Ask me about Islaam

[Yusha']

What is the logical reason to "possess" a throne for the being who has it all... You are constantly having to clarify?? That sounds familiar.
The topic is not God of the Bible, it is Muhammad's Allah.

Allaah is the same God as the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Aaron, etc., There is only One God, the same God who commands that His believers stay away from idols and worship Him alone.

The Throne is a creation of Allaah, glorifying Him and a testament to His Might and Holiness. He does not "sit" on it like a man sits on a chair, He is above the Throne in a manner befitting His Majesty.

You obviously are afraid to address why the Bible affirms a throne for God (yet you want to criticize the Islaamic idea that Allaah possesses a throne - very hypocritical of you). There is a saying: "don't throw rocks at someone's house if your own house is made of glass".

 

[Yusha']

Do Muslims believe Mary was sinless?

http://www.christianforums.com/t4343369/
Pope Benedict XVI proclaims Mary to be sinless!

No human being is sinless. All of us require the mercy of Allaah.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

No human being is sinless. All of us require the mercy of Allaah.

My bro Saul/Paul mentioned something about that

1 Corinthians 15:22 For just as in the Adam all are dying/apo-qnhskousin <599> (5719), so also in the Christ all shall be being made alive. [Genesis 5:5]

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

I did indeed say that the golden calf was an accessory. In fact, you even suggested that Aaron had good intentions for making the golden calf, because he felt that it will be used to worship God! you see how far you have gone astray trying to justify your idol-worship of Mary!

Actually I have been pretty consistent in my argument. Mary is not worshiped. That is one consistent argument, regardless what definition you tag to it. Your argument would only hold water if you could prove worship of Mary and then tie it to Aaron's golden calf. Calf was taken as a replacement to God, that was a distorted purpose. Virgin Mary is not worshiped like the calf was. Capish yet?

And so i repeat my question: what is the difference between a golden calf and marble statue of Mary? How is worship of one condemned to the point of mass slaughter and worship of the other considered a righteous act?

Mary statues are not worshiped as god.

Islaam declares global struggle against falsehood,

Which is a vague and perverted definition. Anything can fit the agenda here, anything can be falsehood. Falsehoods can be declared later on. That goes to show you the real inconsistent face of Islam and the reason of their barbaric chaos going on in the world today.

and the Quraan refers to idol-worship as the greatest falsehood.

Good for you then, Christians do not worship idols.

Idol-worship is condemned severely throughout the Torah. Read the history of the prophets of the Old Testament, killing others was justified in the Name of YHWH against those perverted pagans who worship idols.

and the God of the Torah is the God who condemns idol-worship and sanctions killing of idol-worshippers again and again. Yet Islaam is condemned for teaching of jihaad against idol-worshippers, how ironic!

Be consistent for once, you just said "Islaam declares global struggle against falsehood, and idol-worship is the greatest falsehood" You just forgot to give the definition of this "struggle"

 

[Beckyy25]

Jesus was not sinless, all children of Adam commit sins, that includes Jesus &#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1607; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1604;&#1575;&#1605;

So? What were Jesus' sins according to your belief?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So? What were Jesus' sins according to your belief?

He was born of "sinful" flesh, but His Divine nature made Him innocent

Gala 4:4 When yet came the filling of the time, sends forth, the God, the Son of Him, becoming/genomenon <1096> out of woman becoming/genomenon <1096> under Law.

 

[Beckyy25]

He was born of "sinful" flesh, but His Divine nature made Him innocent

Gala 4:4 When yet came the filling of the time, sends forth, the God, the Son of Him, becoming/genomenon <1096> out of woman becoming/genomenon <1096> under Law.

Sure Jesus was sinless! There is not doubt about that! I just want to hear what Yusha' has to say about that from the POV of his belief.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Sure Jesus was sinless! There is not doubt about that! I just want to hear what Yusha' has to say about that from the POV of his belief.

okie dokie

Matthew 17:5 Still of-Him speaking, behold! a cloud, luminous, over-shadows them.
And behold! a Voice out of the cloud saying "this is the Son of Me, the Beloved, in whom I delight, be ye hearing Him!". [Deut 18]

 

[Beckyy25]

okie dokie

Matthew 17:5 Still of-Him speaking, behold! a cloud, luminous, over-shadows them.
And behold! a Voice out of the cloud saying "this is the Son of Me, the Beloved, in whom I delight, be ye hearing Him!". [Deut 18]

 

[Yusha']

14 when she was BETROTHED.
She never had intimacies with Joseph, he was her protector and Christ's protector.

And according to modern laws of the West, 14 year old is a no-no. Thus we see the age when a child becomes an adult and therefore eligible for marriage is not universally defined, but rather culturally defined. It was common in middle eastern culture for girls to get married early. Also, you know there is a famous story of a thai girl who is 9 years old that gave birth to a child. Obviously it proves puberty for girls can come at such an early age as 9 for girls, thus in all cultures 9 year old girl can be considered no more as a child but as a young adult who can even get married.

Yea, because the Father, Son and Holy Spirit ARE God.

LOL if you typed that sentence in microsoft word, a green line would appear under it informing you of a grammatical mistake (fragment consider revising). You can either change it to ARE Gods or IS God.

And if you change it to IS God you have another grammatical mistake according to microsoft word, because three things can't be one!

So says who?
Do you honestly think the Saints in Heaven written in Revelation are not judging the nations...?

And to judge, they have to see and hear.

Wow, the book of revelation describes future events, the event in particular is after the rapture. No one is in heaven right now, because we will only go to heaven or hell AFTER the resurrection which hasn't even happened yet.

LOT BOWED DOWN TO ANGELS - AND THEY DIDNT TELL HIM NOT TO, NOR DID THEY CLAIM HE WAS WORSHIPPING THEM...

...did ya see that one?

Lot came before God commanded Israel to not bow to idols or images.

Apparently John's heart was in worship - that does mean the gesture was worship.

And how do you know what was in John's heart. Only God knows what is in your heart, so how could the Angel rebuke John, unless angels, along with God, know what is in your heart. Obviously the angel can't see what is in his heart, but the angel can see that Mr. John is prostrating to him, and the Angel knows that is forbidden, and so the angel chastises Mr. John for doing so.

And the prophecy and 40 authors to Christ make it certain - and Jesus Himself, that HE is God

Not a single prophecy mentions that the messiah will be God Himself.

And Jesus said - succintly and with clarity that no man can come to Father [Who is God] except thru Him....and all other prophets and christs after Him would be FALSE.

He never said "all" prophets after him will be false. Furthermore, your beloved St. Paul said that the gift of prophecy can still be attained, after Jesus left (1 Corinthians 14:1), now why would Mr. Paul say you should desire the gift of prophecy if all the prophets that come after Jesus must necessarily be false?

That is the Holy Spirit Whom is part of God. The SPirit of God.
Really i am running late...ttyl

And according to your creed, the holy spirit is always present, even at the time of Jesus the holy spirit was there was he not? But according to John 16, the prophecy of the counsellor or spirit of truth indicates that he can only come when Jesus leaves, so obviously he's not talking about the holy spirit. Also, according to the prophecy, the spirit of truth will speak only that which he hears, that which is revealed to him. However, all christians believe that the Holy Spirit does not receive revelation like a prophet, rather the holy spirit is itself the vehicle through which God reveals things to the prophets.

 

[Yusha']

What dost thou makest of Matt 26:64

Matthew 26:64 Is saying to him the Jesus "thou say, moreover I am saying to ye from present/now ye shall be seeing the Son of the Man sitting out of rights of the power and coming upon the clouds of the heaven". [Reve 1:7]

Islaam also teaches that Jesus the promised messiah &#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1607; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1604;&#1575;&#1605; will return to this world from the sky, and he will complete his original work as the messiah. The messiah was suppose to create a holy society in which the wolf, lion, and sheep all live together in peace and the laws of God are enforced. However, he could not accomplish this during his first advent because the Jews rejected him, so God took him away and he will come back again to establish a holy kingdom on Earth.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Islaam also teaches that Jesus the promised messiah &#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1607; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1604;&#1575;&#1605; will return to this world from the sky, and he will complete his original work as the messiah. The messiah was suppose to create a holy society in which the wolf, lion, and sheep all live together in peace and the laws of God are enforced. However, he could not accomplish this during his first advent because the Jews rejected him, so God took him away and he will come back again to establish a holy kingdom on Earth.

Interesting and I agree. My bro Saul/Paul also agrees

Matthew 24:3 Of sitting yet of Him upon the Mount of the Olives toward-came to Him the Disciples according to own saying "be telling to us when? shall these-things be and what? the Sign of the Thy ParousiaV <3952> and the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age" [Daniel 12/Revelation 15:1]

1 Corin 15:23 Each yet in the own rank, a firstfruit Christ, thereafter the ones of the Christ in the Parousia <3952> of Him
24 thereafter the End/teloV <5056>, whenever He may be giving up the Kingdom to the God and Father, when He shall be nullifying/katarghsh <2673> (5661) every sovereignty/Chief and every authority and power.

 

[WarriorAngel]

And where did I ever say Allaah sits? You are just hoisting up a strawman argument.



No its not the same, because we affirm that nothing is like Allaah, He has a Face, and nothing is like His Face, He has Two Hands, and nothing are like His two Hands, He ascended (not sit) over the throne in a manner befitting His Majesty.

Christians, however, believe as part of their creed that Jesus, a flesh and blood human being like you and me, is divine. Jesus's face is like any human face, his hands are like any human hands, his feet like any human feet, etc. Thus to say Jesus is god is anthropomorphism.

OT - and knowledge of what it means - could save you alot of heartache.
Jesus 'became' lower than angels...made Himself lower than angels...to become flesh. To live below Heaven on earth as man.

Jesus said to them when they questioned how He knew Abraham, He said 'Before Abraham, I AM' which means God.
He told them right to their faces He was God...He said 'I AM'...which is the name given to Moses when He asked God His name.

St John says the Word was with God, the Word is God and the Word became Flesh.

Just because Jesus came to be one of us so He could die for us TO OPEN THE GATES OF HEAVEN... doesn't mean He was not God.

Isaias said 'Born unto us a son and He shall be called God Almighty and the Father of the world to come...'
IE - God was going to be born unto us.

And i could go on and on and on with this. I could show you many verses of the OT and NT to show Jesus was the Messiah - Who is God.

Seeing and hearing are human qualities when they are in reference to human beings and human organs (such as ears and tongue). We Muslims do not say Allaah has ears or He has a tongue, but we affirm that He Hears and Sees everything, not the same way you or I hear and see. Thus there is a clear difference. However, your "god" (Jesus) had ears and a tongue and therefore heard and spoke the exact same way human beings do. Thus your concept of god is 100% anthropomorphic.

Don't put God in a box and do not assume to know Him if you ignore 4000 years of prophecy and a fulfilment of those 300 prophecies.

100% fulfilled by Christ - and Muhammad??

If you are going to insist on Muhammad - at least give us some proof that God was giving us a message of who he would be and what he would do.
Altho Muhammad severely contradicted Christ.

Hilarious. So you attempt to prepare the ground, set the trap and then I am going to jump into it in an honest way. That is great. Burning incense though was not a unique practice of the Jews who elevated the serpent into god status, Jews had been known to burn incense in the Temple.

The Christian priest places incense on the burning coals in the censer which the server swings to and fro.. . causing clouds of smoke to go heavenward. The ascending clouds of an incense in the Old Testament made up of fragrant gums and spices is an offering of earth’s treasures to their Creator, symbolizing prayer. “Let my prayer be counted as incense before thee, and the lifting up of my hands as an evening sacrifice. . . .“ (Psalm 141: 2) Accordingly, the people would pray before the Holy of Holies while the priest within was making the sacrifice. “And the whole multitude of people were praying outside at the hour of incense.” (Luke 1: l0) The prayers went up to heaven unto God as the smoke of the incense does leaving behind the sweetness of the odor of it all the sweetness of the Holy Spirit.
So, too, in the New Testament does it have a prayerful meaning as St. John the Divine Disciple beheld how in heaven “an angel came and stood at the altar, with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden Altar before the Throne of God; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the Saints from the hand of the angel before God.” (Revelations 8: 3-4), but it has a much deeper meaning; the transformed ideal. The burning coal is the burning ember. Christ, Who takes away the sins of the world as we behold in Isaiah at the calling of the prophet Isaiah, “then flew one of the Seraphim to me, having in his hand a burning coal which he had taken with tongs from the Altar. And he touched my mouth, and said: ‘Behold, this has touched your lips: your guilt is taken away, and your sin forgiven.’ “(Isaiah 6:6-7)


Incense used at the Divine Services represents:
a. Adoration or the worship paid to God alone, present in the Eucharist. The burning of the fragrant spices shows the unimportance of all creatures before their Creator.
b. Prayer, which rises to God like smoke.
c. Grace, which God pours into our souls as incense pours fragrance throughout the Church.
The Church incenses relics, ikons and Holy things:
a. To honor God who crowned the saints in heaven, who worked wonders through them here on earth, who sanctified and glorified their bodies.
b. To show respect and devotion to the special friends and servants of the Almighty.
The plan of salvation was in God's Mind and Heart from the very beginning, from all eternity and for all eternity. God sends the Archangel Gabriel to a Maiden. His salute is: "Hail Mary Full of Grace, The Lord is with you".
"Blessed are you among women" says Elizabeth as Mary greets her, "and Blessed is the fruit of your womb". Jesus is the fruit of God's love for us. He is God Incarnate.


Holy Mary, Mother of God. Pray for us to your Son Jesus, now in our needs, and also at the hour of our departure from earth into everlasting life.
Amen

OT tells us incense was required by God in the Temple.
And the Revelation tells us prayers are like incense - pleasing to God.

THIS pleases Him - so yea, we do it.

 

[Supreme]

LOL if you typed that sentence in microsoft word, a green line would appear under it informing you of a grammatical mistake (fragment consider revising). You can either change it to ARE Gods or IS God.

Indeed, it would be more fitting for the user to have posted 'God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit', but you can always tell how weak someone is in a debate when they degenerate the conversation into grammatical mistakes.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Islaam also teaches that Jesus the promised messiah &#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1607; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1604;&#1575;&#1605; will return to this world from the sky, and he will complete his original work as the messiah. The messiah was suppose to create a holy society in which the wolf, lion, and sheep all live together in peace and the laws of God are enforced. However, he could not accomplish this during his first advent because the Jews rejected him, so God took him away and he will come back again to establish a holy kingdom on Earth.

When He comes again - He will be fierce like a Lion and Judgement will be His job as Messiah.
He won't be coming to teach us, but to seperate those who were faithful to the deposit of faith and those who are left out because they followed false teachings or no teachings.

Altho He did say the days would be shorteneed when the trials on the earth would occur and even the elect [Bishops and so forth] would fall away due to great signs and wonders of false prophets - but because they leave the faith - His will come sooner than later.

And satan will knock out 2/3's of the stars out of the sky. IE - satan will wipe out 2/3's of the population with his wickedness...cunning and evil.

Now here is something to ponder... Christianity is about 1/3 of the world's religion...
2/3's are not.
That's some serious stuff right there.

 

[Yusha']

Incense used at the Divine Services represents:
a. Adoration or the worship paid to God alone, present in the Eucharist. The burning of the fragrant spices shows the unimportance of all creatures before their Creator.
b. Prayer, which rises to God like smoke.
c. Grace, which God pours into our souls as incense pours fragrance throughout the Church.
The Church incenses relics, ikons and Holy things:
a. To honor God who crowned the saints in heaven, who worked wonders through them here on earth, who sanctified and glorified their bodies.
b. To show respect and devotion to the special friends and servants of the Almighty.

So here you admit that the church teaches that you should incense relics and icons, supposedly to show respect and devotion to God's special friends (i.e. Virgin Mary and the saints).

Yet the God of the Old Testament (whom you are constantly trying to escape) has severely condemned incensing any image or icon. You said that the bronze serpent was originally an image or an icon, not an idol. But it became an idol and that why God ordered it to be destroyed.

However, you conveniently forgot to mention how it went from being a mere icon to a full-fledged idol....the israelites began to incense it (just like you incense "icons" of virgin mary).

So there's another example of how you worship virgin mary, not only do you bow to her image, make pilgrimages to shrines containing her image, pray to her image, but on top of all that you even incense her image!

Still want to deny you don't worship virgin Mary? Be my guest, you will have to answer to the One True God for that.

 

[Playfair]

Yusha', Jesus said that God is Spirit and they who worship must worship in Spirit and in truth.

What role does the Holy Spirit play is Islam?

What role does demons and Satan play in Islam?


If Allah and YWAH are the same God (as we discussed before), then why is there the division? It seems to me that when Abraham and Sarah had Ismaiel they did it without God, but when God performed a miracle for Sarah to have Isaac, then Isaac was God's choice. To me that is where the division takes place.

There can only be one God, so someone is off. I am a follower of Yeshua, and of His truth, and His whole Word - the Word of God - from Gen to Revelations speaks of Yeshua coming to be our propitiation.

 

[Yusha']

Ok.
Why do the Muslims view the Apostle Paul as a false Apostle?

The simple answer is because he preached that Jesus is God, as well as many other weird stuff (like there's nothing wrong with eating meat sacrificed to idols). We believe that if indeed he did have a vision on the road to damascus, it must have been a vision of the devil and not Jesus.

 

[Yusha']

The question I'm wondering about was my follow-up question to your answer in #225. Would Allah's granting of "bounty" include the granting of greater political power for his believers?

Islaam does not place such a great emphasis on political power as many people think. This is due to the influence of what is known as "Islamism" that is a modern idea and is really inspired by marxism and politics.

Real bounties of Allaah are not power or wealth, unless these things are used for good, just, and righteous purposes. Islaam in fact cautions strongly against worldliness and seeking power. The Prophet &#1589;&#1604;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1607; &#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1607; &#1608;&#1587;&#1604;&#1605; said that this world is a paradise for the unbelievers and a prison for the believers. If the believers start feeling that this world is a paradise for them, obviously something is very wrong. Muslims are not suppose to strive for this world and what it contains, Allaah may give some good things of this world as a blessing for our righteousness, but we are not to make them the purpose of our life. The purpose of our life is only to worship Allaah alone, and look forward to meeting Him in the Hereafter, which is the true abode of the believers.

Another hadeeth mentions that this world is not even worth the wing of a mosquito in the sight of Allaah. Reading the Quraan this point is emphasized again and again.

 

[Yusha']

True, but Judaism is not the subject at hand here.

Judaism has nothing to do with it, but the Torah does. Last time I checked, the Torah or Pentateuch forms the first five books of the Christian bible. Christians believe the laws of the torah have been abrogated or abolished through Jesus, I am not questioning that, I am merely questioning that since Christians have utmost faith and conviction in the God of the Old Testament, and since they believe that is the same God as Jesus, why they have the audacity to object to certain Islaamic practices when the God whom they believe in instituted precisely similar laws and rituals in the Torah? You can obviously say the laws of the Torah don't apply to you (they don't apply to me either), but to say the laws of the Torah were illogical or absurd, then you have a major problem, because the Writer of the those laws was God Himself.

Sorry, I must've misunderstood the Islamic defintion of 'Prophet'. Can anyone be acclaimed as a prophet so long as they have a beautiful character and are acknowledged for truthfulness and integrity by their enemies then lol?

Of course not, and that was never my point. My point is that if the Prophet Muhammad &#1589;&#1604;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1607; &#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1607; &#1608;&#1587;&#1604;&#1605; was a false prophet, that means he was a liar, and liars have a certain reputation. They don't live their whole lives telling the truth, and than suddenly make one huge lie. That's completely out of character. This is why when the Prophet &#1589;&#1604;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1607; &#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1607; &#1608;&#1587;&#1604;&#1605; first received revelation, he was soon thereafter commanded to gather his near tribesmen and family members on a mount and invite them to worship only One God. They came, and the first thing he asked them was, "If I told you there is a huge army behind this mount about to invade and attack, would you believe me?" All of them affirmed they would, because the Prophet &#1589;&#1604;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1607; &#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1607; &#1608;&#1587;&#1604;&#1605; had a reputation as the most truthful and sincere person among them. He was nicknamed Saadiq (truthful) and Ameen (sincere) even before he claimed to be a prophet.