• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Ask me about Islaam

Status
Not open for further replies.
Y

Yusha'

Guest
From what I've heard so far of Islam, it seems to have an infinite amount of silly rules. You CAN'T eat pork. You CAN'T keep dogs. You HAVE to dress like this. You HAVE to pray five times a day. One thing I certainly think Christianity is further ahead in Islam is that all the silly regulations were dimissed by Jesus. He narrowed everything down to two rules: Worship and love God alone and love your neighbour. No food makes you 'unpure', no animal is 'evil' (why would God create evil animals anyway?), there's no specific clothes, and you can pray whenever you want, preferably when you're on your own and therefore cannot boast. What I can't understand is why Islam, a religion that is 1400 years old, borrows from the rules of pagan cultures thousands of years before Muhammeds birth, and why such silly quirks are a necessary part of your religion?

These rules of Islaam are not from pagan cultures, rather, you will find that these kinds of rules were taught by the prophets of Israel, who by the way came way before Jesus.

Read the Torah, therein are 613 mitzvot, religious laws dealing with dress, diet, prayer regulations, purity, festivals, etc. And in case you didn't know, Jesus was a religiously observant follower of the Torah, he was circumcised like all Muslim males must be, he didn't eat pork, he kept a beard, he covered his head, he didn't go around wearing un-modest clothes like shorts or jeans. If Jesus would come today, you would think he is a Muslim, from his appearance alone. And from his teachings he emphasized all the laws of God, even to the extent he told his followers to obey all the commands of the Pharisees (Matthew 23:1-2)

Regarding prayer, there are two kinds of prayer in Islaam: salaat which is the ritual worship that must be done 5 times at particular times of the day. The other type of prayer is Du'a, which we do in our heart supplicating to Allaah, and this type of prayer can be done whenever you feel like, and there are certain prayers which we offer at certain times of the day (i.e. when waking up, putting on clothes, going to the washroom, coming out of the washroom, brushing our teeth, before eating, after eating, before drinking water, drinking milk, after drinking, leaving the home, mounting a vehicle, going on a journey, before entering the mosque, after leaving the mosque, the list goes on and on). So the observant Muslim who follows the sunnah is constantly praying, so much so that it seems every second word on his tongue is Allaah. and this is the beauty of Islaam and why millions of christians are converting to Islaam, because it is a religion which truly makes you a worshipper and a righteous person. No other religion has this unique quality.
 
Upvote 0

Supreme

British
Jul 30, 2009
11,891
490
London
✟30,185.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
These rules of Islaam are not from pagan cultures, rather, you will find that these kinds of rules were taught by the prophets of Israel, who by the way came way before Jesus.

Are not keeping dogs, dressing modestly and praying 5 times a day mentioned, at any stage, in the Torah?

Read the Torah, therein are 613 mitzvot, religious laws dealing with dress, diet, prayer regulations, purity, festivals, etc. And in case you didn't know, Jesus was a religiously observant follower of the Torah, he was circumcised like all Muslim males must be, he didn't eat pork, he kept a beard, he covered his head, he didn't go around wearing un-modest clothes like shorts or jeans. If Jesus would come today, you would think he is a Muslim, from his appearance alone. And from his teachings he emphasized all the laws of God, even to the extent he told his followers to obey all the commands of the Pharisees (Matthew 23:1-2)

Actually, seeing as Jesus went to a synangogue, celebrated Passover and studied the Torah, I'd think he was Jewish, not Muslim. But nice try.

Regarding prayer, there are two kinds of prayer in Islaam: salaat which is the ritual worship that must be done 5 times at particular times of the day. The other type of prayer is Du'a, which we do in our heart supplicating to Allaah, and this type of prayer can be done whenever you feel like, and there are certain prayers which we offer at certain times of the day (i.e. when waking up, putting on clothes, going to the washroom, coming out of the washroom, brushing our teeth, before eating, after eating, before drinking water, drinking milk, after drinking, leaving the home, mounting a vehicle, going on a journey, before entering the mosque, after leaving the mosque, the list goes on and on). So the observant Muslim who follows the sunnah is constantly praying, so much so that it seems every second word on his tongue is Allaah. and this is the beauty of Islaam and why millions of christians are converting to Islaam, because it is a religion which truly makes you a worshipper and a righteous person. No other religion has this unique quality.

It all seems so physically demanding. Most, heck, all Christians I know have, y'know, a life. Obviously Christianity is a big part of their life, but Jesus doesn't expect us all to be like Him... we can't all be perfect. Certainly, Islam is unique in the restrictions that come with it.

Indeed, Islaam has come to take people out of the darkness of trinity and guide them to the light of Tawheed

700 years too late, when Christianity was the dominant religion of the Western World and had millions, and now billions, of adherents. This Allah isn't very punctual, you'd think he'd try and dispell the trinity as soon as it was formulated, not let millions of people be 'decieved' by it and then send someone 700 years later and try and put them in the 'light' (that's so ironically a Christian thing to say, it isn't worth mentioning.)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Y

Yusha'

Guest
What do Muslims believe happens to a person immediately after death?

After a person dies and is buried, he enters the grave, and the life of the grave, which is a sort of middle place between this life and the afterlife, known as the Barzakh (which means partition). This is basically the life of the grave. The angels come to the person in the grave and ask him three questions i) who is your Lord ii) what is your religion? and iii) who is your prophet? The correct answers to all these questions are i) Allaah ii) Islaam iii) Muhammad.

Whatever is in a person's heart will manifest itself in his answer (so there's no way of cheating in this test)

The grave will be like a taste of what is to come. For the believer it will become like a garden, a taste of paradise, illuminated and comfortable. For the unbeliever and sinful people, it will be a place of punishment, the grave will squeeze them tightly, they will see frightening serpents and other horrors.

Than, on the day of resurrected, all human beings will be resurrected. They will be judged by Allaah and taken to either Heaven or Hell.
 
Upvote 0
Y

Yusha'

Guest
Are not keeping dogs, dressing modestly and praying 5 times a day mentioned, at any stage, in the Torah?

Dressing modestly certainly is, as are 613 other laws, the foremost of which is "thou shalt have no other God before Me". The very first law which christianity breaks with its trinity.

Actually, seeing as Jesus went to a synangogue, celebrated Passover and studied the Torah, I'd think he was Jewish, not Muslim. But nice try.

Jesus observed the Torah, which is just as "rigourous" as the Islaamic laws, if not even more. So the point I am making is why you object to Islaam based on its rigourous laws, when according to you the Torah is also the word of God?

It all seems so physically demanding. Most, heck, all Christians I know have, y'know, a life. Obviously Christianity is a big part of their life, but Jesus doesn't expect us all to be like Him... we can't all be perfect. Certainly, Islam is unique in the restrictions that come with it.

The Torah is also quite "physically demanding", yet you believe it is the Word of God, and the lifestyle which Jesus himself followed.



700 years too late, when Christianity was the dominant religion of the Western World and had millions, and now billions, of adherents. This Allah isn't very punctual, you'd think he'd try and dispell the trinity as soon as it was formulated, not let millions of people be 'decieved' by it and then send someone 700 years later and try and put them in the 'light' (that's so ironically a Christian thing to say, it isn't worth mentioning.)

Numbers don't matter. Billions or maybe trillions of people have gone astray. Some prophets had absolutely no followers. Look how God dealt with the people of Noah, he drowned them all, and saved only Noah and a handful of his followers. Numbers have absolutely nothing to do with it. Christianity is the largest religion sure, but guidance has come through the Quraan and Sunnah, and Allaah will guide the sincere people to Islaam. A true believer is like a diamond among the rocks.

Also, notice how you mention Christianity dominates the world, whereas Jesus preached to be separate and isolated from this world, but instead to look forward to the coming kingdom of heaven. The bible says satan is the prince of this world. Many christians I know are converting to Islaam because they see that the most worldly and rich people happen to be the christians, whereas Jesus condemned being rich and worldliness. They see Islaam as a simple faith that preaches to live a righteous life, worship only One God, and never give precedence to worldly affairs over faith. Islaam in other words is a living religion, while christianity is spiritually dead. Your churches are empty and your casinos and bars are full, whereas are mosques are filled beyond capacity, not once a week, but on daily basis five times a day. All of this is visual testimony to those who can see the truth.
 
Upvote 0

Nooj

Senior Veteran
Jan 9, 2005
3,229
156
Sydney
✟26,715.00
Faith
Other Religion
Politics
AU-Greens
In Islaam, all graves must be level to the ground, cannot be decorated, plastered over, placing lamps or candles in them, prostrating in them, praying in their direction, all of these things constitute shirk and are hated by Allaah.
What do Salafi Muslims think about the tomb of Muhammad then?
 
Upvote 0

Wicked Willow

Well-Known Member
May 2, 2005
2,715
312
✟4,434.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Married
Our Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم did not have a personal dislike for dogs, except for one type of dog which is black and has a white spot on its head, because this is a demon-possessed dog that is a devil and this type of dog was exterminated from Arabia.
You know, during the Middle Ages, people in Europe started to kill black cats, fearing them as demonic entities or shape-changed witches. This felinocide was so thorough that to this day, you'll be hard-pressed to find a cat that's completely black.
The difference being that even our most pious Christians acknowledge this historical occurrence as a drastic and sad example of superstition, whereas *you* really seem to believe that black dogs are devils.
I don't know if I should laugh or cry, actually. Those poor dogs!

The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم even told his companions the parable of a prostitute woman who ran back and forth from a well to feed a dog that was dying of thirst. Even though this woman was a prostitute, Allaah forgave all her sins for this act of kindness to a dog.
Well, it's a nice parable, sort of - but of course, its effectiveness is based on the fact that dogs were thought of as "unclean" animals not worthy of pity or attention. In a society that valued dogs more, taking pity on a poor mutt wouldn't be such an extraordinary occurrence. I've saved my share of dogs already, for example, and with me not selling my body, I guess that'd make me a saint in a muslim society.
 
Upvote 0

peaceful soul

Senior Veteran
Sep 4, 2003
5,986
184
✟7,592.00
Faith
Non-Denom
originally posted by Yusha

Dogs are unclean animals, even scientifically its proven their saliva is very unhygenic. This is why its not allowed to keep them except for guarding livestock or for hunting or these kinds of legitimate reasons. Keeping them as "pets" is definitely something sinful in Islaam.
Since God made all of the animals, how can you call them unclean in the sense that something is wrong with them? Can you answer that one in a logical fashion?

The OT defines unclean animals not by such standards. Unclean just meant that the animals were not to be used in worship and for common consumption. It had little or nothing to do with what you think unclean means. There is no such thing as the eating of animals as being taboo. It is just misguided people like Mohammad who would think of such.

I am aware that in some countries, dog meat is a delicacy, (I think Korea and parts of China), I think most civilized human beings find that absolutely disgusting.
It seems that way since those who object are not used to eating such animals. I am not arguing that it is OK or not OK to eat; but I argue that it is a cultural and psychological issue as well as a matter of conscience.

As for your religion, I am also aware that it has absolutely no dietary laws whatsoever.
The most obvious reason for this is that rules and regulations regarding diet were not given to non Jews, which are called Gentiles. The only laws that are closely related to the Jewish laws are the laws that were given to Noah, which are ofter called the Noahchide or the Noahide laws.

Our religion, however, preaches that what you eat has a major impact on your soul and your faith, which is why pork is definitely forbidden.
There is nothing like that in the Torah or any any other part of the Bible. Your soul is strictly influenced by your spirit and conscience. What you eat has no bearing on that at all. If it did, then a Twinkie would corrupt your soul since it is classified as junk food. Also, drinking more milk than your body needs would have some affect on your soul. Do you see how silly that sounds? Your prophet is really out of touch with reality.

We find that in places, (such as southern United States where I used to live), where pork is very common dish, obesity and sexual immorality prevail, especially among the african-american people there who love to eat pork and look at their state. 70% of them are born out of wedlock according to American health statistics, so you can see how such a simple thing like diet can effect your spiritual health. Why do you think God forbade pork in the first place in the Torah? It wasn't for nothing if you ask me.
Are you really that ignorant, or you just parroting your idiotic Islamic dogma onto us? You are gullible for anything while living in your Islamic bubble. The ban on pork and other foods had to do with separation, which is called holiness. Why the separation? Because God took the Israelites from among other pagans and gave them an unique identity. If you read the Bible, you will see where God tells the Israelites to do things differently so that they will be less inclined to practice customs like the Pagans. He was getting them to behave differently so that there was a less likely chance that they would engage in the evil activities of their neighbors. These differences would also show the pagan neighbors that the God of the Israelites was different than the gods they served. There is more to it than that, but this is the basic understanding that one can understand when reading certain OT passages. You have a lot to learn about the Bible. You think that you are so wise, but you can't be so wise since you are relying upon your Islamic dogma to rule your world. How about actually investigating the Bible by itself and asking honest questions from Jews and Christians to help you to get a better understanding. That may be too much to ask from people who are raised very early to believe in false ideas about the Bible and the People of the Book. It is too bad that your prophet didn't have the knowledge or understanding to state correct facts.

If what we eat affects our souls, then what are Muslims eating that causes them to go ballistic and kill people who are Muslims and those who are called infidels? What causes Muslims to go underground and violate the commandments of Allah when they hold private sex parties, perform female circumcisions, do honor killings, and other things that a more civilized West is vehemently against? What foods and/or drinks are then responsible for your immoralities?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Archangelus

Regular Member
Jan 30, 2007
345
22
34
North West England
✟23,376.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Labour
the foremost of which is "thou shalt have no other God before Me". The very first law which christianity breaks with its trinity.

I would also like to point out some Christians don't believe in the Trinity, I would also like to point out that Christians are Monotheistic. All Christians believe in One God! Christians believe there are three aspects to that God The Father, Son and Holy Spirit but it is One God. The Father is not the son or the spirit and the son is not the father or the spirit but they are all One God. Without understanding basic Christian Beliefs and teachings and explanations of those teachings I wouldnt criticise it. You sound like you have seriously misinterpeted Christian Dogma.

Your churches are empty and your casinos and bars are full, whereas are mosques are filled beyond capacity, not once a week, but on daily basis five times a day. All of this is visual testimony to those who can see the truth.

This is hillarious there are many sociological reasons why there has been an upsurgance in Islam that has nothing necissarily to do with truth. For example aftert 9/11 people wanted to show others that Islam is peace. Which I whole heartedly agree with. In the same way when Catholic terrorists the IRA bombed places there was an increase in Catholicism because people wanted to show that the IRA were not truely catholic and that Catholicism isnt that bad. It isnt necissarily about the 'truth' Islam claims to have. One religion should not be valued over another we need to work together and create harmony.
 
Upvote 0

WarriorAngel

I close my eyes and see you smile
Site Supporter
Apr 11, 2005
73,951
10,060
United States Pennsylvania
Visit site
✟597,590.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
After a person dies and is buried, he enters the grave, and the life of the grave, which is a sort of middle place between this life and the afterlife, known as the Barzakh (which means partition). This is basically the life of the grave. The angels come to the person in the grave and ask him three questions i) who is your Lord ii) what is your religion? and iii) who is your prophet? The correct answers to all these questions are i) Allaah ii) Islaam iii) Muhammad.

Whatever is in a person's heart will manifest itself in his answer (so there's no way of cheating in this test)

The grave will be like a taste of what is to come. For the believer it will become like a garden, a taste of paradise, illuminated and comfortable. For the unbeliever and sinful people, it will be a place of punishment, the grave will squeeze them tightly, they will see frightening serpents and other horrors.

Than, on the day of resurrected, all human beings will be resurrected. They will be judged by Allaah and taken to either Heaven or Hell.
Ok, and where did this teaching come from?
Seems more modern than the Muhammad of 625 AD.

I see alot of Christianity in some aspects.
But Muhammad lived during the time of Nestorian heresy and he caravaned in their vicinity.
It is highly probable that everything he learned of Christianity stemmed from that sect.
Who were shunned by the Church on account of their false teachings.

Its interesting to note.

Also - going back to Genesis, the first book of the Bible, God set up His angel to protect Heaven from humanity - of which would not be allowed to go there until it would be opened...by He Himself, because no one born from the first parents would be able to cleanse us of our sins.

Its false premise to assume anyone goes to Paradise, Heaven or otherwise if God Himself had not yet opened it.

SO how does the Muslim society believe in Heaven, but the Jews are still awaiting for the gates to be opened? Looks like a borrowing from the Christian faith.

Dead sea scrolls are evidence of the ancient world and that the Bible was NOT corrupted.
Of course revision has to play a part in setting up a new religion or it would fail from the start.

Muhammad, however; didnt take into account that God would preserve His word for the generation of our times to PROOVE nothing changed...and the Bible has maintained the truths.

Surely - if Muhammad was a prophet - he would have prophesied this event to let you all know that this would be uncovered - since it was his claim God gave him prophecies.
And if God gave him to know the Bible was corrupted...this would have been top of the list.

Prophets gave accounts to the Messiah [not self gain] - and the fulfilment of the Law.
Jesus said clearly - that others after Him would be false - and would show signs to fool even the elect.

If Muhammad was a true prophet - Jesus would have mentioned that.
The Church would have taught it. Jesus said HE was the fulfilment of the Law.

Jesus didnt come to decieve those He loved - but save them.

The Laws of Jesus - are the Laws of His Father - Who is God.
And those Laws require self giving and love and humility.
All of which Muhammad taught the opposite of.

I have never seen a prophecy from Muhammad that would be used for the salvation of the soul. Altho followers try to bend the chewed up mess as a baby - but science has already refuted that with the technology we have now. So some live off the idea of the 70's and the man made distortion that babies are blobs.
They are not chewed up, in fact they dont really look anything the faux scientist reported a baby looks like in stages - because as i said - that was already refuted.

Ppl should check the genuine studies of science to see this.
 
Upvote 0

WarriorAngel

I close my eyes and see you smile
Site Supporter
Apr 11, 2005
73,951
10,060
United States Pennsylvania
Visit site
✟597,590.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم was receiving revelation condemning the pagan idols of the Arabs, Lat, Manna, and Uzza. There were both believers and idol-worshippers in the crowd listening to the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم

Suddenly satan himself appeared and began praising these idols, and it is said that satan made his voice sound like that of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم so these verses which satan proclaimed are known as the "Satanic verses".



The Quraan never said Mary is part of the trinity, rather it said that the Christians worship Mary and Jesus, which they do (especially Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Christians).
Mary is NOT part of the Trinity.
Nor do we worship her in any form.
She is venerated and honored as Jesus Himself honored His Mother according to the Ten Commandments of the Law.

She became the New Eve, so says the writers of the beginning of the Church.
Mary is venerated. Not worshipped.
:thumbsup: That's great you understand that.
See even an athiest knows this. :)
Alhamdulillaah, He has answered many of my prayers and continues to answer my prayers. I would say the best prayer Allaah has answered for me thus far, and keep in mind i'm still quite young, going to be 21 years soon, so if I live long by the permission of Allaah, I hope He will answer many more of my prayers that I will have, but the best prayer Allaah has answered for me is that I prayed He give me wisdom and knowledge of the Quraan and by the grace of Allaah He has indeed given me and continues to give me. I mention that this is the best prayer answered because it was the thing I most desired, and Allaah fulfilled it.

I have had many problems and conflicts in life, and each time I turned to Allaah He took away these problems. They were problems I was having in school, I won't mention to many details, except that Allah indeed took away these problems as soon as I turned to Him, pinning all my hopes on Him alone.

What do you make of my prayers being answered?
How about the prayers that helped with conversions, or miracles of physical ailments that could have been fatal?

How about the Lourdes Grotto? Or Fatima?
70,000 witnesses who saw and felt the sun drop to the earth within seconds it was back in place...
How about the rain that soaked them, and after this event everyone was dry?
How about 70,000 witnesses??

Have you heard about these events? I am curious.
 
Upvote 0

HumbleSiPilot77

Senior Contributor
Jan 4, 2003
10,040
421
Arizona
✟27,775.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Dogs are unclean animals, even scientifically its proven their saliva is very unhygenic. This is why its not allowed to keep them except for guarding livestock or for hunting or these kinds of legitimate reasons. Keeping them as "pets" is definitely something sinful in Islaam.
This is absolutely a flawed logic which doesn't explain its reasoning. So "cats" have "hygienic" saliva? Even human being are known to have vast number of different bacteria in their saliva, they are "unhygienic"? It is also known that Muhammad had issues with dogs and hence this nonsensical ritual muslims follow without reasoning.
I am aware that in some countries, dog meat is a delicacy, (I think Korea and parts of China), I think most civilized human beings find that absolutely disgusting.
What is being said here is that Koreans and part of Chinese are below this "civilized" standard...How shameful to be ethnocentric like that...
As for your religion, I am also aware that it has absolutely no dietary laws whatsoever. Our religion, however, preaches that what you eat has a major impact on your soul and your faith, which is why pork is definitely forbidden. We find that in places, (such as southern United States where I used to live), where pork is very common dish, obesity and sexual immorality prevail, especially among the african-american people there who love to eat pork and look at their state. 70% of them are born out of wedlock according to American health statistics, so you can see how such a simple thing like diet can effect your spiritual health. Why do you think God forbade pork in the first place in the Torah? It wasn't for nothing if you ask me.
Bold claims that can not be supported by any available scientific data! It is ludicrous and unscientific to even suggest that sexual immorality, and non-marital relationships in southern states are connected to consuming pork. If pork meat is scientifically examined and evaluated to obtain nutritional data, the ingredients are already available by many other dairy and veggie products. Now of course logic comes back and bites this reasoning in its rear because those who consume the same ingredients are suggested to be prone to sexual immorality and obesity. On the other topic, pork had been forbidden to Jews due to sanitary reasons of the era and non-Jewish consumption of pork, by abstaining from pork Jews were distinguished by action compared to non-Jews.
 
Upvote 0

HumbleSiPilot77

Senior Contributor
Jan 4, 2003
10,040
421
Arizona
✟27,775.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
That's a lie. From the very beginning, Christianity had major differences. Reading the New Testament we even see those differences among the twelve disciples themselves. We see contradictory portrait of Jesus in the four "gospels", one portrays him as a Jewish rabbi, another as a demigod.
I am sorry but some people's ignorance doesn't make other people liars. If fruitful discussion is desired, then I suggest you address your opponents in this thread properly and respectfully. If we look at the topic, "reading" the New Testament seems to resolve the problems for this individual. First he claims that these Scriptures are corrupted, but then he builds his case over these Scriptures. Intellectually dishonest but yet bold. NT accounts in actuality doesn't clearly address the individual differences of Christ's disciples. They do appear engaged in dialogue with their Master, however there is NO contradiction between them. The portrait of Christ given to us through the Apostles who wrote the gospels clearly indicate that they addressed their gospels to difference audiences at different times and places. Gospel harmonization is still intact even though St. John refers to Christ as the Word of God or St. Matthew's gospel refer to Him Son of Man, Rabbi reference only comes from those appear in the Gospels, as a method of respectful salutation. There is no argument worth considering here.
The early Christians were divided into numerous sects, the followers of Paul, what modern western scholars call the "proto-orthodox",
Another misconception based on the term addressed by one scholar who is actually agnostic, hiw views actually ignore the Tradition of the Christian Church that was passed on by different means, either through patristic or oral sources.
I highly suggest you read Barrie Wilson's How Jesus Became Christian
Wilson should have read more widely, because he makes one enormous error after another. Among them:

He claims that during Jesus' lifetime "Judaism was put...on the defensive" (p 17) because of cult of Mithris. False. If he had done some research he would discover the Mithric cult developed after 100 AD.

He claims Judaism was put on the 'defensive' because "it did not possess a robust sense of the afterlife" (p 17). False. Only the Sadducees, about 2% of the population at the time, did not believe in an afterlife. By the time of Second Temple Judaism, the vast majority of the Jews believed in a very robust afterlife. Has he never read Maccabees?

He argues, against all recent scholarship, that Second Temple Jews were 'Hellenized" (p 25). The most important book on the subject is Martin Hengel's 'Judaism and Hellenism'. Hengel pointed out that the threat of hellenization had made Second Temple Jews more, not less, religious. They became fiercely monotheistic. And you would think that Wilson would have noticed that the Second Temple Jews had two bloody wars with Rome some decades after the crucifixion. Surely anyone, noting those two wars that brought utter ruin to the Jews, might have guessed that Second Temple Jews were less than hellenized. But not Wilson, apparently.

He actually thinks that "Jesus' desperate cry...'my God, My God, why have you forsaken me'" was Jesus' realization that the Kingdom would not materialize. Jesus was quoting Psalm 22, one of the most popular of psalms in his day. It also states, 'They have pierced my hands and my feet...for my clothing they cast lots'. The psalm ends in a note of triumph for God, another point escaping Wilson.

Incredibly, he insists that "Jesus was an orthodox Jew" (p 95). Has he never read the New Testament? Why does he think all those Pharisees called him a blasphemer? Jesus touched lepers, ate without washing his hands, forgave sins, threw moneychangers out of the temple, made Pharisees furious with his nonorthodox statements, including claiming to be God Himself, and, as a result, many demanded his death.

Wilson thinks the Ebionites were the inheritors of the James/Jesus group. He forgets to mention to Ebionites were Gnostic heretics with a great many odd beliefs, most of which appear to have nothing to do with Judaism.

I laughed out loud at Wilson's irritated question, "What happened to Jesus' demand that his followers practice a pattern of righteousness stricter than that observed by the Pharisees" (p 105). Right, as if telling his followers never to remarry after a divorce (something no other religion in history had asked for), insisting that you forgive everyone no matter what the offense, and saying you are never to lust in your heart can't be called harder than anything before. In all instances except the legalisms, Christianity was much, much stricter.

"Paul was a Hellenized Jew" (p 109) he argues, who was familiar with the "beliefs and practices of the mystery religions" (p 110). This is an old argument. Many scholars believed it...around 1900 AD. When it became known as the 'History of Religions' theory in biblical scholarship. It is now utterly refuted. Two modern books that cover this theory and why it was discarded are "The Gospel and the Greeks" by Nash and "The Jesus Legend" by Eddy and Boyd. Among the many reasons this theory was discarded was that the mystery religions only arrived after the 1st century, the only exception being the Orphics. At any rate, this theory is now considered so dead and gone that I find it utterly amazing that he could make this claim with a straight face.

Then there's his main thesis. About that, where do I begin? It's like a huge knot with thousands of strings hanging out. There's so much to pull on I hardly know where to begin.

Wilson says there were two Jesus movements, "two separate religions" (p 148) one started by Paul. Then where did the Christians Paul was sent to persecute come from? 'Ediokon' and 'eporthoun' are the words Paul used to describe his persecution, and both indicate harsh, even violent action against the early Christians. But why if the religion hadn't been invented yet? It makes no sense.

And if Paul simply invented a new mystery religion, why did he call pagan gods 'demons'? It's not as if mystery religions were exclusive; you could belong to 20 at one time if you liked. Why did he forbid Christians to eat the meat that came from animals sacrificed to pagan gods?

Besides, scholars have shown through textual evidence that, among other places, 1 Cor 15:3f is proof of an early creed. This creed was created probably a decade or more earlier than any of Paul's epistles. The creed proclaims Jesus God and Messiah. Where the heck did that come from if Paul created Christianity? Where did the 'traditions' Paul keeps talking about come from?

Wilson claims Paul's "was a Hellenistic religion with very little--if any--Jewish content" ( 125). Talk about false! Paul's epistles are drenched, soaked in Jewish culture and, even more, in Jewish scripture. Practically every other sentence refers to a Jewish concept or is a quotation from the Old Testament. I cannot imagine how Wilson could read the epistles and claim there is "no Jewish content". This has got to be the single most ignorant and telling statement Wilson makes, and perhaps the most easily refutable statement I have ever read.

Wilson says Jesus was just an orthodox Jew who wanted to overthrow the Romans. Funny how every single statement in the New Testament argues against this. The resurrection! The miracles! Blessed are the peacemakers! And let's not forget forgive your enemy seventy times seven! Because forgiving your enemy forever would have been of no help in overthrowing the Romans.

Thousands and thousands of people who knew Jesus were still alive when Paul was writing, and even when the gospels were written. And nobody thought to ask one of these people any questions??? Even when Paul insists that he can give them the names of people who are still living who saw the Jesus alive after his crucifixion?

This was during a time when Roman roads made travel easier than at any time until our present day. No questions were asked? Nobody noticed this strange Paul going around telling lies that could be easily refuted? He met with Peter and others and talked to them and they didn't care he was lying? How could these untruths circulate during a time when Jesus' relatives were still alive? Wilson's theory, again, makes no sense at all.

For that matter, why would Paul want to go around telling lies, when there was clearly no benefit in it? Paul himself says he was beaten again and again, nearly died, and was hounded from place to place, nearly starved, etc. A lot of trouble for some mild Hellenistic mystery religion.

If Wilson were correct and Christianity was yet another Hellenistic mystery religion, why were Jews persecuting them? Why were Romans sentencing "an immense multitude" to be burned alive? And why choose Christianity as your mystery religion when you were expected to give much of your income to charity, attend endless meetings singing hymns to God, never lust in your heart, and forgive your enemies? Isis would be much, much easier.

Then there's the fact that Wilson keeps insisting that James was just an orthodox Jew. Oh for pity's sake. Then why did the Jewish authorities stone him to death? So clearly, he wasn't just an orthodox Jew.

Among the other topics Wilson seems to know nothing about you can include his misunderstanding of covenant, of the kingdom, and of the honor/shame society of Second Temple Judaism.

Oh yes. And then there's the fact that, hilariously, Wilson lists Dan Brown of "Da Vinci Code" among his sources. One historian said of Brown's book that he managed the incredible: he got every single fact wrong, including the location of the bathrooms at the Louvre. Not exactly a source anybody else would rely on. Read more: www.amazon.com/review/R2DPVAFTN7PN0f
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Supreme
Upvote 0

Supreme

British
Jul 30, 2009
11,891
490
London
✟30,185.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Dressing modestly certainly is, as are 613 other laws, the foremost of which is "thou shalt have no other God before Me". The very first law which christianity breaks with its trinity.



Jesus observed the Torah, which is just as "rigourous" as the Islaamic laws, if not even more. So the point I am making is why you object to Islaam based on its rigourous laws, when according to you the Torah is also the word of God?



The Torah is also quite "physically demanding", yet you believe it is the Word of God, and the lifestyle which Jesus himself followed.





Numbers don't matter. Billions or maybe trillions of people have gone astray. Some prophets had absolutely no followers. Look how God dealt with the people of Noah, he drowned them all, and saved only Noah and a handful of his followers. Numbers have absolutely nothing to do with it. Christianity is the largest religion sure, but guidance has come through the Quraan and Sunnah, and Allaah will guide the sincere people to Islaam. A true believer is like a diamond among the rocks.

Also, notice how you mention Christianity dominates the world, whereas Jesus preached to be separate and isolated from this world, but instead to look forward to the coming kingdom of heaven. The bible says satan is the prince of this world. Many christians I know are converting to Islaam because they see that the most worldly and rich people happen to be the christians, whereas Jesus condemned being rich and worldliness. They see Islaam as a simple faith that preaches to live a righteous life, worship only One God, and never give precedence to worldly affairs over faith. Islaam in other words is a living religion, while christianity is spiritually dead. Your churches are empty and your casinos and bars are full, whereas are mosques are filled beyond capacity, not once a week, but on daily basis five times a day. All of this is visual testimony to those who can see the truth.

Christianity breaks no such law. Why are you embarassing yourself with such statements that you know nothing about? You're not going to convert anyone: everyone here is intelligent enough to know you're lying, whether it be intentional or unintentional.

The Torah is the word of God, but was created for the Jewish people thousands of years ago. Although not completely irrelevant, it is no more as venerated in Christianity than the Injeel (Gospel) is in Islam.

Allah already has guided Christians; according to the Quran, we are the coveted 'People of the Book', and rightly recognized as monotheists- therefore, there is little point in converting, seeing as Allah will send the good Christians to heaven anyway.

There are rich Christians and poor Christians. There are rich Muslims and poor Muslims. So these Christians you apparantly 'know' that are 'converting to Islam' really have silly reasons why they are converting. Christianity too teaches you to live a righteous life (if not more so than Islam), teaches that there is one God and that world affairs should not come over faith. My church is anything but empty, a majority black charismatic church with a congregation of 200, and there's never enough seats. Sunday school is always a blessing so that people can sit down in chairs. Mosques are filled because many Muslim countries punish their civilians (that's right, you can actually face punishment) if they don't turn up. Islam may be a 'living religion', but is more a living religion of fear than love, which is the opposite of Christianity.
 
Upvote 0

HumbleSiPilot77

Senior Contributor
Jan 4, 2003
10,040
421
Arizona
✟27,775.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
There were also the Gnostics, the Ebionites, the Monophysites, the Arians, the Nestorians, the Marcionites, and the list goes on and on.
Similar to Sunnis, Shiites, Ahmadis, Alawis, Submitters, Zaidis, and on and on... See the hypocrisy of this argument is that it doesn't consider the reasons for the existence of these heretical groups in the history of early Christianity, and how they are distinguished from Orthodox Christianity.

Even today there are so many Christian denominations, just open your local phonebook you'll see different kinds of churches, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Christian scientists, Adventists, Unitarians, Oneness Pentecostals, and all kinds of evangelical churches, which are challening the mainstream churches and are growing by the day, while traditional churches like anglican, methodist, and catholic are losing their flocks.
Expression of religion and faith is not illegal. Anyone can start their own church according to their own interpretation. It is their deal with God. One can always go to the source even where the Scriptures come from, which is the Apostolic Church. However let me point out another mistake committed here, out of ignorance I must presume, JWs are actually the continuation of Arian heresy, they do not follow a new concept.
The difference between you asking your friend to pray for you is that your friend can hear you and is alive. Asking a dead person to pray for you is like asking an idol made out of wood or stone to pray for you...they simply cannot hear you. Read how your own bible condemns idol worship.
This statement undermines the existence of God and His sovereignty, His mysteries and His mercy. Dead persons are dead in physical body, but not in spirit. The argument presented here doesn't claim knowledge in the matter of afterlife except the islamic point of view while in the same time it doesn't explain why dead saints who are with God can not hear... Based on that unfounded notion, he then proceeds to resemble it to idol worship and then reminds that idol worship is forbidden. Unfortunately he misses that there is no worship going on here. We don't subscribe to such view and faulty logic. One charge made against it is that the saints in heaven cannot even hear our prayers, making it useless to ask for their intercession. However, this is not true. As Scripture indicates, those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth. This can be seen, for example, in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us. Some might try to argue that in this passage the prayers being offered were not addressed to the saints in heaven, but directly to God. Yet this argument would only strengthen the fact that those in heaven can hear our prayers, for then the saints would be aware of our prayers even when they are not directed to them! In any event, it is clear from Revelation 5:8 that the saints in heaven do actively intercede for us. We are explicitly told by John that the incense they offer to God are the prayers of the saints. Prayers are not physical things and cannot be physically offered to God. Thus the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God mentally. In other words, they are interceding.
Islaam teaches that God is under no compulsion to accept prayers from someone because that person is dear or beloved to Him. To give such kind of intercessory powers to someone is nothing but shirk.
Unfortunately it doesn't appear that the weight and importance of prayer for Christians is being grasped. It is not about who prays or intercedes, but it is about asking God's will. The Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us. Thus in Psalms 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do HIS WILL!" (Ps. 103:20-21). And in Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" (Ps. 148:1-2).
The pillars which represent the devil are not idols. Stoning is an act of rejection, not worship, in case you didn't know.
Touche! They are not idols but TOOLS! They are necessary to channel the act of rejection. I don't see muslims in hajj stoning their cars or indifferent buildings, structures. It is a ritual established for certain purposes that uses an object as its center.
Kissing is also not an act of worship (otherwise that means we worship whatever or whoever we kiss). The black stone which we kiss has no power to benefit or harm, it is nothing but a stone which has no power at all. The reason we kiss it is solely because the Prophet was found kissing it. Thus it is an act of imitation of the Prophet
Kissing clearly addressed here as a sign of veneration and respect. Christian veneration of icons are not any different.
The reason Christians get confused about this is because they fail to understand what constitutes an act of worship, and so they think that kissing something or someone means you are worshipping it!
Only ritualistic motions and acts based religions can dictate what constitutes worship and pin down a definition. That limits the freedom expression that proceeds from God to His Creation. Christians are known to prostrate, bow, clap hands, or even sing a song. The act of worship is a matter of the heart that longs for the Creator. But interestingly, if kissing something or someone doesn't mean you are worshiping it, then Christian veneration of icons and etc is already proven.
God not only prohibits substitution in worship, He prohibits accessory as well, which is why He says "I am the Lord your God, you shall have no other god besides me". Here the word besides doesn't mean "you shall not substitute any god in my place", ask any ordinary Christian, he will tell you it means "you shall not worship anything ALONGSIDE Me"
False. Such self-concocted interpretation disregards simple examples like Moses erecting the bronze snake in the Desert. It was a necessary accessory and a sacred object... It is ridiculous to even suggest that a Christian who uses icons in his worship and remembrance of God is considering the icons as other gods. The commandment here prohibits every species of mental idolatry, and all inordinate attachment to earthly and sensible things. As God is the fountain of happiness, and no intelligent creature can be happy but through him, whoever seeks happiness in the creature is necessarily an idolater; as he puts the creature in the place of the Creator, expecting that from the gratification of his passions, in the use or abuse of earthly things, which is to be found in God alone. The very first commandment of the whole series is divinely calculated to prevent man’s misery and promote his happiness, by taking him off from all false dependence, and leading him to God himself, the fountain of all good. No Christian worships an image. Christians worship God. We do not worship Icons, but we do venerate them. That means we show special respect for the Icons. We do this because the Icons are a way of joining us to the goodness and holiness of God and His Saints.
You claim to be an ex-Muslim yet you say that we believe Allaah is inside the shrine in Makka? I seriously doubt your claim to be an ex-Muslim based on this alone.
Then maybe you should start reading more carefully. Of course, everyone knows that Allah doesn't "reside" in the shrine. But that was a counter argument presented so that while encountering it, you could shoot yourself again in the foot with the unfortunate double standards. The shrines sole purpose is not DIRECTION but of remembrance.You make the connection though I doubt it.
Allaah is not inside His creation, all Muslims believe this. Allaah is above and beyond the heavens and the earth, His throne extends ABOVE the heavens and the earth.
His throne? Such an object to define that Allah sits on a "throne"?
The Kaaba is a building, you can say its like a temple dedicated to the worship of Allaah. It contains no images or idols. It is just a mosque and one of the shrines of Islaam. It marks the direction in which we are suppose to pray, just like in Judaism the Western Wall marks the direction in which they are suppose to pray, but no reasonable person suggests that Jews worship the Western Wall, it is merely a remnant of their temple dedicated to the worship of God, same like our Kaaba.
You partially answered your own question regarding veneration of holy objects. They are not worshiped, they are venerated because they relate to God, they are not god.
 
Upvote 0

HumbleSiPilot77

Senior Contributor
Jan 4, 2003
10,040
421
Arizona
✟27,775.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Read my above post about the question of "God can do anything".
Yes, doesn't really tell anything but struggles to belittle human in creation which from the moment of creation God considered incorrupt, and tries to relate that to the God's majesty defined by islamic standards... Christianity never taught that God's majesty ended through Incarnation. God didn't become any less through Christ.
As for Numbers 23:19, it consists of two kinds of statements, general and particular, in general God says He is not a man and not the son of a man, and than He makes a particular statement that He does not lie. It would be like me saying, "I am not a Christian that I eat pork". Here I am making two statements, one general and one particular. In general I am affirming that I am not a Christian, than in particular I am stating that I don't eat pork.
Sorry, doesn't matter how hard you try to spin around the biblical exegesis, the statements are connected not separated. One defines the other. In the same logical line, your unintelligent statement also confirms that you are a non-pork eating Christian. It can clearly be defined like that whether you try to confuse the statement with the use of a unnecessary personal pronoun. Regarding the verse, historically it talks about correcting the foregoing supposition of Balak that God could change his mind. Even the heathen would not allow that their supreme god could be caught in a falsity. God declines that corruptness can be attributed to Him. Therefore God's enemies are compelled to confess that his government is just, constant, and without change or repentance.
Your interpretation doesn't fit well with the context. Remember that this person who called Jesus as "Good teacher", after being explained by Jesus that only God is good, STOPPED REFERRING TO JESUS AS "GOOD", AND SIMPLY CALLED HIM "TEACHER" (Mark 10:20) Obviously it meant that this person didn't catch what Jesus was trying to say, unlike you some 2000 years later, you seem to know what Jesus really meant, unlike this person who was actually in his presence. Furthermore, why didn't Jesus rebuke this person and tell him "I didn't mean you have to stop calling me good teacher, I just mean that do you know that by calling me good teacher you are affirming that I am God, which I am?" Instead, the New Testament says: "Jesus looked at him and loved him." (Mark 10:21, NIV)
Utmost intellectual dishonesty. Let me start with this, if one's interpretation is deemed wrong, how do you claim to correct it? By asserting your opinion? The thing is there are thousands of logical reasons why the young man didn't refer to Him as "good teacher" the second time. One simple explanation is that he might have considered Christ's response as a rebuke. For the distraught state of the youth, then Christ is shown as "loving" Him. The fact of the matter is, you have no credibility to assert your understanding is better than anyone elses, because it is apparent that you approach the matter with utmost prejudice. You don't seem to answer the logical outcome.

1: Jesus claims only God is good.
2: Jesus claims to be good.
3: Therefore, Jesus claims to be God.

Is Jesus here rebuking the man for calling Him good and thereby denying His deity? No. Rather, He is using a penetrating question to push the man to think through the implications of his own words, to understand the concept of Jesus’ goodness and, most especially, the man’s lack of goodness. The young ruler ‘went away sad’ (Mark 10:22) because he realized that although he had devoted himself to keeping the commandments, he had failed to keep the first and greatest of the commandments—love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength (Matthew 22:37-38). The man’s riches were of more worth to him than God, and thus he was not ‘good’ in the eyes of God.

Jesus’ fundamental lesson here is that goodness flows not from a man’s deeds, but rather from God Himself. Jesus invites the man to follow Him, the only means of doing good by God’s ultimate standard. Jesus describes to the young ruler what it means to follow Him—to be willing to give up everything, thus putting God first. When one considers that Jesus is drawing a distinction between man’s standard of goodness and God’s standard, it becomes clear that following Jesus is good. The command to follow Christ is the definitive proclamation of Christ’s goodness. Thus, by the very standard Jesus is exhorting the young ruler to adopt, Jesus is good. And it necessarily follows that if Jesus is indeed good by this standard, Jesus is implicitly declaring His deity.

Such a claim makes perfect sense in light of the flow of Mark’s narrative with regards to the unfolding revelation of Jesus’ real identity. It is only before the High Priest in Mark 14:62 when the question of Jesus’ identity is explicitly clarified. The story of the rich young ruler is one in a sequence of stories designed to point readers toward Jesus’ self-understanding as the eternal, divine, incarnate Son of God.

God is nothing at all like man.
But Allah has a throne right?
I find you suggestion that God would strip Himself of His Heavenly glory and lower Himself (according to Paul even lower Himself before angels Hebrews 2:7) an absolutely repugnant blasphemy.
Whatever. I am not here to beg you adhere to Christian understanding of God and the purpose. Muhammad didn't understand it either, hence we got muslims deprived of the understanding of God's love and sacrifice...
Angels are a creation of God, God would never lower Himself beneath the rank of Angels.
Again with the islamic limits of God.
Islaam never gives the quality of "jealousy" to God, that comes from your religion (Exodus 20:5).
And dishonesty of using it to make your point comes from where?
 
Upvote 0

HumbleSiPilot77

Senior Contributor
Jan 4, 2003
10,040
421
Arizona
✟27,775.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Not liking dogs has nothing to do with it.
From Bukhari Vol. 4, #540
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle ordered that the dogs should be killed.
From Abu Dawud #2839
Abd Allah B. Mughaffal reported the apostle of Allah as saying: Were dogs not a species of creature I should command that they all be killed; but kill every pure black one.
The Hadith's note for #2839 says, "The prophet did not order the killing of all the dogs, for some are to be retained for hunting and watching. He ordered to kill the jet black ones. They might be more mischievous among them.
From Muslim #3814
Ibn Mughaffal reported: Allah's messenger ordered the killing of dogs and then said, "what is the trouble with them (the people of Medina? How dogs are nuisances to them (the citizens of Medina)? He then permitted keeping of dogs for hunting and (the protection of) herds. ...[and for] for the protection of cultivated land.
From Muslim #Number 055
Ibn Mughaffal reported: The Messenger of Allah ordered killing of the dogs, and then said: What about them, i. e. about other dogs? and then granted concession (to keep) the dog for hunting and the dog for (the security) of the herd, and said: When the dog licks the utensil, wash it seven times, and rub it with earth the eighth time.
From Muslim #3813
Abu Zubair heard Jabir Abdullah saying: Allah's messenger ordered us to kill dogs and we carried out this order so much so that we also killed the dog roaming with a women from the desert. Then Allah's apostle forbade their killing. He said: "It is your duty to kill the jet-black (dog) having two spots (on the eyes) for it is a devil.
The note for #3814 says,
"The Hadith gives us an idea why the prophet commanded to kill dogs. There must have been an excess of stray dogs and thus the danger of rabies in the city of Medina and its suburbs. The prophet therefore ordered to kill them. Later on when it was found that his Companions were killing them indiscriminately, he forbade them to do so and told them that only the ferocious beasts which were a source of danger to life should be killed. The word "Devil" in the Hadith clarifies this point. Here devil stands for ferocious.


These Hadith tell the story of Muhammad's order to kill dogs. Muhammad said he would like to have all dogs killed. He wanted them killed, NOT because packs of dogs were tormenting the citizens of Medina, but rather, because a puppy stopped the mighty angel Gabriel. Muhammad’s solution was to kill the dogs. He first said he wanted all dogs killed but then made exceptions for dogs that are used for farming, hunting, or watching (outside). Further, he ordered that all black dogs be killed and called them "a Satan".



Below are some brief questions and thoughts on Muhammad’s statements.
1) Prayer is annulled by a dog.
Why should a dog nullify prayer? What difference does it make if the dog is in front of you, or behind you? Jesus taught that God judges the heart, and the outward performance is irrelevant.
2) Angels do not enter a house wherein there is a dog.
Why would an angel be stopped by a puppy if he were on a mission from God? What power does this "unclean" characteristic possess to stop an angel?
3) Whoever keeps a dog, one Qirat of the reward of his good deeds is deducted daily,
Why would Allah double the punishment of dog ownership? And, how much exactly is 1 qirat in heavenly currency and what is it needed for? Is it a huge mountain of gold, silver, or diamonds? After all, if Allah is penalizing you for something, the thing he is taking away must have value to the owner.
As you may know, Islaam emphasizes purity very much, it is very important for Muslims to remain ritually pure, which is why we wash our hands before eating (without drying the hands), wash and dry the hands after eating, we offer prayers in state of ritual purity, we have to wash our entire body in a ritual bath known as ghusl if we become impure due to sexual intercourse or wet dream. Likewise another ritual is intinjaa, where we wash the private parts after relieving ourself from the toilet. So all of these purity laws are a core part of Islaamic spirituality. Thus coming into contact with unclean animals, such as dog or pig, falls under this category.
Man's filth can never be washed in the eyes of God. The actual filth comes from the heart not the rear end. That is the way we are created. Religious sanitary rituals doesn't clean the heart and the spirit. Bin Laden can take his gusl all he wants, his heart is evil. Handling animals and afterwards washing hands is not a religiously dictated requirement, anyone with common sense and knowledge would do so for simple health and sanitary reasons. So by washing your hands, you claim spiritual purity, I can only look at that with amazement.

Our Prophet did not have a personal dislike for dogs, except for one type of dog which is black and has a white spot on its head, because this is a demon-possessed dog that is a devil and this type of dog was exterminated from Arabia.
Many traditions note that he had a rather "unpleasant" encounter with a dog when he was young. He appears full of hatred and rage against dogs because he simply feared them. That black dog with a white spot... Can't believe people hold on to such nonsense. Do they tell you what breed was the devil dog?
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.