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It's the Assemblies of God, and they believe that speaking in tongues is the initial evidence of the infilling of the Holy Spirit, which it is as depicted in the Book of Acts.Assembly of God believes that speaking in tongues is the evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Are they right?
It's the Assemblies of God, and they believe that speaking in tongues is the initial evidence of the infilling of the Holy Spirit, which it is as depicted in the Book of Acts.
No they do not and I'm not aware of any Pentecostal denomination that does so. It is a common misconception amongst those who don't believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues that this is what Pentecostal denominations teach, but it is inaccurate to say the least.However, they do not preach that one must speak in tongues in order to be saved, do they?
No they do not and I'm not aware of any Pentecostal denomination that does so. It is a common misconception amongst those who don't believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues that this is what Pentecostal denominations teach, but it is inaccurate to say the least.
Even though all mainline Pentecostal groups recognise that you do not need to speak in tongues to be saved, there are a number of sizable Pentecostal groups (who most Pentecostals tend to keep at arms length) who do believe that one must demonstrate an ability to speak in tongues before they can be deemed to be Saved. The denominations that hold to this position tend to be Oneness groups.No they do not and I'm not aware of any Pentecostal denomination that does so. It is a common misconception amongst those who don't believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues that this is what Pentecostal denominations teach, but it is inaccurate to say the least.
Well I wouldn't consider Pentecostal Oneness as representative of the Pentecostal faith. In my opinion I don't even count them as Christian, because they fail to believe in our Triune God. Sadly there are more than a few so-called Pentecostal churches that don't teach biblical accuracy or truth. One that comes to mind and is part of a larger group, is Todd Bentley. I am embarrassed to say he is Canadian.Even though all mainline Pentecostal groups recognise that you do not need to speak in tongues to be saved, there are a number of sizable Pentecostal groups (who most Pentecostals tend to keep at arms length) who do believe that one must demonstrate an ability to speak in tongues before they can be deemed to be Saved. The denominations that hold to this position tend to be Oneness groups.
That has certainly been my observation, as well, having also taught the Bible among various house churches in China. Although pentecostalism, as well as contemporary American Christianity, are making strong inroad among Chinese Christians, the majority have not completely embraced these by any stretch of the imagination.
Even though the various Oneness groups have been a thorn in the side of the Full Gospel movement due to their additional common position that we have to speak in tongues to be Saved; they are still a part of the Body of Christ where their Salvation has been assured by their ability to be speak in tongues which is the evidence of there having received the Holy Spirit. Over the years most Pentecostals and certainly Evangelicals have taken the right stance in that we tend to keep them at arms distance, but they are still members of the Body of Christ.Well I wouldn't consider Pentecostal Oneness as representative of the Pentecostal faith. In my opinion I don't even count them as Christian, because they fail to believe in our Triune God. Sadly there are more than a few so-called Pentecostal churches that don't teach biblical accuracy or truth. One that comes to mind and is part of a larger group, is Todd Bentley. I am embarrassed to say he is Canadian.
On that I am not as convinced as you are. They don't preach the same gospel nor do they preach the same Jesus. Gal 1:8 and 2 Cor 11:13-15Even though the various Oneness groups have been a thorn in the side of the Full Gospel movement due to their additional common position that we have to speak in tongues to be Saved; they are still a part of the Body of Christ where their Salvation has been assured by their ability to be speak in tongues which is the evidence of there having received the Holy Spirit. Over the years most Pentecostals and certainly Evangelicals have taken the right stance in that we tend to keep them at arms distance, but they are still members of the Body of Christ.
I can at least understand your frustration with them!On that I am not as convinced as you are. They don't preach the same gospel nor do they preach the same Jesus. Gal 1:8 and 2 Cor 11:13-15
Excellent response. Thank you.I don't think it can be mimicked by All if you do happen to speak in a different language that you have never spoken in fluently ( which has occurred ) and the hearer knows this ... then it is a sign to them.
3 different spiritual tongues
Tounges of Men= you speak Arabic by miracle ..
Tounges of Angels = prayer language
And or praying in the spirit ( your spirit praying to God )
For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.’ (1 Corinthians 14:2)
Unknown tounges.. prophetic tounges
‘I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.’ (1 Corinthians 14:15)
One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself.’ (1 Corinthians 14:4)
The apostle Jude says that praying in the Spirit doesn’t only strengthen your inner being but it also keeps you in the love of God:
‘But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God.’ (Jude 1:20)
If you take another look at 1Cor 14:22-23 and particulary with Paul's use of σημεῖον semeion for our English word sign; when we consider that a sign can be used within the Scriptures either in a positive or a negative sense, when we connect semeion back to verse 21 where Paul makes reference to Isa 28:11, where the people of Jerusalem were confused and bewildered by the commands that the foreign invaders were giving in a strange tongue, we can connect these together, we can then understand that Paul is saying when everyone speaks in tongues during the congregational meeting, that an unsaved or cessationist visitor will understandably "say that we are mad"; where the use of uninterpreted tongues becomes a negative sign which will probably push them away from the Gospel.I don't think it can be mimicked by All if you do happen to speak in a different language that you have never spoken in fluently ( which has occurred ) and the hearer knows this ... then it is a sign to them. . .
1 Corinthians: 14. 21. In the Law it is written: "With other tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord." 22. Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers;
Paul linking the Corinthian tongues to Isaiah's prophecy is proof that the Corinthians were speaking in foreign human languages, and not some extra-terrestrial language (for which there is no biblical evidence). Isaiah warned the unfaithful Israelites that when foreign languages were heard in their midst it would be a sign against them. And in 1 Cor 14:21-22 Paul extends that prophecy to include the speaking of tongues, the only description of which is foreign human languages (Acts 2:4-11).
This is in addition to the plethora of evidence I gave in my previous post which also shows the tongues in Corinth were foriegn human languages - http://www.christianforums.com/threads/assembly-of-god-and-tongues.7955793/page-5#post-69872115
The proper equivalency of that verse is rendered as;
It is written in the law: “By people with strange tongues and by the lips of strangers I will speak to this people, yet not even in this way will they listen to me,” says the Lord.
The Greek conveys that these are new tongues, which in essence means never-before-heard.
Tongues is a spiritual language not a human language.
The NIV clearly renders it as "foreign lips and strange tongues", and the following link for others that say similarly;Paul is quoting Isaiah's prophecy from Isaiah 28:11-12. It is most definitely foreign languages that Isaiah is referring to. Every respected modern translation has the word "foreign" (NIV, NASB, ESV, etc). As Bibicist rightly pointed out above, and every commentary I've seen affirms, this prophecy was warning the unfaithful Jews that they would soon hear the foreign languages of the Assyrian invaders in their midst and how this was a sign of judgment against them.
Mark 16:17 and you're assuming that because the God-fearing Jews heard their own languages and acts to that that is what the apostles were speaking when in fact there were more languages represented than the 12 apostles. The fact is God caused them to hear their own language, it wasn't that the apostles were speaking their languages.Where is the evidence for that? The only description of the gift of tongues I can see is Acts 2:4-11, and it is clearly human languages.
The NIV clearly renders it as "foreign lips and strange tongues", and the following link for others that say similarly;
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=is 28:11-12&version=NIV;NET;NRSV;NLT;OJB
A foreign or strange tongue is not the same as a foreigner speaking their language/mother tongue.
The issue is not what Isaiah said, the issue is how Paul was using it, in that particular context.
Mark 16:17
you're assuming that because the God-fearing Jews heard their own languages and acts to that that is what the apostles were speaking when in fact there were more languages represented than the 12 apostles. The fact is God caused them to hear their own language, it wasn't that the apostles were speaking their languages.
This is how the main well respected translations render Isaiah 28:11:
NIV "Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues God will speak to this people,"
NASB "Indeed, He will speak to this people Through stammering lips and a foreign tongue"
ESV "For by people of strange lips and with a foreign tongue the Lord will speak to this people,"
Isaiah was referring to a foreign language, specifically the language of the Assyrians.
It is definitely not the same, as neither the Old Testament or New Testament uses the words 'foreign tongue' or 'foreign language'. You are imposing your understanding on to the scriptures.You've lost me there. A foreign tongue is exactly that - a foreign language.
No he's applying what Isaiah said in 28:11 to this instance as far as the sounds are concerned not as far as languages are concerned. See Ellicott above.Yes. And Paul is clearly relating the tongues in Corinth to the foreign human languages Isaiah was referring to.
Thayer's Definition of καινός (kainos)The word 'new' in Mark 16:17 doesn't mean new to the world, it means new to the disciples. If I said I learnt a new language, it doesn't mean a brand new language. The Greek word kainos means 'fresh, new, unused, novel' (Strong's concordance), not 'never before seen in the world'. See the word's other usages:
Matt 9:17 "Neither do people pour new wine into old wineskins."
Matt 27:60 "and laid it in his own new tomb"
Luke 5:36 "cloth from a new garment"
Eph 4:24 "and put on the new self"
The languages spoken at Pentecost certainly weren't brand new languages. They were the languages of the "Parthians, Medes, Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome; Cretans and Arabs."
The 'they' in Acts 2:1 refers to the 12 in Acts 1:26. Peter corroborates this in Acts 2:14-15 where it states;There were more than 12 apostles speaking in tongues. There were 120 of them. Acts 1:15 "Peter stood up among the believers (a group numbering about a hundred and twenty". Acts 2:1 "When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place". v4 "All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues"
Other tongues, γλῶσσα (glōssa), represented as spiritual by the tongues γλῶσσα (glōssa) of fire that appeared to rest on each one of them.The disciples most certainly were speaking in foreign languages:
Acts 2:4 "All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them. "
Acts 2:6 "each one heard their own language being spoken."
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