Assessment of the 'Passion Translation' of scripture.

[spiritfilledjm]

Big Whoops...

It was the CLV that I was referring to and said YLT by mistake...

Please forgive me -senior moment...

You can read about it here...

Beware of CLV version of the bible.

Just to say some on CF lean heavily on the CLV bible translation. Be aware that this was the work of A.E. Knoch a former Plymouth Brethren excommunicated for heresy. His wayward thinking has influenced how he translated certain passages. You are welcome to read an article about it here... A...

www.christianforums.com

Sorry everyone...

It's all good. I sometimes get translations confused myself. Your concern about the YLT is valid, regardless. It is the work of one man. The only difference between it and TPT is that YLT is not condemned by most scholars whereas TPT is.

 

[The Liturgist]

That says all I need to know. Virtually all of the main-line translations were done by highly educated teams of people with many years of experience and knowledge of the original texts. While I may use it in lesson planning if it does put a verse in a way that makes more sense or would be a better way of putting something when applying hermeneutics, it is not a translation I would ever feel comfortable with unless there was a general consensus that this one man got more right than the translators with hundreds of years of knowledge and study between them.

To be fair, there are some niche translations like the Murdoch and Etheridge translations of the Syriac Peshitta, and the Lancelot Brenton translation of the Septuagint, or Dr. David Bentley Hart’s recent translation from the Greek in which he tried to preserve the exact literary style of the original, or indeed the Coverdale Bible whose Psalter remains the standard in the Church of England.

However, this obviously does not fall into those categories, which are highly specialized translations composed with specific criteria by intellectuals not claiming to be inspired prophets, and there obviously are not any shocking paraphrases in the aforementioned texts.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

To be fair, there are some niche translations like the Murdoch and Etheridge translations of the Syriac Peshitta, and the Lancelot Brenton translation of the Septuagint, or Dr. David Bentley Hart’s recent translation from the Greek in which he tried to preserve the exact literary style of the original, or indeed the Coverdale Bible whose Psalter remains the standard in the Church of England.

However, this obviously does not fall into those categories, which are highly specialized translations composed with specific criteria by intellectuals not claiming to be inspired prophets, and there obviously are not any shocking paraphrases in the aforementioned texts.

So niche I haven't even heard of them lol. From what I can tell (in the few minutes of searching on each of those translations), it's the same consensus as what I've seen about the YLT. Even though it was the work of one man, these translations were done by highly educated men and their contemporaries largely stand by their translations as being good and accurate.
When looking up Brian Simmons, the lead translator of TPT, it looks like he has no real education to speak of. Meaning that the schools he went to are unaccredited. I can't find anything for this New Tribes school that he mentions in his LinkedIn account, and Wagner Leadership Institute is unaccredited. Don't get me wrong, education in ministry is almost nothing and God will equip those whom He has chosen. However, in the case of translating texts...I'd be more willing to accept a translation as valid when it comes from someone with a history of education in the languages. To his credit, Simmons has been in ministry for over 40 years but that does not equate to knowledge in Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic. However, a doctorate from an unaccredited institution in Practical Ministry and Prayer does not equate to having enough knowledge of the original languages to be able to translate them properly. At best he had a semester in each of the languages.

 

[ARBITER01]

That says all I need to know. Virtually all of the main-line translations were done by highly educated teams of people with many years of experience and knowledge of the original texts. While I may use it in lesson planning if it does put a verse in a way that makes more sense or would be a better way of putting something when applying hermeneutics, it is not a translation I would ever feel comfortable with unless there was a general consensus that this one man got more right than the translators with hundreds of years of knowledge and study between them.

I wouldn't slam it for being done by just one individual for the most part. Tydale did most of his by himself, as did the writer of the Geneva version, and they were obviously great translations.

The problem we have nowadays is we can't a translation done by an individual because their relationship with GOD is mediocre,.... and that bleeds over into the translation itself, as one poster pointed out on here already.

I work on comparing translations and writing out scripture, and it is a very maturing type of discipline. But when I see stuff like this, I automatically know the person just threw it together to sell and make a name for themselves.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

I wouldn't slam it for being done by just one individual for the most part. Tydale did most of his by himself, as did the writer of the Geneva version, and they were obviously great translations.

The problem we have nowadays is we can't a translation done by an individual because their relationship with GOD is mediocre,.... and that bleeds over into the translation itself, as one poster pointed out on here already.

I work on comparing translations and writing out scripture, and it is a very maturing type of discipline. But when I see stuff like this, I automatically know the person just threw it together to sell and make a name for themselves.

True. I guess it doesn't matter as long as their contemporaries have a consensus of approval. At the same time, I'm still more trusting of a modern translation done by a team rather than one person. There's no real reason for having one person work on a translation nowadays, considering there isn't as much of a threat now as there was in the 1500s for writing an English translation not authorized by the Church or government, which is what Tyndale and Hill had to be in fear of when they took it upon themselves to write an unauthorized English translation.

 

[ARBITER01]

True. I guess it doesn't matter as long as their contemporaries have a consensus of approval. At the same time, I'm still more trusting of a modern translation done by a team rather than one person. There's no real reason for having one person work on a translation nowadays, considering there isn't as much of a threat now as there was in the 1500s for writing an English translation not authorized by the Church or government, which is what Tyndale and Hill had to be in fear of when they took it upon themselves to write an unauthorized English translation.

Normally a company that desires to write a new translation will assemble around 100 translators to put together a new one. It normally will take them around a year or so to finish. The problem is not necessarily those people translating it, the problem comes in after it is done,.... that is where it goes to an editorial board to be reviewed, and that's where things are taken out or added, gender neutral terminology is added, etc. Most of these companies doing this seem to always have some sort of editorial board included that performs it's little bit of mischief in the process. The translators are not all that worried, they get paid and it's on to something else involving them academically they can use their credentials on.

Also, there is normally only a certain cross section of translators that are chosen all the time. You normally don't see Pentecostal/Charismatic type translators on any of those teams they assemble. In reality, you may have some non Christian types chosen nowadays, like they did with the ISB translation some years ago. This has sort of become common place now with all the diversification stuff going on.

I do think some people in academia have furthered our bible knowledge to a great degree. I'm not one of those people that hates on Westcott and Hort, I think their translation was really good and I use it quite frequently in comparing things, they just approached it with a certain bias of only wanting the earliest texts and badmouthing the later ones. That in itself created a division for us of two types of bibles rather than an eclectic type translation like in many before.

Knowing all of this, I started writing my own bible translation for myself years ago. It's an editorial type of work since I don't read any other language but English, but doing such a thing over time with GOD on this has really matured my dependency on The Holy Spirit's leading. It's a very hard thing to concentrate so much on, and then to continually keep re-reading a book you may have already finished for The Holy Spirit to point out all the mistakes that I missed in the process to make sure it is correct.

It takes years to do it right,.... that is if you want it right, but it is for me, and I want it right.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

Normally a company that desires to write a new translation will assemble around 100 translators to put together a new one. It normally will take them around a year or so to finish. The problem is not necessarily those people translating it, the problem comes in after it is done,.... that is where it goes to an editorial board to be reviewed, and that's where things are taken out or added, gender neutral terminology is added, etc. Most of these companies doing this seem to always have some sort of editorial board included that performs it's little bit of mischief in the process. The translators are not all that worried, they get paid and it's on to something else involving them academically they can use their credentials on.

Also, there is normally only a certain cross section of translators that are chosen all the time. You normally don't see Pentecostal/Charismatic type translators on any of those teams they assemble. In reality, you may have some non Christian types chosen nowadays, like they did with the ISB translation some years ago. This has sort of become common place now with all the diversification stuff going on.

I do think some people in academia have furthered our bible knowledge to a great degree. I'm not one of those people that hates on Westcott and Hort, I think their translation was really good and I use it quite frequently in comparing things, they just approached it with a certain bias of only wanting the earliest texts and badmouthing the later ones. That in itself created a division for us of two types of bibles rather than an eclectic type translation like in many before.

Knowing all of this, I started writing my own bible translation for myself years ago. It's an editorial type of work since I don't read any other language but English, but doing such a thing over time with GOD on this has really matured my dependency on The Holy Spirit's leading. It's a very hard thing to concentrate so much on, and then to continually keep re-reading a book you may have already finished for The Holy Spirit to point out all the mistakes that I missed in the process to make sure it is correct.

It takes years to do it right,.... that is if you want it right, but it is for me, and I want it right.

Feel free to share it if you ever finish it . Wouldn't what you're doing be called a paraphrase, if you're basing it off of other translations?

 

[ARBITER01]

Feel free to share it if you ever finish it . Wouldn't what you're doing be called a paraphrase, if you're basing it off of other translations?

No,.... it's way more literal. I can't stand paraphrased translations.

When I get home from work I share a section of it and let you decide.

 

[ARBITER01]

Here's a chapter in Acts,....

​

Chapter 3

NOW Peter and John were going up to the temple, at the ninth hour, that of prayer,

2 And a certain man, being inherently lame out of the womb of his mother, was being carried, whom they placed day by day at the gate of the temple, that-one being called Beautiful, to request alms from those going into the temple,

3 Who, upon seeing Peter and John being about to enter into the temple, asked to receive alms.

4 ¶ Now Peter, looking intently at him, together with John, said: "Look at us!"

5 And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something from them.

6 But Peter said unto him: "Silver and gold have I none, yet what I have, this give I unto thee: In the name of Jesus Christ The Nazarene, rise up and walk!"

7 And taking him by the right hand, he raised him up, and immediately, the feet and ankles of him were strengthened.

8 And leaping up, he stood and walked, and entered together with them into the temple, walking and leaping and praising GOD.

9 And all the people saw him walking and praising GOD, and they took knowledge of him, that this was the-one sitting for alms at the Beautiful Gate of the temple,

10 And they were all filled with wonder and amazement over that having befallen him.

11 ¶ Now as he held fast unto Peter and John, all the people ran together towards them, onto the porch, that-one being called Solomon's, in great amazement,

12 But perceiving this, Peter responded unto the people, saying:

13 "Men of Israel, why marvel ye at this-man? Or why gaze ye upon us as though our own power or piety had caused him to walk?

14 The GOD of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, The GOD of our forefathers, glorifieth His Servant Jesus, whom ye indeed, delivered up and denied before the presence of Pilate, when that-one gave judgment to release Him.

15 Yea, ye denied The Holy and Righteous-One, and demanded a murderous man to be granted unto thee(P),

16 And ye put to death The Author of Life, Whom GOD hath now raised out of the dead, of which we art all witnesses.

17 And upon that faith in His Name, hath His Name strengthened this-man whom ye see and know.

18 Yea, that faith through Him, granted unto him, this perfect soundness before all of thee(P).

19 And now brethren, I know that ye acted in ignorance, as didst also thy(P) rulers,

20 Yet what things GOD foretold through the mouth of all the Prophets, concerning the suffering of His Anointed-One, He hath thus fulfilled.

21 Repent ye therefore, and turn ye again unto the blotting out of thy(P) sins, so that the times of refreshing may ever come unto thee from the presence of The LORD,

22 And that He may send forth That-One foreordained unto thee(P), Christ Jesus,

23 Whom the heaven must indeed, receive, until the times of the restoration of all things, whereof GOD spoke through the mouth of [all] His holy Prophets of old.

24 [For] it was Moses indeed, that said [unto the forefathers]: 'A Prophet shall The LORD THY GOD raise up unto thee(P), like unto me, out of thy(P) brethren,

25 Unto Him shall ye hearken to according to all, whatsoever, He shalt speak unto thee(P).

26 And it shall be that every soul, whomsoever, that hearkens not unto that Prophet, shall be utterly destroyed out of the people.'

27 "Yea, and all the Prophets, from Samuel and those henceforth, as many as ever spoke, likewise foretold of these days.

28 Thou(P) art the sons of the Prophets, and of the covenant which GOD appointed unto thy(P) forefathers, saying unto Abraham: 'And in thy seed shalt all the families of the earth be blessed.'

29 "And foremost unto thee(P) hath GOD raised up His Servant [Jesus], and sent Him forth blessing ye, by turning away each of thee from thy(P) evil ways."

30 ¶ Now as they were speaking unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple guard, and the Sadducees, came upon them,

31 Being grieved that they taught the people, and declared in Jesus the resurrection out of the dead.

32 And they laid their hands upon them, and were placed into custody until the next day, for it was now evening,

33 Yet many of those hearing the word, believed, and the number of men came to be, as it were, five thousand.

- The earliest text source is given prominence, bracketed words are from the received text, italicized words show words added to smooth reading for the most part.
- Words with (p) after them are superscript letting the reader know that the particular word is plural where I may have used a singular word to make it more readable.
- Numbering of passages is all new and follows the flow of the text. It doesn't follow the 1500's numbering from Stephanus. Paragraphs are scrutinized and changed as needed also, as well as chapters.
- Colored text identifies quotes from the OT saints (blue), and quotes from GOD are in (red), whether The Father, Jesus, or The Holy Spirit.
- Passages where the triune nature of GOD can be easily identified are shown. This chapter may not have a section showing that, but if a name ascribed to The Father is mentioned, the whole name is capitalized, LORD vs Lord, etc. Only where it can be easily identified.