets them free to repopulate the Earth - and then, shortly after, either allows, or more likely causes, fiery death to rain down and turn the Earth into an apocalyptic hellscape for years.

 

[-57]

The Barringer Meteor Crater has been dated at 50,000 +/- years ago.

Phillips et al "Age and geomorphic history of Meteor Crater, Arizona, from cosmogenic 36Cl and 14C in rock varnish" Geochimica a Cosmochimica Acta Vol. 55, pp. 2695-2698 1991

Niishizumi et al "In Situ 10Be-26Al Exposure Ages at Metor Crater, Arizona" Abstracts of the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference, volume 20, page 792, (1989)

Yup, it's been dated incorrectly.

 

[-57]

So where is all of that in the Bible?

-CryptoLutheran

Rolls Eyes....

It's a scientific model based upon scientific observation which produced information capable of explaining what the Bible teaches.

I must keep in mind that question was asked by a guy who wants to tell us the Bible teaches evolutionism despite directly contradicting Gen 1-2.

From a guy who can't explain where original sin and our sin nature has come from.

 

[-57]

What do you mean Arizona is a flood deposit? Are you saying Arizona didn’t exist during the flood? That the flood created Arizona in total?

I'm saying the flood created the Grand Staircase.

 

[-57]

God has the flood, spares Noah and two of every animals, sets them free to repopulate the Earth - and then, shortly after, either allows, or more likely causes, fiery death to rain down and turn the Earth into an apocalyptic hellscape for years.

Are you saying the Arizona impact caused a fiery death to rain down and turn the Earth into an apocalyptic hellscape for years?

 

[lasthero]

Are you saying the Arizona impact caused a fiery death to rain down and turn the Earth into an apocalyptic hellscape for years?

No.

That’s not the one that killed the dinosaurs. That’s actually a really small crater.

This is the one that likely did.

Chicxulub crater - Wikipedia

And, keep in mind, this isn’t even the biggest crater we’ve found.

 

[Ophiolite]

Yup, it's been dated incorrectly.

I have provided two examples, containing diverse dating methods, all providing comparable dates. The methodology is discussed in the papers. Technical details are not lacking.

In contrast you offer a mere denial. That has as much relevance as a tin of sawdust in the performance of Beethoven's Third Symphony. I doubt you have the capacity to offer a genuine attempt to justify that assertion, but the floor is yours. Just don't cover it with sawdust.

 

[-57]

I have provided two examples, containing diverse dating methods, all providing comparable dates. The methodology is discussed in the papers. Technical details are not lacking.

In contrast you offer a mere denial. That has as much relevance as a tin of sawdust in the performance of Beethoven's Third Symphony. I doubt you have the capacity to offer a genuine attempt to justify that assertion, but the floor is yours. Just don't cover it with sawdust.

I have provided you with dinosaur biomaterial as well as C14 found in coal. They contradict your flawed scientific method. Go find a broom and sew your floor.

 

[Ken Rank]

Sorry friend, I too will join them.

Unfortunately, while there is evidence for an asteroid destroying the dinosaurs (the Yucatan crater and iridium boundary), evidence of a global flood does not fit the evidence. Perhaps if flood waters contained high concentrations of iridium. Or perhaps if an asteroid hit the earth in conjunction with the flood of Exodus. But neither seems feasible.

That's fine... it really doesn't matter. If a rock from space killed them off or they died somehow after the flood, it doesn't shake or change my faith. We have species going extinct all the time and God didn't tell us how each would find their demise. In fact, the only animal that God gives some answer to in terms of their death is man. So an old Earth and a rock, or a young Earth and hunting and environmental changes... doesn't matter one way or the other.

Peace.
Ken

 

[Ophiolite]

I have provided you with dinosaur biomaterial as well as C14 found in coal. They contradict your flawed scientific method. Go find a broom and sew your floor.

No. Stay on topic. The point under discussion is the dating of the Barringer Meteor Crater, not your quaint, but irrelevant "anomalies". What evidence do you offer to counter the information, methods or conclusions of the two papers I linked to earlier?

 

[Ophiolite]

That's fine... it really doesn't matter. If a rock from space killed them off or they died somehow after the flood, it doesn't shake or change my faith. We have species going extinct all the time and God didn't tell us how each would find their demise. In fact, the only animal that God gives some answer to in terms of their death is man. So an old Earth and a rock, or a young Earth and hunting and environmental changes... doesn't matter one way or the other.

Peace.
Ken

If we were given, as according to Genesis we were, dominion over all life on Earth, this view seems a little irresponsible and uncaring. Comments?

 

[Strathos]

I'm not going to explain every little detail on this topic as the topic its large.

You can visit sites like this and receive answers.

Deflection noted.

What do you do with the portions of the Bible that present Genesis and the flood as literal?

I believe there was a literal flood, it just wasn't global.

 

[Ken Rank]

If we were given, as according to Genesis we were, dominion over all life on Earth, this view seems a little irresponsible and uncaring. Comments?

What I mean in that post is that Scripture does not tell us one way or the other. So, one person can look at science... which in my opinion is a man-made and often secular system that seeks to draw conclusions through theories run through various modes of testing without considering God in any way. Another person can attempt to fill in the Scriptural blanks using the spirit of the remaining Scriptures, which is what I was doing.

But here is the thing... when it comes to the extinction of dinosaurs... I can't prove I am right, and those who believe there was an asteroid ALSO cannot prove they are right. All we can do is test based on the available evidence or surmise based on the rest of Scripture. But nobody was here when they died, there is no video of an asteroid.... we just have conclusions based on whatever evidence exists which is not complete evidence. So NOBODY can say ANYTHING with 100% certainty!

Since neither of us can prove our point... and since this isn't exactly a salvation issue, it doesn't matter. People are welcome to draw their own conclusions and answer for themselves. That's all I meant by, "it doesn't matter."

 

[Ophiolite]

What I mean in that post is that Scripture does not tell us one way or the other. So, one person can look at science... which in my opinion is a man-made and often secular system that seeks to draw conclusions through theories run through various modes of testing without considering God in any way.

Correct. Science has, for some considerable time, adopted a philosophy of methodological naturalism. This makes theological matters as out of place in a research laboratory as they would be in a department store. The scientist and the shop assistant may be deeply religious, but that does not materially alter how they sterilise the glass wear, or ring up a sale.

But here is the thing... when it comes to the extinction of dinosaurs... I can't prove I am right, and those who believe there was an asteroid ALSO cannot prove they are right. <snip> But nobody was here when they died, there is no video of an asteroid.... we just have conclusions based on whatever evidence exists which is not complete evidence. So NOBODY can say ANYTHING with 100% certainty!

Irrelevant. Science is not about proving things, it is about identifying the most probable explanation. At present we can be confident that either the Deccan trap vulcanism, or the asteroid impact, or a combination led to the end Cretaceous extinction event. If new evidence, or new interpretations emerge, then that conclusion may be refined or overturned. In the absence of such novelty it would be cavalier to reject the consensus view.

All we can do is test based on the available evidence or surmise based on the rest of Scripture.

The moment you introduce Scripture you are no longer doing science. I'm not saying you shouldn't do that, but just be fully aware that the result is not science.

Since neither of us can prove our point... and since this isn't exactly a salvation issue, it doesn't matter. People are welcome to draw their own conclusions and answer for themselves. That's all I meant by, "it doesn't matter."

That's good. You have clarified your point. I interpreted your words differently, but you have clarified and corrected my misunderstanding.

Aside: Since I do not acknowledge the reality of Salvation I strongly believe that matters you would dismiss are of immense importance to the biosphere, to mankind and to myself. . . . in that order.

 

[lasthero]

I can't prove I am right, and those who believe there was an asteroid ALSO cannot prove they are right.

This is like saying I can’t prove someone was shot just because they have a gunshot wound.

And a bullet underneath it.

We know there were meteor hits. There are craters. There are fragments of the meteors. There are materials we know meteors leave behind.

All the evidence follows that.

This whole ‘you weren’t there’ argument that creationists bring out is such a lame argument. It falls apart if you think about for five seconds.
Ev

 

[-57]

No. Stay on topic. The point under discussion is the dating of the Barringer Meteor Crater, not your quaint, but irrelevant "anomalies". What evidence do you offer to counter the information, methods or conclusions of the two papers I linked to earlier?

There's more to it than that.
There is the assumption the erosion rate has been the same for 50,000 years.
There is the assumption that rock varnishing has remained the same.
There is the assumption cosmic ray have always been the same.

Sounds like the 25,000 years age had to be updated to 49,000 years. What's next? 75,000