Assurance of Salvation according to John...

Guojing · Jan 23, 2023

Carl Emerson said:
When I said we can choose not to love others - it is only for a season and He will bring us back after we learn the lessons of disobedience.

So now you are saying a true believer can choose not to love others temporary, but eventually, he will love others.

You are also implying choosing not to love others is disobedience towards God.

So in the end, you are saying that in order to remain a true believer, and hence have eternal life, obedience towards God is necessary.

Carl Emerson · Jan 23, 2023

Guojing said:
So now you are saying a true believer can choose not to love others temporary, but eventually, he will love others.

You are also implying choosing not to love others is disobedience towards God.

So in the end, you are saying that in order to remain a true believer, and hence have eternal life, obedience towards God is necessary.

Obedience is guaranteed by Him where it relates to ones ultimate destiny.

If you are really born again, you have relinquished your will for His.

I have always said our 'performance' will establish eternal reward but eternal salvation is a different issue and is promised and gifted by Him.

I was in rebellion as a believer for 11 years and He broke into my life and put me back on the rails.

Guojing · Jan 23, 2023

Carl Emerson said:
Obedience is guaranteed by Him where it relates to ones ultimate destiny.

If you are really born again, you have relinquished your will for His.

I have always said our 'performance' will establish eternal reward but eternal salvation is a different issue and is promised and gifted by Him.

I was in rebellion as a believer for 11 years and He broke into my life and put me back on the rails.

So those passages in 1 John are all about performances for rewards, rather than for eternal life?

Carl Emerson · Jan 23, 2023

Guojing said:
So those passages in 1 John are all about performances for rewards, rather than for eternal life?

Please be specific as to which passages.

But yes - folks get Status and condition mixed up.

The Prodigal son was never not a son. His condition however was pretty depraved.

Guojing · Jan 23, 2023

Carl Emerson said:
Please be specific as to which passages.

But yes - folks get Status and condition mixed up.

The Prodigal son was never not a son. His condition however was pretty depraved.

the passages you quoted in your OP.

But if you have forgotten them, here is one

1 John 3:14-15

14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

d taylor · Jan 23, 2023

Guojing said:
So to you, if a believer abides in death all the way to the end of his lifespan, does he still have God's free gift of eternal Life salvation?

Once a person becomes a child of God (a believer) they can never become not a child of God. No matter if this person loses faith, does not love believers, ends up hating God, Noting can separate this person from being born again.

They can not become unborn again.

Guojing · Jan 23, 2023

d taylor said:
Once a person becomes a child of God (a believer) they can never become not a child of God. No matter if this person loses faith, does not love believers, ends up hating God, Noting can separate this person from being born again.

They can not become unborn again.

And you think that is what John was trying to say in 1 John 3:14-15, that one can be a murderer with no eternal life abiding in him, abide in death all the way and yet still be eternally saved?

d taylor · Jan 23, 2023

Guojing said:
And you think that is what John was trying to say in 1 John 3:14-15, that one can be a murderer with no eternal life abiding in him, abide in death all the way and yet still be eternally saved?

So you think Moses, David, Samson, etc.. all murders are in hell

Guojing · Jan 23, 2023

d taylor said:
So you think Moses, David, Samson, etc.. all murders are in hell

No, but we are talking about what John is trying to say in that passage.

ozso · Jan 23, 2023

d taylor said:
So you think Moses, David, Samson, etc.. all murders are in hell

Don't forget Paul, who assisted in the murder of Christians. Which is why he called himself the chief among sinners.

Carl Emerson · Jan 23, 2023

Guojing said:
the passages you quoted in your OP.

But if you have forgotten them, here is one

1 John 3:14-15

14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

No I haven't forgotten...,

I passed from death to life at 13 and loved the brethren.

I have never had a hatred for anyone.

I havent been forgetting or avoiding any verses.

Xeno.of.athens · Jan 23, 2023

Carl Emerson said:
A matter that troubles many is - how can I know I am saved.

Today you can believe that you are saved but you do not know it and cannot know it until the final judgement is pronounced after the "books are opened" on judgement day.

Carl Emerson · Jan 23, 2023

Xeno.of.athens said:
Today you can believe that you are saved but you do not know it and cannot know it until the final judgement is pronounced after the "books are opened" on judgement day.

Your position not agree with the teaching of John.

1 Jn 5:
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

d taylor · Jan 23, 2023

Guojing said:
No, but we are talking about what John is trying to say in that passage.

Murder is not differnet in 1 John than murder in past time, murder is murder

Because We Love the Brethren – 1 John 3:14 – Grace Evangelical Society

Xeno.of.athens · Jan 23, 2023

Carl Emerson said:
Your position not agree with the teaching of John.

1 Jn 5:
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

From a Catholic perspective, 1 John 5:13 states that we can be confident that we have eternal life through our belief in Jesus as the Son of God. However, it is important to remember that this does not mean that we can be absolutely certain that we are among the elect, or those chosen by God for salvation. The Catholic Church teaches that salvation is a gift from God, and ultimately, it is up to God to decide who will be saved. While we can have faith and confidence in our salvation through Jesus, we should not presume to know for certain who is among the elect.

Guojing · Jan 23, 2023

d taylor said:
Murder is not differnet in 1 John than murder in past time, murder is murder

Because We Love the Brethren – 1 John 3:14 – Grace Evangelical Society

Okay, you believed that John is making a distinction between fellowship and relationship in all those verses, thus allowing you to conclude that John is also preaching salvation by grace thru faith apart from works of any kind.

Guojing · Jan 23, 2023

Carl Emerson said:
No I haven't forgotten...,

I passed from death to life at 13 and loved the brethren.

I have never had a hatred for anyone.

I havent been forgetting or avoiding any verses.

Yet, you will still conclude that none of those "I loved the brethren, I have never had a hatred for anyone", are works that you have done?

Why the hesitancy and shyness in calling them your works/your performances? (although both of us know why)

My question to you was "So those passages in 1 John are all about performances for rewards, rather than for eternal life?"

Are you saying yes or no?

d taylor · Jan 23, 2023

Guojing said:
Okay, you believed that John is making a distinction between fellowship and relationship in all those verses, thus allowing you to conclude that John is also preaching salvation by grace thru faith apart from works of any kind.

He wrote a whole book about that The Gospel of John.

Guojing · Jan 23, 2023

d taylor said:
He wrote a whole book about that The Gospel of John.

If Matthew, Mark and Luke are all about performances to enter the Kingdom of Heaven for the Jews, for example, the Sermon on the Mount, the author of John cannot be meaning anything that is different.

But I can understand why you will conclude that. Out of all the 4 gospel accounts, John is the one that is most suitable and easiest for Christians who want to eisegesis, and make Paul's gospel appear there.

ozso · Jan 23, 2023

Xeno.of.athens said:
From a Catholic perspective, 1 John 5:13 states that we can be confident that we have eternal life through our belief in Jesus as the Son of God. However, it is important to remember that this does not mean that we can be absolutely certain that we are among the elect, or those chosen by God for salvation. The Catholic Church teaches that salvation is a gift from God, and ultimately, it is up to God to decide who will be saved. While we can have faith and confidence in our salvation through Jesus, we should not presume to know for certain who is among the elect.

The doctrine of election was first articulated and popularized in the 4th century by Augustine.

Assurance of Salvation according to John...

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I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.

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I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.

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