Ask me about Islaam

[Yusha']

Possessing an object is a human condition also, doesn't matter how much you spin it around.
Still reeks as anthropomorphic qualities, Allah has a face, but regardless it is a face even though no one has seen it.

It is a Face unlike any face. You simply fail to understand such a easy and basic idea, that is amazing. God exists and I exist, God has knowledge and I have knowledge, God is alive and I am alive. My understanding of God will only be anthropomorphic (man-like), if I say God exists like I exist, God has knowledge like I have knowledge, God is alive like I am alive, God has Two Hands like I have two hands, God has a Face like I have a face. The key word here is Like. As long as it is affirmed that God is unique in all respects and that there is nothing comparable to His attributes, then one becomes free from anthropomorphism.

Doesn't even apply, Christ was man, He was not man turned to God.

He also resurrected from the dead like no man did

Lazarus wasn't resurrected from the dead? Prophet Elijah عليه السلام didn't resurrect the dead? I'm surprised how much you so forcefully contradict your own holy scriptures.

and yet Muhammad is still dead.

So is Mary. But obviously that hasn't stopped you from worshipping her.

 

[Yusha']

Actually I have been pretty consistent in my argument. Mary is not worshiped. That is one consistent argument, regardless what definition you tag to it. Your argument would only hold water if you could prove worship of Mary

I have solidly proven that you worship Mary, you have yet to explain why God commanded the destruction of the bronze serpent, orginally an icon turned into an idol. How did it become an idol? The Israelites were incensing it, exactly how Christians incense images of Mary

Mary statues are not worshiped as god.

How did the Israelites worship the bronze serpent? By incensing it??

Which is a vague and perverted definition. Anything can fit the agenda here, anything can be falsehood. Falsehoods can be declared later on. That goes to show you the real inconsistent face of Islam and the reason of their barbaric chaos going on in the world today.

Islaam is very clear on what constitutes falsehood. You on the other hand cannot even say with confidence whether I am saved or not for rejecting Jesus to be my god.

Be consistent for once, you just said "Islaam declares global struggle against falsehood, and idol-worship is the greatest falsehood" You just forgot to give the definition of this "struggle"

The "struggle" is what I am doing right now by exposing how you worship idols.

 

[Yusha']

So? What were Jesus' sins according to your belief?

I don't know what his sins were, nor is it my job to find out. Every human being is a son or daughter of Adam, and every son, daughter of Adam commits sins. Jesus is no exception to this rule. God alone will judge us for our sins.

 

[Chesterton]

You mentioned earlier something about Saudi Arabia being the best most righteous society on earth. Why do think there is such great Muslim emigration to the West?

 

[Yusha']

Jesus said to them when they questioned how He knew Abraham, He said 'Before Abraham, I AM' which means God.

LOL there is absolutely no connection between "ego eimi" and YHWH.

He told them right to their faces He was God...He said 'I AM'...which is the name given to Moses when He asked God His name.

Actually, the name of God YHWH when translated is not "I AM", but "I AM THAT I AM" or "I WILL BE THAT WHICH I WILL BE". To say the phrase "ego eimi" corresponds to YHWH is an error to say the least.

St John says the Word was with God, the Word is God and the Word became Flesh.

"St" John basically plagiarized that from Philo of Alexandria, a Jewish philosopher.

Just because Jesus came to be one of us so He could die for us TO OPEN THE GATES OF HEAVEN... doesn't mean He was not God.

And why does Jesus have to die to open the gates of heaven? God doesn't have to die to do anything. He merely wills it to happen and it does.

Isaias said 'Born unto us a son and He shall be called God Almighty and the Father of the world to come...'
IE - God was going to be born unto us.

The name Emmanu-El means God with us, and it is actually referring to someone else, (read the context about Isaiah), I'll explain this later, inshaa Allaah. Similarly, possessing this kind of name does not make one God. These type of names are common in Hebrew. For example, look at the name of Elijah in Hebrew, which is Eliyahu, which basically means "El is Yah", or God is the Lord. Yet no one suggests from Elijah's name that he himself is God.

And i could go on and on and on with this. I could show you many verses of the OT and NT to show Jesus was the Messiah - Who is God.

Show me as many as you want, I will show you to be wrong in each and every case.

OT tells us incense was required by God in the Temple.
And the Revelation tells us prayers are like incense - pleasing to God.

Of course, incense is part of worship, thus its only to be for God. Yet Christians burn incense to Virgin Mary, I have a picture of the previous Pope burning incense to a statue of Virgin Mary, if you don't believe me I'll post it for you (though I think there's no point since most people know its a common Catholic practice).

 

[Yusha']

Indeed, it would be more fitting for the user to have posted 'God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit', but you can always tell how weak someone is in a debate when they degenerate the conversation into grammatical mistakes.

Jokes aside, I was actually making a very valid point that the trinity is simply illogical. discussing with a Christian, he said, 1+1+1=1, I said bring a little girl, she is like 4 or 5 years old, and ask her does 1+1+1=1? And obviously she laughs. If the trinity makes a little girl (a Christian girl) laugh, how do you think adult non-Christians view it?

It cannot even be expressed in English in a sentence without containing grammatical errors.

The words of Jesus are enough to shatter the trinity: "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is ONE".

Interesting that Jesus never taught anything close to a trinity idea, and never once claimed to be God.

 

[Yusha']

What role does the Holy Spirit play is Islam?

Islaam teaches that the Holy Spirit is none other than Angel Gabriel. Gabriel being the angel that conveys revelation to prophets and reveals mysteries to them, which is the exact job description of the Holy Spirit (to inspire and reveal mysteries). Thus it is only logical to conclude that Gabriel is the holy spirit, the holy spirit is an angel, not God.

What role does demons and Satan play in Islam?

Satan is the evil one who tries to deceive humanity by whispering evil suggestions to them. Demons, or satans with a lower case "s", are lesser devils that follow him.

If Allah and YWAH are the same God (as we discussed before), then why is there the division? It seems to me that when Abraham and Sarah had Ismaiel they did it without God, but when God performed a miracle for Sarah to have Isaac, then Isaac was God's choice. To me that is where the division takes place.

God promised that He would make Ishmael into a great nation, a blessed nation, and he would be the father of twelve great princes.

There can only be one God, so someone is off. I am a follower of Yeshua, and of His truth, and His whole Word - the Word of God - from Gen to Revelations speaks of Yeshua coming to be our propitiation.

Yeshua never said he is god, rather Yeshua himself prayed to the One True God, falling down upon his face in the garden of gethsemane, praying to God to save him.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I don't know what his sins were, nor is it my job to find out. Every human being is a son or daughter of Adam, and every son, daughter of Adam commits sins. Jesus is no exception to this rule. God alone will judge us for our sins.

Do the Muslims realize Jesus was to be a King/Priest on the order of Melchizedek?

Hebrew 4:15 For we have not a high-priest unable to have fellow-feeling with our weaknesses, but one tested in all respects, by way of likeness, apart from sin.

Hebrews 7:1 For this the Malkiy-Tsedeq King of Salem, Priest of the God/'El of the most-high, the together-joining Abraham turning-back from the smiting of the kings and blesses/euloghsaV <2127> (5660) him [Genesis 14:18/Matt 26:26]

Kindgdom Bible Studies Royal Priesthood Part 24

One of the most intriguing descriptions of the unique character of the High Priesthood of Jesus is found in Heb. 7:17 wherein it is stated, "Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek." This one grand statement shows that Jesus is not like any of the other priests who the people of Israel knew so much about. The entire seventh chapter of Hebrews is about THE MELCHIZEDEK CONNECTION,

 

[fm107]

Can you clarify what you mean by lying about your beliefs?

Is it ok to lie to someone if it means you are able to convert them to Islam?

I don't think you got round to answering this.

 

[WarriorAngel]

And according to modern laws of the West, 14 year old is a no-no. Thus we see the age when a child becomes an adult and therefore eligible for marriage is not universally defined, but rather culturally defined. It was common in middle eastern culture for girls to get married early. Also, you know there is a famous story of a thai girl who is 9 years old that gave birth to a child. Obviously it proves puberty for girls can come at such an early age as 9 for girls, thus in all cultures 9 year old girl can be considered no more as a child but as a young adult who can even get married.

In today's standards 14 is young, but back in the days of the Lord, life spans were shorter and 50 was a very old person.

They lived shorter lives and married around the age 14 and 15.

Still - its not getting married at age 6 and having intercourse at age 9 - NOW is it??

LOL if you typed that sentence in microsoft word, a green line would appear under it informing you of a grammatical mistake (fragment consider revising). You can either change it to ARE Gods or IS God.

Actually they are Three in One and thay ARE God, because it is grammatically correct, altho the Essense of God is not humanly comprehensible.

And if you change it to IS God you have another grammatical mistake according to microsoft word, because three things can't be one!

SO you're basing the Essense of God on a computer program.
Ok, i can see you will never even attempt to do as Jesus said and have faith as a child.

That's the only way to understand God, by not trying to - and not putting Him in a box of human finite comprehension.

He is outside the scope of our understanding, but God is God - so who dares to tell Him He is not what He says He is..?

Wow, the book of revelation describes future events, the event in particular is after the rapture. No one is in heaven right now, because we will only go to heaven or hell AFTER the resurrection which hasn't even happened yet.

I am Catholic - we dont believe in the rapture.
Just to help you understand this.

And the human soul does go to Heaven, Revelation says that no man in Heaven can read the book of life.

Well, clue is - what are men doing in Heaven in the first place if we have to wait? Hmm?
Obviously the book cannot be read by men in Heaven while ppl are still alive on earth...
So conclusion is - the soul goes immediately to Judgement and the Last days the rest will be judged....who are on earth.
As well as souls in purgatory.
Who btw are going to Heaven, their reward will be meted out.

Lot came before God commanded Israel to not bow to idols or images.

Idols and images who are gods to the ppl who are bowing to the - is worship. idols ARE their gods...

Bowing is a sign of veneration... as i said - hmm - how many times now?

And how do you know what was in John's heart. Only God knows what is in your heart, so how could the Angel rebuke John, unless angels, along with God, know what is in your heart. Obviously the angel can't see what is in his heart, but the angel can see that Mr. John is prostrating to him, and the Angel knows that is forbidden, and so the angel chastises Mr. John for doing so.

Evidently - God can menifest our hearts to Heavenly beings...

Read Luke - refering to Mary...

Luke 2
35 And thy own soul a sword shall pierce, that, out of many hearts, thoughts may be revealed.

Not a single prophecy mentions that the messiah will be God Himself.

I already showed Isaias did...

He never said "all" prophets after him will be false. Furthermore, your beloved St. Paul said that the gift of prophecy can still be attained, after Jesus left (1 Corinthians 14:1), now why would Mr. Paul say you should desire the gift of prophecy if all the prophets that come after Jesus must necessarily be false?

Anyone claiming to change what He taught - yeah!

Matthew 24
10 And then shall many be scandalized: and shall betray one another: and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall seduce many. 12 And because iniquity hath abounded, the charity of many shall grow cold. 13 But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom, shall be preached in the whole world, for a testimony to all nations, and then shall the consummation come. 15 When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place: he that readeth let him understand.


Question ??
Do you follow the Gospel of Christ? Or do you follow someone else?
Its that simple.

And according to your creed, the holy spirit is always present, even at the time of Jesus the holy spirit was there was he not? But according to John 16, the prophecy of the counsellor or spirit of truth indicates that he can only come when Jesus leaves, so obviously he's not talking about the holy spirit. Also, according to the prophecy, the spirit of truth will speak only that which he hears, that which is revealed to him. However, all christians believe that the Holy Spirit does not receive revelation like a prophet, rather the holy spirit is itself the vehicle through which God reveals things to the prophets.

Who said the Holy Spirit was always there?
The Holy Spirit came upon them like fire and gave them courage and they ran out to preach and they spoke one language - but every person there - heard them in their own tongue.

And if the Holy Spirit was assisting them - from the start - then why was Jesus teaching them, and they still had troubles understanding it all?

Gifts of the Holy Spirit:
They are the gifts of wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety (godliness), and fear of the Lord.

• The gift of wisdom, by detaching us from the world, makes us relish and love only the things of heaven.
• The gift of understanding helps us to grasp the truths of religion as far as is necessary.
• The gift of counsel springs from supernatural prudence, and enables us to see and choose correctly what will help most to the glory of God and our own salvation.
• By the gift of fortitude we receive courage to overcome the obstacles and difficulties that arise in the practice of our religious duties.
• The gift of knowledge points out to us the path to follow and the dangers to avoid in order to reach heaven.
• The gift of piety, by inspiring us with a tender and filial confidence in God, makes us joyfully embrace all that pertains to His service.
• Lastly, the gift of fear fills us with a sovereign respect for God, and makes us dread, above all things, to offend Him.

Then Jesus promised when He left them, Hthe Advocate [Holy SPirit] would come upon them and they would remember everything.
AND as I said above - they went out to preach immediately upon the inception of the Holy Spirit....without fear. Whereas just previously - they were trembling with fear.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Lies, lies, and more lies.

Do you have a better argument?

You are not arguing with an atheist, but you are arguing like an atheist, objecting to Islaam's rules pertaining to dogs which you simply don't understand.

Why? What is wrong using a little bit of reason and logic? The rules pertaining to the saliva of dogs are scientifically absurd and it doesn't make any sense. What is not to understand here, please explain?

I never said it is a physical satisfactional act. I merely suggested that why are the rules so rigid when it comes to eucharist and seemingly so illogical? Why wine only and why bread only?

Because it is scriptural and theological. Christ is the bread and wine, His Body and Blood which we partake, this is necessary for us. This has nothing to do with condemning all dogs demon-possessed and unclean. There is no logic in it as dogs are pretty useful to mankind. The irony is that they are demon-possessed yet they are used for labor and certain fields of work under Islam.

There is no logical answer except what you affirmed previously "Because God commanded it".

I already explained that Communion is not done solely because of a commandment, there is much depth to it, such as Christian partaking in the Divine nature for the forgiveness of sins. The history of the ban of dogs solely based on Muhammad's fear of them, which is not theological AT ALL. There is no theological basis for God to refuse one's prayer because a dog passed in front of them, this is almost fatalistic thought because the one can not control if the dog passes in front of them or not.

Of course there are rules for communion, you have to eat bread and drink wine (you cant substitute those for something else).

That is not due to superstition though, that is difference from the hatred for dogs in Islam.

If you want to keep a dog in your house be my guest. I think nit-picking about such issues just shows that you have really nothing in your arsenal to attack Islaam except talking about dogs.

I don't have a dog, because we both work and we might not be able to take care of the poor thing. I have tons in my arsenal if that is what you want, but I don't go to islamic forums and try to "invite" them to Christianity. My function here is to prevent certain people from spreading baseless accusations against my faith, which is what you do. Your function should be answering the questions that regards to your faith, not assuming details of others' faith.

I mentioned before you have a very narrow understanding of worship.

Yes you did, probably 7 times already, but it is just that you repeat it, that doesn't mean much to me. We worship the way Christians always worshiped, we don't need silly rituals like washing ourselves 7 times to make Allah pleased. That is not the way we understand worship.

Islaam teaches us to obey all the commandments of Allaah, that is the purpose of the shareeah. One cannot get close to Allaah if one is intentionally disobeying His commands.

Faith in God is deeper than a slave/master relationship. It is personal, not communal.

Btw, what is the reason in the Torah for God commanding the Israelites various things, like, don't eat pork, don't eat shrimp, don't eat milk and beef together, ensure the dishes where milk is prepared are separate from dishes and utensils that come into contact with beef, etc. By your line of reasoning, these commandments are not equally as "absurd" or "illogical" as Islaam's rules pertaining to dogs?

God set Israelites apart from the other tribes and their faiths in certain false gods but not God of Abraham by these commandments. Islam's rule pertaining dogs and their saliva has no significant theological stance, that is why it is superstitiously absurd.

How can you hear "revelations" unless you are the one receiving them? Your objections make absolutely no sense!

Really? It is supposed to be a visitation by an entity that poses as an angel, not Muhammad dreaming it all. If Gabriel was "witnessed" by Muhammad's companions indeed, then there is no reason for them not to hear these revelations, unfortunately, that never happens, we never know who is revealing what...

You were once a Muslim. I feel sorry for your parents, especially your mother that her son has left Islaam. she must be going through much distress. My thoughts and prayers are with her.

Actually this is quite interesting, because my mom is a universalist New Ager... She approves it all. Though I wonder why should she distress about? Because I do believe that Islam is a false religion and made my case to my family about it.

But if you want to continue worshipping idols of virgin mary, that is your free choice and no one can stop you. All we can do is pray that Allaah guides these people to worship only One God and to turn away from idol-worship (ameen)

That is actually more interesting. We Eastern Orthodox do not even have Virgin Mary's statues, or idols or whatever you seem to grasp in your narrow understanding of our means of worship, Catholics do have her statues, I was defending their position, because I know for a fact that they do not worship Mary. Pray that so you can look and see beyond your anger and barriers.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

And according to modern laws of the West, 14 year old is a no-no.

False. With parental consent, states allow 14-16 year olds to obtain marriage certificates. Thus your point is moot. No state allow a 6 year old for the same thing, let alone 9 years old to have sex. Prepare your argument better. There is a huge difference between 6 and 14 and in one case God's will is apparent through His messenger angel, the other one is upon a carnal dream.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Indeed, it would be more fitting for the user to have posted 'God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit', but you can always tell how weak someone is in a debate when they degenerate the conversation into grammatical mistakes.

 

[Nooj]

You mentioned earlier something about Saudi Arabia being the best most righteous society on earth. Why do think there is such great Muslim emigration to the West?

I find it hilarious that all the Muslims I've talked to think that Saudi Arabia is an atrocious society by religious standards, not to mention political e.g. collaborating with America, whereas a Salafi Muslim thinks it's great. Shouldn't Muslims of the Salafi stripe hate SA even more?

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Here is how you argue. You first claim something, we answer. You ignore that answer and set a new claim that sets a condition you already planned how to respond to, we answer again completely shutting you off, but you respond with what you planned earlier anyway because you are out of an argument. You must be in desperate state...

So here you admit that the church teaches that you should incense relics and icons, supposedly to show respect and devotion to God's special friends (i.e. Virgin Mary and the saints).

Yet the God of the Old Testament (whom you are constantly trying to escape) has severely condemned incensing any image or icon. You said that the bronze serpent was originally an image or an icon, not an idol. But it became an idol and that why God ordered it to be destroyed.

I knew this was coming, that is why I said the trap you already set will not work, because again you conveniently ignore the fact that those specific Jews carried the valid practice of censing to the invalid, this is why God rebuked them. I don't need to escape anyone just because you seem to think so, I believe in the God of OT who is also my Savior. The incensing by Jews, although it was not produced following the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE, the composition of the ancient Temple incense for future use in a restored Temple as part of daily Jewish services is studied by Orthodox Judaism...

However, you conveniently forgot to mention how it went from being a mere icon to a full-fledged idol....the israelites began to incense it (just like you incense "icons" of virgin mary).

Censing doesn't convert something from one state to another. It was the actions and behavior Jews in regards to this object that condemned them. If you are even attempting to entertain the silly notion that we turn the icons into idols by censing them, you have to try better, because you already tried bowing, prostrating and other nonsense ascribed to us.

So there's another example of how you worship virgin mary, not only do you bow to her image, make pilgrimages to shrines containing her image, pray to her image, but on top of all that you even incense her image!

Nonsense, we cense the icons of saints to, why are you so stuck with Virgin Mary? Because you don't know any other argument... At the Vespers service, the Church sings from Psalm 141: "Let my prayer arise in Your sight as incense, and let the lifting up of my hands, be as an evening sacrifice." Incense has always been a part of the worship of God. There are many references to the burning of incense in the Old Testament as I already mentioned.

Still want to deny you don't worship virgin Mary? Be my guest, you will have to answer to the One True God for that.

I never agreed that we worshiped Virgin Mary to being with, denial is something you reject given the proven existence of the fact, refusal to acknowledge it, like Muhammad's denial of Christ's Crucifixion, we never worshiped Virgin Mary or saints, but only God, your misconceptions don't make use so, and you are yet to bring forth a challenging argument other than repeating "Christians worship Virgin Mary" What you commit is called argumentum ad nauseam, look it up. It is indeed true that everyone will answer to God, fortunately not to you.

 

[WarriorAngel]

[/b]

LOL there is absolutely no connection between "ego eimi" and YHWH.


Why did they pick up stones if they misunderstood Him?
They knew what He said, and He slipped away from them - but they wanted to stone Him for 'making Himself' God - of which He didnt recant.

Actually, the name of God YHWH when translated is not "I AM", but "I AM THAT I AM" or "I WILL BE THAT WHICH I WILL BE". To say the phrase "ego eimi" corresponds to YHWH is an error to say the least.



"St" John basically plagiarized that from Philo of Alexandria, a Jewish philosopher.

And why does Jesus have to die to open the gates of heaven? God doesn't have to die to do anything. He merely wills it to happen and it does.

Look disobedience and 'agreement to sin against God' makes humanity impure. Adam and Eve collectively betrayed God, they obviously didnt trust Him, they disobeyed Him directly and they choose the serpent [satan] over God Who gave them EVERYTHING...instead believing lies about Him.
That wasnt so nice, now was it?
Especially to be in His Benevolent Presense and feel His awesomeness.

So God knew - since He is All powerful and Loving that HE and only HE could show us the brutality of that sin and take it upon Himself to bear the weight of it.

Can He erase our nature after we knew good from bad?
Not unless He would remove all traces of our free will.

And if removed our free will, then the creation of man to return love back to Him would be totally moot point.

No one else on earth can ever surpass His love, and His generosity, and His willingness to show us the depth of His love - a Perfect Being taking on our sins because we never could. Not only because we wouldnt be able to bear it, but also we are tainted with the first sin of all humanity that led to the seperation from God - since no sin can enter in the Presense of Heaven.

With sin, we could never make such a sacrifice. Animals would never be a pure sacrifice..only God Himself could sacrifice Himself to maintain our free will, while giving us the option to believe in Him and go to Heaven to BE with HIM eternally.

The name Emmanu-El means God with us, and it is actually referring to someone else, (read the context about Isaiah), I'll explain this later, inshaa Allaah. Similarly, possessing this kind of name does not make one God. These type of names are common in Hebrew. For example, look at the name of Elijah in Hebrew, which is Eliyahu, which basically means "El is Yah", or God is the Lord. Yet no one suggests from Elijah's name that he himself is God.

Listen...Jesus is God..

Yeshua [Jesus] is the Hebrew (Yehoshua) or Hebrew-Aramaic (Yeshua), meaning "YHWH (Yahweh) rescues"; while Yahweh is an extention of the Tetragrammaton YHWH used by early Hebrew writers to signify the "unpronouncable" name of God.

Yahweh said; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seeds seed, saith Yahweh, from henceforth and for ever. Isaiah 59:21

And the spirit of Yahweh shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Yahweh; Isa 11:2


"Father, Son and Spirit - Immanuel"
And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. Jn 12:50

The Apostle John wrote, "Whosoever shall confess that Yosef is the Son of Elohim, Elohim dwelleth in him" (1Jn 4:15).

Ge 2:7 And Yahweh Elohim formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.

Ge 3:19 For dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.

Yosef, the Son of Elohim, however, is an exception to this. He didn't come into existence through the means of procreation as given to Adam and Eve. He was conceived in the womb of Mary, a virgin, by the Holy Spirit. Though His flesh body was made of the woman, Mary, the life within Him didn't come from Adam.


Jn 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man
Jn 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out* from Yahweh. 28 I came forth* from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.


Yosef was born a man 100&#37; , 1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Yosef is come in the flesh is not of Elohim: and this is that spirit of Antimessiah , whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Yosef Messiah is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an Antimessiah .


Yahshua became Immanuel when the Holy Spirit descend on Him as a Dove. Immanuel - Elohim with us. And, take a good look at that verse ,it says the Spirit of Yahweh remained on him!!! It is Yahweh that is Yahshua who is the Savior, for its the Holy Spirit who saved us.


We are told we will call him Immanuel - Elohim with us,it did not say Immanuel was his name.

Show me as many as you want, I will show you to be wrong in each and every case.



Of course, incense is part of worship, thus its only to be for God. Yet Christians burn incense to Virgin Mary, I have a picture of the previous Pope burning incense to a statue of Virgin Mary, if you don't believe me I'll post it for you (though I think there's no point since most people know its a common Catholic practice).

The Pope seeks her assistance to Her Son...and burning insense pleases GOD....
I dont know why you dont get that...

Mary is the messenger [MOTHER - FRIEND - HELPER] to the Son Who is God.
And no one gets to the Father except thru the Son.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

The simple answer is because he preached that Jesus is God

Show me where... I am curious how you are going to attempt to set this argument.

as well as many other weird stuff (like there's nothing wrong with eating meat sacrificed to idols).

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Romans 14:14 [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]
1 Corinthians 10:25-27 (also 1 Cor 8:4-8) [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, for, "The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it." [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]If some unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]
Acts 15:29 [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]
1 Corinthians 10:20-21 [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]...the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons. [/FONT]
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Revelation 2:20 [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. [/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][/FONT]Paul's teaching, which he explains in Romans 14:14-23 and 1 Corinthians 8:4-13, is that eating food sacrificed to idols is not wrong in and of itself, but is better avoided for the sake of Christians who think it is wrong and would consequently be led into sin (Rom 14:23).
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]While eating food that has been sacrificed to idols is not wrong, participating in idol worship is. Part of the idol worship of the time may have involved sacrificing meat to an idol and then feasting on the meat in celebration of the idol. In this case, participating in the feast would be participating in the worship of the idol, just as partaking of Communion is an act of worshiping Christ - a parallel Paul draws in 1 Corinthians 10:15-18. Therefore vv. 20-21 refer to eating sacrificed meat at an idol feast and thus practicing idolatry (as opposed to buying sacrificed meat in the market, or eating sacrificed meat at an ordinary meal in someone's home). [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]The condemnation of eating sacrificed meat in Acts 15:29 and Revelation 2:20 probably refers to participation in an idol feast, but could also refer to the sin of leading others into sin by eating it (1 Cor 8:10-12). [/FONT]

We believe that if indeed he did have a vision on the road to damascus, it must have been a vision of the devil and not Jesus.

Yea? Based on what source you believe that he had a vision? The fact that same vision appeared to another man foretelling him that Paul will to come to him? The transformation of Paul from persecutor to believer in Christ? Or that he went into a cave and an entity who called himself an angel physically abused him to the point of killing him?

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Allaah is the same God as the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Aaron, etc., There is only One God, the same God who commands that His believers stay away from idols and worship Him alone.

And that is what believers do. These believers don't accuse and judge each other on worship of God without knowing the content of their hearts, or at least their theology... Islam is not in this category, it is a false religion that tries to belong by irreconcilable claims to an Abrahamic faith where in reality there are no connections other than arabs being descendants of Ishmael. That is some stretch.

The Throne is a creation of Allaah, glorifying Him and a testament to His Might and Holiness. He does not "sit" on it like a man sits on a chair, He is above the Throne in a manner befitting His Majesty.

Throne is THE creation, or A creation because how you word this will make a difference, in both cases, the word throne will still be not applicable.

You obviously are afraid to address why the Bible affirms a throne for God (yet you want to criticize the Islaamic idea that Allaah possesses a throne - very hypocritical of you). There is a saying: "don't throw rocks at someone's house if your own house is made of glass".

Look who is talking and calling me "hypocritical". I am not afraid to address any nonsense you post here, that is why this thread is over 35 pages... By your admission, God's throne in the Bible is not applicable to Islamic definition so what are you trying to gain by comparing these definitions when they don't compare? The throne of God is by far the most exclusive place in existence. “The Lord has established His throne in the heavens, and His kingdom rules over all.” Psalm 103:19. It is exclusively God’s. It’s been occupied since before time. “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever.” Psalm 45:6 / Hebrews 1:8 It’s never been vacant and never will be. The character of God has always been to give and to share. He gives eternal life to those who believe in the Person and personal work of Christ in their lives. He delegates amazing authority to people. But He will not share His throne! While we read of many other thrones in the courtrooms of heaven, occupied by people and angels (See Dan. 7), the throne of God stays exclusively His.

It is important for believers to understand the meaning and manifestation of the throne of God in our lives. We should welcome its presence. In fact, when we experience the presence of the Lord, His throne is never far. It is much more than a seat to sit in. It represents authority, power, rule and dominion. See this is not a repetition of the boring line "above the Throne in a manner befitting His Majesty"

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

It is a Face unlike any face. You simply fail to understand such a easy and basic idea, that is amazing. God exists and I exist, God has knowledge and I have knowledge, God is alive and I am alive. My understanding of God will only be anthropomorphic (man-like), if I say God exists like I exist, God has knowledge like I have knowledge, God is alive like I am alive, God has Two Hands like I have two hands, God has a Face like I have a face. The key word here is Like. As long as it is affirmed that God is unique in all respects and that there is nothing comparable to His attributes, then one becomes free from anthropomorphism.

What you don't seem grasp yet is that anthropomorphism in this context is simply the attribution of human motivation, characteristics, or behavior to God. Earlier you contested God's face is NOTHING like yours, now He has a face like yours. The more you try to sugar-coat it, the clearer it becomes that human characteristics are attributed to Allah regardless how much you spin it around to mean him having "unique" anthropomorphic characteristics, they are still human characteristics. When was it that you counted Allah had two hands but not more? Yes I thought so.

Lazarus wasn't resurrected from the dead? Prophet Elijah didn't resurrect the dead? I'm surprised how much you so forcefully contradict your own holy scriptures.

It is important to understand that there is a difference between raising a person from the dead and resurrecting a person. Jesus did not resurrect Lazarus. Although not stated in the Bible, Lazarus later died. A person that is resurrected CANNOT DIE AGAIN. That was one of Jesus' main reasons for appearing after His Resurrection -- to show us what awaits us after death. Most of the others mentioned, apart from Jesus himself, were raised from clinical death, as they were all returned to their earthly bodies and carried on with their earthly lives until they died again, this time for keeps. Personally, I usually define this as being raised from the dead, indicating that the previous threads of human life are taken up again. Jesus, however, really died. He did not return to his earthly human life. He was not raised from the dead, but resurrected into his eternal body, which does seem to have been changed in some degree from his appearance during his earthly life, as at times people who knew him well did not recognize him. This is the true resurrection from the dead, in which the weak, earthly body is transformed into a glorious spiritual body, capable of living eternally in the glory of God's direct presence.

So is Mary. But obviously that hasn't stopped you from worshipping her.

Christians do not worship Mary, too bad your psychological state of defeat and anger seems to be preventing clear thought process. Her status of sainthood is a clear declaration how much she was loved by God and now she is with her Son, pitiful that Muhammad could not even tell where he was going to end up, heaven or hell.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

No I don't realize that. Anyways, my purpose is not to evangelize my own beliefs, as I made that clear from the outset. My purpose is only to answer questions about Islaam, and explain to people why Islaam considers christianity to be worshipping Virgin Mary.

So is that why you posted a private message from LLOJ, I guess with that logic, LLOJ declaring himself as a Christian, he is either not a Christian, or you don't know what you are talking about, going around accusing entire Christendom.

I believe I have already made my case pretty strong and its there for anyone who wants to sincerely reflect on it.

Your case is this "Christians worship idols" "Christianity worships Virgin Mary" That is it. Pretty tough case really.

I don't believe arguments can change people's minds, but I believe prayer can. So constantly pray to God to give us guidance and make us realize the truth, if you pray with a pure and sincere heart, than you will definitely reach the truth, because in Islaam it is said that if you walk one step towards Allaah He will come running to you.

Ethnocentrism is one of the greatest plague of these arrogant muslims, because the only truth to them comes from Muhammad's Islam, these pathetic requests for Christians to pray for truth arrogantly ignore that Christians believe that Christ said in the Scriptures "He is the way and the TRUTH and the LIFE" ...

You may not appreciate me discussing about some matters, but others do, I will give example of Lamb who sent the following private message to me (I hope he doesn't mind me making the message public, there is nothing personal in the message, but in case he does object I apologize beforehand and ask him to forgive me):

Apologizing beforehand justifies breaking the rules ?? That must be islamic thinking then. Now what are you trying to accomplish though?
a) LLOJ represents entire Christendom
b) LLOJ doesn't follow, believe or know Apostolic Doctrine therefore he is a true source
c) Christianity worships Mary but LLOJ said he doesn't agree with Apostolic doctrine, therefore Orthodox and Catholic bodies represents Christian body alone... inconsistencies go on and on...