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Ask me about Islaam

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HumbleSiPilot77

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Unclean is always in relation to humans. An animal such as a dog or a pig is unclean for people, they are not unclean in general.
Another spin. Not unclean in general, what is "in general" in relation to? What is God's creation in relation to?
What do you mean by "common" consumption? Are you implying certain animals could not be eaten at a communal meal but could be eaten individually?

Furthermore, why were certain animals declared unclean and others as clean. For example, why is swine unclean but lamb is clean? On what basis is such a distinction made? If you say there is no basis for such a distinction, than that is called a "taboo".
Leviticus chapter 11 lists the dietary restrictions God gave to the nation of Israel. The dietary laws included prohibitions against eating pork, shrimp, shellfish and many types of seafood, most insects, scavenger birds, and various other animals. The dietary rules were never intended to apply to anyone other than the Israelites. The purpose of the food laws was to make the Israelites distinct from all other nations. After this purpose had ended, Jesus declared all foods clean (Mark 7:19). God gave the apostle Peter a vision in which He declared that formerly unclean animals could be eaten: “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean” (Acts 10:15). When Jesus died on the cross, He fulfilled the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:24-26; Ephesians 2:15). This includes the laws regarding clean and unclean foods.

Romans 14:1-23 teaches us that not everyone is mature enough in the faith to accept the fact that all foods are clean. As a result, if we are with someone who would be offended by our eating “unclean” food, we should give up our right to do so as to not offend the other person. We have the right to eat whatever we want, but we do not have the right to offend other people, even if they are wrong. For the Christian in this age, though, we have freedom to eat whatever we wish as long as it does not cause someone else to stumble in his/her faith.
And one of those "evil activities" of the pagan civilizations was eating of pork. And the reason God didn't want the Israelites to eat that is because, like you said, He wanted them to be holy and separate from the pagan idol-worshippers.
In the New Covenant of grace, the Bible is far more concerned with how much we eat than what we eat. Physical appetites are an analogy of our ability to control ourselves. If we are unable to control our eating habits, we are probably also unable to control other habits such as those of the mind (lust, covetousness, unrighteous hatred/anger) and unable to keep our mouths from gossip or strife. We are not to let our appetites control us; rather, we are to control them (Deuteronomy 21:20; Proverbs 23:2; 2 Peter 1:5-7; 2 Timothy 3:1-9; 2 Corinthians 10:5).

I rarely see Muslims killing infidels, I mostly see it the other way around, i.e. infidels killing Muslims. But that's a political topic that I don't want to open here if you don't mind.
Oh please do, there is a politics and news forum. I'd be so glad to hear you referring to Taliban as infidel too.
Which Muslims hold "private sex parties". That's more of a Christian thing in case you didn't know.
How original... Please show me a Scripture instructed, donctrinally required, spiritually required, sacramental sex party, please.
Circumcision of both males and females is a good thing and nothing immoral about it.
A good thing whose view? For females it is genital mutilation and it is torture. It is against human rights. No wonder it happens in muslim states.
The civilized west, i.e. the united states has legally approved of over 40 million abortions (killing babies that haven't been born yet). How exactly is the west more civilized than Islamic civilization?
Because they know the difference of good and evil, moral and immoral. If some want to hurt themselves through such procedures, they have the choice and freedom to do so. It is between them and God if they believe and we can not force them nor judge them. Them standing up for their rights, and we stand for ours is "civilization", enforcing that women would not drive an automobile is not...
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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Defining monotheism to simply mean belief in One God is a very narrow and poor definition. snip Believing in only One God is nothing special, almost everyone believes that.
Yep so do Muslims.
And what if I told you that Hindus believe there are more than three million "aspects" to the One God. Hinduism is at least taking this idea to its logical conclusion, I mean why limit God's aspects to three, why not four, or five, or indeed three million? It makes no sense at all, its a very slippery slope.
Hinduism is not the subject here, nor it is directly related to Christian belief. Did Hindus have Christ teaching them these "aspects"? So to use your lacking reasoning, defining persons of the Trinity to simply mean "aspect" is a very narrow and poor definition. How much does "washing yourself seven times" make sense to you? You can apply the same logic to this matter.
I completely, but respectfully disagree with this observation. First of all, 9/11 had the exact opposite effect on many Muslims who are more inclined to assimilation with the west. Many people who were occassionally attending the mosque pre-9/11 now suddenly stop coming, mostly due to fear especially rumors that FBI is monitoring mosques.
Maybe because those mosques in the interests of the national security had to be investigated due to hate sermons? Terrorism recruiting grounds? They suddenly stop coming because they were somehow related and connected?
Secondly, wanting to prove Islam is peaceful would only apply to Muslims living in the west, but we can see a global resurgence of devotion in the Muslim masses, especially in places like central Asia, south Asia, southeast Asia, Africa, and also Bosnia, which traditionally was very secular and downplayed their Islamic identity. Now we see a global resurgence of Islam by the grace of Allah. On the other hand, if you look at statistics, you see Christianity holds very little influence in Europe. Even traditionally Catholic countries like Italy, Spain, Germany, church attendance is slowly decreasing. Look at attendance for Church of England in England itself you will be totally amazed. Western civilization is actually downplaying its Christian identity and slowly adapting a secular non-religious identity. This is due to simple fact that most people are spending their sunday mornings watching tv, or playing sports, rather than attending church.
Check this logic out. If people want to watch TV on sunday morning, whose fault is that? Should we become civilized like Saudis and establish religious police to drag them to Church?
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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The angels come to the person in the grave and ask him three questions i) who is your Lord ii) what is your religion? and iii) who is your prophet? The correct answers to all these questions are i) Allaah ii) Islaam iii) Muhammad.

I forgot to ask, were we supposed to learn the language of the angels to pass this test? If so what are their languages?
 
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Yusha'

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Ok, and where did this teaching come from?
Seems more modern than the Muhammad of 625 AD.

The teaching of the punishment of the grave is explained in detail by the ahadeeth. Punishment of the grave is one of the fundamental beliefs of Islam.

But Muhammad lived during the time of Nestorian heresy and he caravaned in their vicinity.
It is highly probable that everything he learned of Christianity stemmed from that sect.

Even if that's true, Nestorianism isn't all that different from mainstream Christianity except for one major difference, Nestorians have their own unique christological doctrine that Jesus is one person, but not a hypostatis of two natures (divine and human).
So to say Islam is influenced by nestorian heresy really doesn't make sense, since neither Islam accepts the nestorian christological creed, and there is nothing distinct in Islam which can be traced back to Nestorianism either.

Who were shunned by the Church on account of their false teachings.

And those "false teachings" was simply a slightly different christological belief, again having no relevance to Islam whatsoever.


Dead sea scrolls are evidence of the ancient world and that the Bible was NOT corrupted.

The Dead Sea Scrolls were written before the time of Jesus and therefore don't even include the New Testament. It's the New Testament that has indeed been corrupted. The Old Testament has only few variations between the Dead Sea Scrolls, the masoretic text, and the septuagint. The New Testament, however, has serious flaws, suggest you read Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman.

Muhammad, however; didnt take into account that God would preserve His word for the generation of our times to PROOVE nothing changed...and the Bible has maintained the truths.

So why didn't God preserve the New Testament, why are their literally thousands of variations between various manuscripts? Why are entire stories fabricated into the New Testament, having no evidence from earliest manuscripts, for example the story of the woman caught in adultery was a complete concoction. Why didn't God protect His word from this kind of blatant corruption?

Surely - if Muhammad was a prophet - he would have prophesied this event to let you all know that this would be uncovered - since it was his claim God gave him prophecies.
And if God gave him to know the Bible was corrupted...this would have been top of the list.

See above.

Prophets gave accounts to the Messiah [not self gain] - and the fulfilment of the Law.
Jesus said clearly - that others after Him would be false - and would show signs to fool even the elect.

If Muhammad was a true prophet - Jesus would have mentioned that.

Jesus didn't say all others after him would be false. In fact I would like to quote the Gospel of John which says:

"Now I am going to him who sent me, yet none of you asks me, 'Where are you going?' Because I have said these things, you are filled with grief. But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you. (John 16:5-15, NIV)

Here Jesus is clearly mentioning that after he goes away, someone will come who will guide to complete truth and reveal those things which Jesus himself wasn't able to reveal. As Muslims, we believe the words of Jesus has been fulfilled and the Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم who is the final guide for all humanity has indeed come.

Jesus said HE was the fulfilment of the Law.

Wrong. He said he has come to fulfill the law, not that he is the fulfilment of the law himself.
 
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Supreme

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Circumcision of both males and females is a good thing and nothing immoral about it.

No it isn't, female cirumcision is a disgusting, disgraceful act which is practised mainly so perverted sex-obssessed males can enjoy sex more. It is also immoral and against international law.

And what if I told you that Hindus believe there are more than three million "aspects" to the One God. Hinduism is at least taking this idea to its logical conclusion, I mean why limit God's aspects to three, why not four, or five, or indeed three million? It makes no sense at all, its a very slippery slope

Yes indeed, God is far more abundant to a mere three states: however, because these states are not mentioned in the Bible, it is not safe to worship anything but the Trinity. Moreover, the Trinity are the most obvious forms God takes for man. That's my personal belief, I'm not sure if other Christians would agree.
 
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Yusha'

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Mary is NOT part of the Trinity.
Nor do we worship her in any form.
She is venerated and honored as Jesus Himself honored His Mother according to the Ten Commandments of the Law.

I never said Mary is part of the trinity.

You claim Christians don't worship Mary, so what exactly are these people doing?

worshipping_mary200.jpg


83149874.jpg



So if those Catholics aren't worshipping Mary, I guess these Hindus aren't really worshipping their idols either.


How about the Lourdes Grotto? Or Fatima?
70,000 witnesses who saw and felt the sun drop to the earth within seconds it was back in place...
How about the rain that soaked them, and after this event everyone was dry?
How about 70,000 witnesses??

Have you heard about these events? I am curious.

Never heard of these events, maybe you can explain them to me.
 
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Wicked Willow

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No it isn't, female cirumcision is a disgusting, disgraceful act which is practised mainly so perverted sex-obssessed males can enjoy sex more. It is also immoral and against international law.
Indeed. In all fairness, we should also mention that it is NOT an islamic practice, but derives from primitive tribal customs. You won't find it mentioned in either the Qur'an nor the Hadiths.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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*snip*

.......Jesus didn't say all others after him would be false. In fact I would like to quote the Gospel of John which says:

"Now I am going to him who sent me, yet none of you asks me, 'Where are you going?' Because I have said these things, you are filled with grief. But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear...........

Here Jesus is clearly mentioning that after he goes away, someone will come who will guide to complete truth and reveal those things which Jesus himself wasn't able to reveal. As Muslims, we believe the words of Jesus has been fulfilled and the Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم who is the final guide for all humanity has indeed come.
.
There was a great discussion on that while back :wave:

http://www.christianforums.com/t6892735-9/
the cofmorter in the bible point to prophet not a ghost
 
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Yusha'

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This is absolutely a flawed logic which doesn't explain its reasoning. So "cats" have "hygienic" saliva? Even human being are known to have vast number of different bacteria in their saliva, they are "unhygienic"? It is also known that Muhammad had issues with dogs

What "issues" are you talking about, please explain yourself.

If pork meat is scientifically examined and evaluated to obtain nutritional data, the ingredients are already available by many other dairy and veggie products. Now of course logic comes back and bites this reasoning in its rear because those who consume the same ingredients are suggested to be prone to sexual immorality and obesity. On the other topic, pork had been forbidden to Jews due to sanitary reasons of the era and non-Jewish consumption of pork, by abstaining from pork Jews were distinguished by action compared to non-Jews.

Pork is known to be unhealthy, just go to your local doctor and ask him about it. It causes increase of cholesterol and many other health problems, especially related to the heart.

You mention Jews were forbidden pork due to sanitary reasons. Please explain a little what are these sanitary reasons that pork is forbidden, but lamb or goat meat isnt. Non-Jews ate pork, sure, but they also eat lamb and goat and beef, why weren't Jews forbidden these as well so that they "were distinguished by action compared to non-Jews". Your reasoning makes no sense at all.
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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The teaching of the punishment of the grave is explained in detail by the ahadeeth. Punishment of the grave is one of the fundamental beliefs of Islam.
Really? Since when hadith is admitted as DIVINE REVELATION? Which one is divine, Quran, or Muhammad's hadith? Not to mention there are islamic sects that completely refuse the hadith... so much for its credibility...
Even if that's true, Nestorianism isn't all that different from mainstream Christianity except for one major difference, Nestorians have their own unique christological doctrine that Jesus is one person, but not a hypostatis of two natures (divine and human).
So to say Islam is influenced by nestorian heresy really doesn't make sense, since neither Islam accepts the nestorian christological creed, and there is nothing distinct in Islam which can be traced back to Nestorianism either.
So it is that easy, by superficial definition we can tell and distinguish the root causes. It is risky to affirm categorically that "Islam" underwent the influence of this or that sect, however the Quran denied the divinity of Christ due to Ebionite and Arian influence, the Quran confused between divinity and humanity of Christ due to the Nestorian influence, the Quran denied the Crucifixion of Christ due to the Gnostic Docetes who claimed that Jesus had only the appearance of a body, cf. the apocryphal (or pseudepigraphic) Gospel of Peter. The Quran also criticized and suggested "Christians" for believing in three gods: Allah, Isa and Mary - perhaps due to the existence of a "Marianistic" heresy. Dig 'em they were all in Arabia. Basic references about the various sects and heresies in the early Church : St. Iraeneus : "Adversus Haereses" St. Epiphanus, Bishop of Salamina (Cyprus): "The Panarion" (All the schisms).
And those "false teachings" was simply a slightly different christological belief, again having no relevance to Islam whatsoever.
It had full relevance in what first muslims thought what a Christian was. Can you not make the connection yet?
The Dead Sea Scrolls were written before the time of Jesus and therefore don't even include the New Testament.
Debatable. There are arguments that certain manuscripts of Mark had been found, inconclusive. Although that doesn't mean it is not.

It's the New Testament that has indeed been corrupted.
Such a bold claim, prove where, when, how, by whom, for how long...
The New Testament, however, has serious flaws, suggest you read Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman.
Why are you so infatuated with an agnostic who is proven to entertain his own bias in his works? Just because he makes your point for you?
So why didn't God preserve the New Testament, why are their literally thousands of variations between various manuscripts?
What mss has variations, bring him here we will discuss.
Why are entire stories fabricated into the New Testament, having no evidence from earliest manuscripts, for example the story of the woman caught in adultery was a complete concoction. Why didn't God protect His word from this kind of blatant corruption?
Pericope Adulterae was an authentic passage. The internal evidence for the verses is compelling. Looking back at John 7:37-52, we note that two hostile parties crowded the Temple courts (vv.40-42). Some were for laying violent hands upon Jesus (vs.44). At the same time, the Sanhedrin disputed among themselves privately in closed chambers. Some were reproaching their servants for not having taken Jesus prisoner (vv.45-52). How then could John have proceeded "Again therefore Jesus spake unto them, saying, I am the light of the world"? What are we supposed to imagine that John meant if he had penned such words immediately following the angry council scene? Hills rightly observes that the rejection of the pericope leaves a strange connection between the seventh and eighth chapters: "the reader is snatched from the midst of a dispute in the council chamber of the Sanhedrin back to Jesus in the Temple without a single word of explanation." If the pericope is left between these two events, it accounts for the rage of the leaders having been temporarily diffused through the encounter over the woman such that the narrative beginning at 8:12 could transpire without being so out of place. Though their hatred for Jesus remained, the pericope incident brought its intensity down until the following confrontation. To this we add Jerome's testimony (c.415) "in the Gospel according to John in many manuscripts, both Greek and Latin, is found the story of the adulterous woman who was accused before the Lord."

Jesus didn't say all others after him would be false. In fact I would like to quote the Gospel of John which says:

"Now I am going to him who sent me, yet none of you asks me, 'Where are you going?' Because I have said these things, you are filled with grief. But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you. (John 16:5-15, NIV)

Here Jesus is clearly mentioning that after he goes away, someone will come who will guide to complete truth and reveal those things which Jesus himself wasn't able to reveal. As Muslims, we believe the words of Jesus has been fulfilled and the Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم who is the final guide for all humanity has indeed come.
Muhammad is not the Spirit of Truth per the Gospel account. PARAKLHTOS does not mean "praised one". I defy you to provide any academic reference indicating that it does. The etymology isn't even close. The prefix PARA is prepositional and means near, beside, by, at. The root KLHTOS means "called". According to the LSJ, PARAKLHTOS roughly means "called to one's aid". Secondly, all this apologetic tap-dancing totally ignores the usage in GJn 14:26. Your argument, I think, is that this a corruption of the text intended to obscure the true meaning as a prefiguration of Muhammad. We have MSS that date well before the birth of Muhammad that contain this verse and this word usage. So we are expected to believe that 14:16 prefigures a prophet who would arrive some 3 centuries later and then a century before this prophet's arrival another individual who would also have to be prophetic realizes that this is a prophecy of someone not yet born and then corrupts the text to hide the prophetic meaning. Or we can take the text a face value and accept that the author is talking about the Holy Spirit. Talk about running afoul of Occam's Razor.

A little reflection suggests to me that you are intending to replace PARAKLHTOS with PERIKLYTOS. I noticed this on a couple Muslim apologetic sites. This too is ridiculous. PERIKLYTOS means "famous" or "renowned". The problem though is that its usage is limited to the Homeric literature and period centuries before the emergence of Koine and the NT. PERIKLYTOS is not used anywhere in any Koine text including all known extra-biblical sources. It is never used in the NT because the word was essentially unknown in the period in question. It would be roughly equivalent to finding an obscure word in Beowulf used in a 21st century English text. This is nothing more than a cheap, rhetorical bait and switch. The word in ALL extant MSS including those from the earliest period from which we have MSS evidence use the word PARAKLHTOS.

Wrong. He said he has come to fulfill the law, not that he is the fulfilment of the law himself.
And that He did, no one else. Therefore He is the fulfillment of the Law.
 
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Yusha'

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Incredibly, he insists that "Jesus was an orthodox Jew" (p 95). Has he never read the New Testament? Why does he think all those Pharisees called him a blasphemer? Jesus touched lepers, ate without washing his hands, forgave sins, threw moneychangers out of the temple, made Pharisees furious with his nonorthodox statements, including claiming to be God Himself, and, as a result, many demanded his death.

Obviously Wilson meant that Jesus considered himself to be an orthodox Jew, and the pharisees were in fact the heretics. Jesus preached strict following of the Law of God, unlike Paul, who wrongly claimed Jesus had come to abolish the law with its rules and regulations. (Ephesians 2:15)

Also, Jesus wasn't accused of claiming to be God Himself. The reason the Jews, particularly the Sanhedrin and the Sadducees, wanted him dead was because he claimed to be the messiah. This is evident in his trial before the sanhedrin, where the high priest asks him whether he is the messiah, the son of the living God. (For the Jews, the term son of God does not correlate to the Christian concept of God the son). when Jesus affirmed that he is the promised messiah, the high priest declared it to be blasphemy. Therefore, the reason the Jews wanted to kill Jesus عليه السلام was because he claimed to be the Messiah, not God. And the reason such a claim was so feared by the Jews, particularly the elitist sadducees who controlled the sanhedrin council, was because these Jews feared Roman reprisal against the entire Jewish community. They also feared that a Messiah would become popular, challenge their authority (as he had already done) and therefore destroy their influence and whatever prestige they had. the bottom line is, they weren't about to let some Galilean country preacher destroy everything they had.

Wilson thinks the Ebionites were the inheritors of the James/Jesus group. He forgets to mention to Ebionites were Gnostic heretics with a great many odd beliefs, most of which appear to have nothing to do with Judaism.

I agree, the Ebionite rejection of the virgin birth would definitely fall into this category.

"Paul was a Hellenized Jew" (p 109) he argues, who was familiar with the "beliefs and practices of the mystery religions" (p 110). This is an old argument. Many scholars believed it...around 1900 AD. When it became known as the 'History of Religions' theory in biblical scholarship. It is now utterly refuted. Two modern books that cover this theory and why it was discarded are "The Gospel and the Greeks" by Nash and "The Jesus Legend" by Eddy and Boyd. Among the many reasons this theory was discarded was that the mystery religions only arrived after the 1st century, the only exception being the Orphics. At any rate, this theory is now considered so dead and gone that I find it utterly amazing that he could make this claim with a straight face.

The Mithraic mystery cult may have gained popularity later on, but it was still in existence before Christianity. Likewise the cult of Isis, and the cult of dionysus. In any case, the people to whom Paul preached to, mostly the inhabitants of Asia Minor, were indeed practicing these kinds of mystery cults.

And if Paul simply invented a new mystery religion, why did he call pagan gods 'demons'? It's not as if mystery religions were exclusive; you could belong to 20 at one time if you liked. Why did he forbid Christians to eat the meat that came from animals sacrificed to pagan gods?

This objection makes no sense whatsoever. Paul was preaching a new mystery cult, that doesn't preclude him from writing harsh words about other mystery cults which are in fact his competition. Similarly why Paul wrote virulently against Judaism and Judaic practices, he wanted to take Christianity in totally new direction. Also the part of your text which I bolded is a complete lie on your part. Either you are ignorant or just plain lying. I find it hard to believe you would be ignorant of what Paul actually taught regarding eating meat sacrificed to pagan idols:

"But not everyone knows this. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat such food they think of it as having been sacrificed to an idol, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do" (1 Corinthians 8:7-8, NIV)

Paul's argument that there is nothing wrong with eating meat sacrificed to idols, since those idols don't really exist, and only people whose "conscience is weak" will think such meat is defiled. So I guess that means Paul would have no problem with you prostrating or kneeling before an idol, since that idol doesn't really exist, there's no problem in doing such a thing! Interesting, Paul says those who are "weak in conscience" consider meat offered to idols to be defiled. He completely fails to mention that the Torah, which Christians consider to be the Word of God, has strictly forbidden meat offered to idols.

Besides, scholars have shown through textual evidence that, among other places, 1 Cor 15:3f is proof of an early creed. This creed was created probably a decade or more earlier than any of Paul's epistles. The creed proclaims Jesus God and Messiah. Where the heck did that come from if Paul created Christianity? Where did the 'traditions' Paul keeps talking about come from?

And of course, 1 Corinthians is itself a letter attributed to Paul, claiming it contains an early creed accepted by all followers of Jesus is nothing but absurd.

Wilson claims Paul's "was a Hellenistic religion with very little--if any--Jewish content" ( 125). Talk about false! Paul's epistles are drenched, soaked in Jewish culture and, even more, in Jewish scripture. Practically every other sentence refers to a Jewish concept or is a quotation from the Old Testament. I cannot imagine how Wilson could read the epistles and claim there is "no Jewish content". This has got to be the single most ignorant and telling statement Wilson makes, and perhaps the most easily refutable statement I have ever read.

Obviously you think the deceptive use of Jewish terminology constitutes Jewish content. Paul was very clever in being able to mask his hellenistic/pagan ideas in Jewish terms, no doubt about that. Ideas like God incarnating himself in a man, dying for the sins of mankind, etc., these ideas have nothing to do with Judaism, or more importantly the Hebrew scriptures, and everything to do with paganism.

Wilson says Jesus was just an orthodox Jew who wanted to overthrow the Romans. Funny how every single statement in the New Testament argues against this. The resurrection! The miracles! Blessed are the peacemakers! And let's not forget forgive your enemy seventy times seven! Because forgiving your enemy forever would have been of no help in overthrowing the Romans.

I wouldn't go as far as Wilson in claiming Jesus was basically a zealot who wanted to form an army and overthrow the Romans and become a messiah the way in which bar kochba attempted. However, I think its quite clear from Jesus' words that he expected the kingdom of God to come very soon and was expecting the Jews to accept him as their messiah. He felt that he wouldn't need to force the Romans out, but rather God would supernaturally intervene somehow in this affair. This is all evident from Jesus prophecies that the kingdom of God is about to come very soon, so soon in fact that some of his disciples will still be alive when it comes.

If Wilson were correct and Christianity was yet another Hellenistic mystery religion, why were Jews persecuting them?

Why were Jews persecuting the followers of Paul? I think it's pretty obvious, Paul was spreading heretical pagan ideas in the name of Jesus to the Jews. I think they would definitely see such kind of evangelism as a threat to themselves.

Then there's the fact that Wilson keeps insisting that James was just an orthodox Jew. Oh for pity's sake. Then why did the Jewish authorities stone him to death? So clearly, he wasn't just an orthodox Jew.

Internal Jewish strife. The Sadducees and priests especially feared a movement that is claiming the messiah has come. I explained already this was their motivation for wanting Jesus dead in the first place.
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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I never said Mary is part of the trinity.

You claim Christians don't worship Mary, so what exactly are these people doing?
Back to the Kabaa argument again. These people are praying, they are praying to God in the presence of something they consider Holy. Do muslims worship Kabaa, or the black stone in it when they prostrate to it?
So if those Catholics aren't worshipping Mary, I guess these Hindus aren't really worshipping their idols either.
What kind of logic is this? Hindus are saying that those representations are of their gods. Catholics are not worshiping Mary just because you see a picture and it doesn't conform to your definition of worship.
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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What "issues" are you talking about, please explain yourself.
Have you not learned in Pakistan that Muhammad was afraid of dogs since childhood?
Pork is known to be unhealthy, just go to your local doctor and ask him about it. It causes increase of cholesterol and many other health problems, especially related to the heart.
Illogical, so does french fries. What does that have anything to do with price of rice in China? I have been consuming pork products for more than 8 years now. It is leaner than most beef products, and richer in protein. It plays a great role in health nutrition for people, especially kids. That is why Europeans almost dwarf the pathetic middle-easterners and plus they excel in almost every athletic activity.

You mention Jews were forbidden pork due to sanitary reasons. Please explain a little what are these sanitary reasons that pork is forbidden, but lamb or goat meat isnt. Non-Jews ate pork, sure, but they also eat lamb and goat and beef, why weren't Jews forbidden these as well so that they "were distinguished by action compared to non-Jews". Your reasoning makes no sense at all.
Peaceful soul explained it. It was not only about consumption but also in the matters of sacrifice to God. I already said that the dietary rules were never intended to apply to anyone other than the Israelites. The purpose of the food laws was to make the Israelites distinct from all other nations. After this purpose had ended, Jesus declared all foods clean.
 
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Obviously Wilson meant that Jesus considered himself to be an orthodox Jew,....
Have you even read that book? There is nothing of substance but irrelevant ramblings in this post. I am not interested in your commentary in the light of what you know about St. Paul is utmost falsehood. But you have to do that because otherwise you can't attack Christian faith on safe ground.
 
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Yusha'

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Allah already has guided Christians; according to the Quran, we are the coveted 'People of the Book', and rightly recognized as monotheists- therefore, there is little point in converting, seeing as Allah will send the good Christians to heaven anyway.

Obviously you have never read the Quraan or you are intentionally misrepresenting what it says. The Quraan is clear that those people who say the Messiah is Allaah have gone astray and have disbelieved.

Surely, they have disbelieved who say: "Allâh is the Messiah son of Maryam." But the Messiah said: "O Children of Israel! Worship Allâh, my Lord and your Lord." Verily, whosoever sets up partners in worship with Allâh, then Allâh has forbidden Paradise for him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong­doers) there are no helpers. (Al-Ma'idah 5:72)


Mosques are filled because many Muslim countries punish their civilians (that's right, you can actually face punishment) if they don't turn up. Islam may be a 'living religion', but is more a living religion of fear than love, which is the opposite of Christianity.

This is nothing but a lie. No Muslim country forces their civilians to attend the mosque. I challenge you give me the name of one Muslim country that does that. Saudi Arabia has a law that you have to close your business down during the time of prayers, but it has no law that you have to attend the mosque. All other Muslim countries simply don't care if you go to the mosque or not, in fact in many Middle Eastern countries (especially Egypt, Algeria, and Morocco), people who go to the mosque are investigated by secret police, routinely tortured, yet despite this state persecution, mosques are filled to the brim by devout Muslim worshippers.
 
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Yusha'

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Similar to Sunnis, Shiites, Ahmadis, Alawis, Submitters, Zaidis, and on and on... See the hypocrisy of this argument is that it doesn't consider the reasons for the existence of these heretical groups in the history of early Christianity, and how they are distinguished from Orthodox Christianity.

You claimed that historically there was only one version of Christianity, and I promptly refuted you on this. I see no evidence of hypocrisy.

Thus in Psalms 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do HIS WILL!" (Ps. 103:20-21). And in Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" (Ps. 148:1-2).
Are Angels living or dead? the psalm is merely exhorting everyone, angels including, to praise God alone (not to say "Hail Mary").

Christian veneration of icons are not any different.

Christian "veneration" of icons is identical to pagan, Hindu, Buddhist, Zoroastrian "veneration" of their icons as well. I hope you would agree that Hinduism, buddhism, zoroastrianism, sikhism, etc., all of these are pagan religions. What you need to explain is how is your "veneration" of Virgin Mary any different from a Hindu "veneration" of Saraswati or an ancient Greek's "veneration" of Aphrodite?

But interestingly, if kissing something or someone doesn't mean you are worshiping it, then Christian veneration of icons and etc is already proven.False.

You have yet to explain how exactly you "venerate" your icons and how it cannot be considered as worship, and more importantly, how your "veneration" of these icons is unlike the pagan "veneration" of their idols.

Such self-concocted interpretation disregards simple examples like Moses erecting the bronze snake in the Desert

Is the bronze snake an icon, was it ever venerated? Did people bow down or prostrate before it like how eastern orthodox and roman catholics do to their icons?

It was a necessary accessory and a sacred object...

By accessory I take it again you mean an "accessory for worship", whereas the bronze snake had nothing to do with worship. The reason it was a figure of a snake was because the people of Moses were being bitten by poisonous snakes. To conclude from this that the people of Moses venerated snakes is completely absurd to say the least.

It is ridiculous to even suggest that a Christian who uses icons in his worship and remembrance of God is considering the icons as other gods. The commandment here prohibits every species of mental idolatry, and all inordinate attachment to earthly and sensible things. As God is the fountain of happiness, and no intelligent creature can be happy but through him, whoever seeks happiness in the creature is necessarily an idolater;

What a narrow definition of worship.

No Christian worships an image. Christians worship God. We do not worship Icons, but we do venerate them. That means we show special respect for the Icons. We do this because the Icons are a way of joining us to the goodness and holiness of God and His Saints.

This is nothing new. You really need to study other religions as well. They are all claiming the same thing. We are not worshipping the image of Ram, we are venerating it so we can get closer to Brahman (The Absolute Reality) through it. In essence, the image of Ram or Krishna is just "an accessory of worship" for the Hindus.

Interestingly, in the episode of the golden calf, it is said that after Aaron had fashioned the golden calf, he announced in front of its altar that tomorrow there is going to be a festival to the LORD. (Exodus 32:5) By LORD he is referring to the tetragrammaton, which means he is talking about the One God. So it becomes apparent that even the devious Israelites who worshipped the golden calf didn't abandon the One True God, rather, they made an icon which is an "accessory" to the One True God.

Bottom line: idolatry is idolatry...there's no way to justify it. God is Almighty, He needs no "accessories" in worship.
 
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Yusha'

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Does Allah want His believers to kill unbelievers?

No.

Does Allah want His believers to strive for a world-wide caliphate?

No, Allaah wants His believers to strive to worship Him alone and purify themselves (read At-Tasfiyah wa't Tarbiyah by Shaykh Naasirudeen Al-Albanee رحمة الله عليه for more clarification on this subject)

Islaam says that when the believers return to worshipping Allaah and obeying His commands and purify themselves, than Allaah will grant the believers all kind of bounties.
 
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Yusha'

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The thing is there are thousands of logical reasons why the young man didn't refer to Him as "good teacher" the second time.

I see, and you are simply going to go with one of those thousands of logical reasons which doesn't shatter your preconceived ideas. Thus you are interpreting the words of your messiah you claim to follow based on your desires and not based on a sincere motivation to follow him no matter what.

One simple explanation is that he might have considered Christ's response as a rebuke.

Obviously.


For the distraught state of the youth, then Christ is shown as "loving" Him. The fact of the matter is, you have no credibility to assert your understanding is better than anyone elses, because it is apparent that you approach the matter with utmost prejudice. You don't seem to answer the logical outcome.

The irony is you claim to have a better understanding of what Jesus actually meant than this fellow who was actually there in his presence. You claim he misunderstood the words of Jesus to be a rebuke. If Jesus really was God I doubt he would want to confuse people with his words, isn't it true God is not the author of confusion.

1: Jesus claims only God is good.
2: Jesus claims to be good.
3: Therefore, Jesus claims to be God.

Where does Jesus claim to be "good"?

But Allah has a throne right?

Every king has a throne, and Allaah is Maalik ul Amlak (King of Kings) and His Throne extends above the heavens and the earth, and Allaah ascended over His throne in a manner that befits His Majesty.
 
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Yusha'

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Below are some brief questions and thoughts on Muhammad’s statements.
1) Prayer is annulled by a dog.
Why should a dog nullify prayer? What difference does it make if the dog is in front of you, or behind you? Jesus taught that God judges the heart, and the outward performance is irrelevant.

Why do you have to take communion (bread and wine) to experience God? Why does the outward intake of these food have any relevance, since according to you God judges the heart. Of course He judges the heart, does that mean if I eat rice instead of bread and drink Coca-cola instead of wine I can still experience God in the communion, because God knows whats in my heart?


2) Angels do not enter a house wherein there is a dog.
Why would an angel be stopped by a puppy if he were on a mission from God? What power does this "unclean" characteristic possess to stop an angel?

Angels are holy beings, they do not desire to be in places of uncleanliness.

3) Whoever keeps a dog, one Qirat of the reward of his good deeds is deducted daily,
Why would Allah double the punishment of dog ownership? And, how much exactly is 1 qirat in heavenly currency and what is it needed for? Is it a huge mountain of gold, silver, or diamonds?

LOL, qirat is not a physical currency, the hadith itself says "qiraat of reward" its a measurement of reward (known as ajr). If you were really a Muslim previously you would definitely know these things.

After all, if Allah is penalizing you for something, the thing he is taking away must have value to the owner.Man's filth can never be washed in the eyes of God. The actual filth comes from the heart not the rear end.

Sure, but does that mean you should not wash and make sure your body is clean? You think God likes it if someone does not clean himself, comes to a place of worship without washing himself and making sure he is clean, smells good, etc? What effect you think this person will have on others who are engaged in worshipping God.

The difference between Islaam and Christianity is that Islaam is not just a religion, its a way of life, like Jesus said in the gospel of John, the spirit of truth will give total guidance, he won't just be teaching rosy parables. Jesus emphasized on rosy parables, because his audience was already following the outer laws strictly, but their problem was they knew nothing about purification of the heart and intentions. Islaam came through Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم whose audience not only lacked spiritual purity within, but also outward righteousness.

That is the way we are created. Religious sanitary rituals doesn't clean the heart and the spirit.

So again, what is the purpose of such laws being found in the Torah? Is the Torah not a book of spirituality?

Many traditions note that he had a rather "unpleasant" encounter with a dog when he was young. He appears full of hatred and rage against dogs because he simply feared them.

Please clarify what tradition or traditions you are referring to.
 
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